Jack Parkman Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 3 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said: Well, the Samardzija trade alone cost 24 years of control over Bassitt, Phegley, Semien, and Ravelo. It cost some ~25 FWAR to pickup Samardzjia. It also extended the decade of shit we all got to enjoy while we were "mired in mediocrity." So yeah, I'm not excited to see KW/RH get robbed, again. In any case, none of what Oakland has on offer projects to be that much better than what can be gotten in FA. You can't find a pitcher of Montas' caliber in FA. If you're going to argue for Rodon, he's not durable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-Gun Pete Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Even if Kopech lasts 140 innings, you’ll be in about the same spot as last year with Rodon, a long break down the stretch. Imagine the season went the same as last year and Lynn had some September knee problems, for a recent example. Right now, the rotation would be Giolito, Cease, Lopez, Keuchel, Lambert, with a double header in there somewhere too. Hope there’s a big lead in that division. This. This is why I hope they prioritize getting ~2-ish fWAR and ~120 IP in a FA long man/SP over RF. Well, this, and the fact that all of MLB will be after SPs, making it all the more important to solve first, IMO. There's competition for OF solutions in FA, but not the league-wide "Great Game" in play for SPs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 3 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said: In any case, none of what Oakland has on offer projects to be that much better than what can be gotten in FA. I would easily take Bassitt over any of the free agents still available. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polar Bear Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 4 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said: Has Kopech really proven that he's capable of starting and staying healthy at the MLB level? I mean, of his 48 appearances in MLB, only 8 were starts; if memory serves, at least one of those 8 was as an opener. Hes also been significantly injured in both of his MLB seasons. Relying on Kopech to deliver 150 injury-free IP is shortening your margin for error. Adding a ~2-ish fWAR SP/long man adds that bit of depth that covers you from injury, ineffectiveness, or workload management. As it stands, you've got to squint to hope that Lopez is fixed, and that's about it, in terms of SP depth. For a number 4 starter its not. The Houston Astros had 4 pitcher pitch less than 160 innings. Atlanta has 3 less than 130. I think most of you are delusional about how many innings a good pitcher pitches in 2022. The game has changed. Top tier pitchers are topping 170 (only 29 did last season). A solid pitcher will be between 140-170 (where Kopech will hopefully be this season) Hell i think Kopech can come close to matching Peralta from last year (an ACE in today's game) and he only pitched 144 innings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-Gun Pete Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Just now, Jack Parkman said: You can't find a pitcher of Montas' caliber in FA. If you're going to argue for Rodon, he's not durable. We don't have the ammo for Montas, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 1 minute ago, SoxBlanco said: I would easily take Bassitt over any of the free agents still available. Same 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 20 minutes ago, Polar Bear said: 1. Vaughn was horrible mismanaged 2. Kopech isn't Vaughn who had never played above what low A or rookie ball 3. You guys are the most pessimistic site in baseball. Why no one looks at comparable or anything So you think TB fans are freaking out that they have to count on Rasmussen to be what their number 2 or 3 and throw 150+ when he has never in his life thrown more than like 80 professionally. We are talking about a major league starting pitcher who was just used out of the pen to manage his innings This is baseball in 2022, SP just need to go 4-6 innings and thats it. Kopech can do that. I'm more worried about the decline of Gilito/Lynn and Cease's blowups then I am about anything Kopech related It's not pessimism it's reality. Last year I was saying very early on that once Rodon was dominant that the Sox needed to slow their roll on him because he was getting too many innings and the Sox would need him in the playoffs and it all turned out to be true. By the middle of July he had pitched 6 or more innings 8 times. After that he averaged less than 5 innings per start and was burnt out when they needed him most. Now Kopech has some built in advantage that Rodon didn't in that he pitched 69 innings last year while Rodon pitched 7.2. If you're going to say I'm pessimistic then I can say you are overly optimistic and I wish I could share that with you. I am certainly not willing to say how many innings Kopech pitches next year but I'm hoping it's around 100 innings during the season and he's fresh for another 30 innings in the playoffs if he has a good enough season to warrant it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southwest Sider Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Pretty awesome that were talking about trading for guys from Oakland that we traded to them many moons on deals we lost by a landslide. Cant wait for them to turn Stiever into a TOR starter and we trade for him 4 years from now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-Gun Pete Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 4 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said: I would easily take Bassitt over any of the free agents still available. Bassitt's 33, and will cost trade assets. Kikuchi and Rodon project similarly to Bassitt, are younger, and cost only FA cash. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said: Bassitt's 33, and will cost trade assets. Kikuchi and Rodon project similarly to Bassitt, are younger, and cost only FA cash. Kikuchi has had one good half season in MLB, and has otherwise been awful. Rodon is unreliable, and before you mention him, so is Kershaw at this stage of his career. Edited March 11, 2022 by Jack Parkman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polar Bear Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: It's not pessimism it's reality. Last year I was saying very early on that once Rodon was dominant that the Sox needed to slow their roll on him because he was getting too many innings and the Sox would need him in the playoffs and it all turned out to be true. By the middle of July he had pitched 6 or more innings 8 times. After that he averaged less than 5 innings per start and was burnt out when they needed him most. Now Kopech has some built in advantage that Rodon didn't in that he pitched 69 innings last year while