Offseason Part 2 - Lets the Rumors & Action Begin

[Tnetennba]

22 minutes ago, fathom said:

Sheets and Engel platoon, Vaughn is primary DH and plays some 1B and LF (and I know this wasn’t asked to me)

AV is the better defender.  I sure hope its Vaughn in RF if they don't sign anyone.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

AV is the better defender.  I sure hope its Vaughn in RF if they don't sign anyone.

Don't see how you came to that conclusion. There's not even close to a big enough sample size of either one's defense in RF to determine that.

[fathom]

19 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said:

The guy played a hell of an OF last year for someone who never played out there. 

With some seasoning, I see no reason why he can't develop into a formidable everyday defensive OF.   

Playable in LF, god awful in RF

[Focurjay]

So, as this roster is constructed right now, the White Sox are more likely winning the division again (assuming no more Twins trades and big FA signings) but would fail miserably again in the playoffs. Good lord

[Bob Sacamano]

4 minutes ago, Focurjay said:

So, as this roster is constructed right now, the White Sox are more likely winning the division again (assuming no more Twins trades and big FA signings) but would fail miserably again in the playoffs. Good lord

You never know in a short series but yeah, they can run into a couple good righties at the top of a rotation again and be doomed.

[KBX]

3 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

I think this is such a good point.  I don't want to do a couple of years of greatness...I want the White Sox to extend their window as long as possible and as sad as it may be for some...money matters.   We are top five payroll, near $200 million right now.   Giving 4/$80 for Conforto or Castellanos is financially risky.  Over time you have to balance the higher paid old guys with the young cheap guys and the old meh guys.  The $20 million you pay this year for Conforto is fine...but it ties your hands for 23,24 and 25.   As I watch Hahn I think that is what he is doing.  I don't want to see the team unable to sign Gio long term in 2024, or TA in 2025 because we are weighted down by the Conforto contract.   Especially because I don't think Conforto will be materially better in RF (fWar) than the Hydra...but will cost $15 million more a year.   Plus the Hydra gets valuable experience and AB's.  Because they have been prudent with contracts when the trade deadline comes they can swoop in and make a big move from a floundering team.  

As for the stupid bullpen spending (by most on here) last year five of the six teams teams with the best bullpens (by fWar) went to the playoffs and Seattle won 90 games but didn't go. Last year the White Sox were #2 in relief fWar...and you had Matt Foster, Evan Marshall and Ryan Burr pitch in a 100 games with a FIP around 5.  You replace those innings with Graveman, Kimbrel and Kelly and you can't get excited by that??  We have a seriously stacked bullpen...and yes maybe one or two will go down...but man Bummer should be better, Kimbrel better, Crochet better...and percolating arms in the minors.              

 

3 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

They are fifth in payroll (a figure I've been predicting for a year).   They have LOTS of good players and not a single bad contract.   As some players get more expensive, some (Keuchel, Kimbrel, Jose) drop off.  That's really smart and allows you to keep your window going.   If Colas or Cespedes are your RF next year (a suggestion I have been called an idiot for suggesting) will cost you nothing.  You can't pay everyone (well the Dodgers can) which means you have to make smart choices as you go.   Not spending a fortune in RF this year might be one of them.   It's not sexy to be prudent but a long term winning team is very sexy.   

 

Yeah, I'm not gonna analyze things like there is no logic what's going on. Right now Hahn is banking on the young stars coming into their own and aside from that he's trying to put together a shutdown bullpen that is also deep. We just don't have access to their long term strategic thinking. Guys like Robert, Jimenez, Moncada, Anderson, Cease, Kopech can all potentially be here for a long time, and you'd like the FO to be in a good spot to replenish in FA the older guys who are gonna be dropping in the next couple years. It's also important to get good production from guys like Vaughn and Sheets who don't cost you anything. I'm not necessarily excited to see those guys traded for #3-4 starting pitchers..

[pcq]

Recurring theme of the Rick Hahn era is a lot of moves that made the team weaker. Not all but many meh decisions. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

12 minutes ago, Focurjay said:

So, as this roster is constructed right now, the White Sox are more likely winning the division again (assuming no more Twins trades and big FA signings) but would fail miserably again in the playoffs. Good lord

The Sox just need some of the core young pieces to stay on the field and be what we all think they should be especially Eloy and Robert. That would be a huge boost to the offense. Moncada finding some HR's from both sides of the plate would help too. Not asking for 30 from him but 20+ would be welcome. Starting pitching would be helped tremendously by another step forward from Cease and a Kopech showing he can raise his level much higher. Vaughn could improve greatly too and I think anyone would welcome Sheets if he was just as good this year as he was last year over a full season if they can figure out a way to get both 500 AB.

Edited March 15, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[pcq]

Lucas has beefed up and Berger will get a look at 2B per Rick. 

[ShandyMan]

2 minutes ago, pcq said:

Lucas has beefed up and Berger will get a look at 2B per Rick. 

Burger bout to be moving around like old Jeff Kent

[caulfield12]

15 minutes ago, KBX said:

 

 

Yeah, I'm not gonna analyze things like there is no logic what's going on. Right now Hahn is banking on the young stars coming into their own and aside from that he's trying to put together a shutdown bullpen that is also deep. We just don't have access to their long term strategic thinking. Guys like Robert, Jimenez, Moncada, Anderson, Cease, Kopech can all potentially be here for a long time, and you'd like the FO to be in a good spot to replenish in FA the older guys who are gonna be dropping in the next couple years. It's also important to get good production from guys like Vaughn and Sheets who don't cost you anything. I'm not necessarily excited to see those guys traded for #3-4 starting pitchers..

How many times has JR given contract long-term extensions to pitchers with TJ in their past?   I guess Lynn, but the limit has always been three years since Danks.  That's going to work against Gio, Cease and Kopech.  Not sure even Lynn happens without LaRussa.

[Capn12]

4 minutes ago, pcq said:

Lucas has beefed up and Berger will get a look at 2B per Rick. 

If we're willing to let Burger learn at 2B, that makes signing Josh Harrison even more asinine. I wish Hahn would get over his idea that "signing a lot of projects is better than spending all your money on a star".

[ptatc]

2 minutes ago, staxxington said:

Burger bout to be moving around like old Jeff Kent

Hopefully.  Kent was a passable 2B

[Balta1701]

18 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

The Sox just need some of the core young pieces to stay on the field and be what we all think they should be especially Eloy and Robert. That would be a huge boost to the offense. Moncada finding some HR's from both sides of the plate would help too. Not asking for 30 from him but 20+ would be welcome. Starting pitching would be helped tremendously by another step forward from Cease and a Kopech showing he can raise his level much higher. Vaughn could improve greatly too and I think anyone would welcome Sheets if he was just as good this year as he was last year over a full season if they can figure out a way to get both 500 AB.

Yes, it would be ideal if everyone on the team got better and stayed healthy. Universal improvement and health would definitely make up fit the loss of Rodon.

[ptatc]

1 minute ago, Capn12 said:

If we're willing to let Burger learn at 2B, that makes signing Josh Harrison even more asinine. I wish Hahn would get over his idea that "signing a lot of projects is better than spending all your money on a star".

If Burger is at 2B, the Sox have 2 guys with versatility to play nearly everywhere on the field. Dramatically cuts down on the number of backups they need. The non-starters would be Harrison, Garcia, Engel and a catcher currently. 

[Balta1701]

5 minutes ago, Capn12 said:

If we're willing to let Burger learn at 2B, that makes signing Josh Harrison even more asinine. I wish Hahn would get over his idea that "signing a lot of projects is better than spending all your money on a star".

Turn it the other way. Hahn just spent $5.5 million to show you how little confidence he has in Burger at 2b.

[Capn12]

Just now, Balta1701 said:

Turn it the other way. Hahn just spent $5.5 million to show you how little confidence he has in Burger at 2b.

[ptatc]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Turn it the other way. Hahn just spent $5.5 million to show you how little confidence he has in Burger at 2b.

In the other thread, it shows an interesting bonus scale for ABs. It is not really structured as a starter contract.

[iWiN4PreP]

WHY IS MLB SO SLOW RIGHT NOW I NEED SIGNINGS AND TRADES

[Harold's Leg Lift]

1 hour ago, CentralChamps21 said:

@Harold's Leg Lift any idea if/when we might see the next move?

Nope.  Waiting for Hahn to close a deal like everyone else.  

[SoCalChiSox]

1 minute ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Nope.  Waiting for Hahn to close a deal like everyone else.  

Which deal is he closer on....SP or RF?

[southsider2k5]

54 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Sheets is far worse defensively than Vaughn.. right?

 

If you hit up fangraphs defensive ratings and sort is for LF with at least 700 innings, Andrew Vaughn ranks 4th out of 15 qualified players.  Expand that out to 300 innings and he is still 15th out of 45. 

Statistically,  Andrew Vaughn was a significantly above average defensive LF.

It's probably a little harder to get a good reading on Sheets because of SSS, but he had -32 and -35 UZRs in LF and RF respectively, compared to 0.5 and -20.2 for Vaughn.

So far, Sheets looks Fisk in LF bad in the OF, and Vaughn looks above average vs his peers.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

1 minute ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Which deal is he closer on....SP or RF?

Yes

[iWiN4PreP]

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[Tnetennba]

6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

If you hit up fangraphs defensive ratings and sort is for LF with at least 700 innings, Andrew Vaughn ranks 4th out of 15 qualified players.  Expand that out to 300 innings and he is still 15th out of 45. 

Statistically,  Andrew Vaughn was a significantly above average defensive LF.

It's probably a little harder to get a good reading on Sheets because of SSS, but he had -32 and -35 UZRs in LF and RF respectively, compared to 0.5 and -20.2 for Vaughn.

So far, Sheets looks Fisk in LF bad in the OF, and Vaughn looks above average vs his peers.

This would seem to back up the eye test quite well.  Vaughn made good plays in LF, but his lack of range and poor reads really showed in RF.  And Sheets was significantly worse at both positions.  It baffles me why people think the pair would make even a passable RF platoon.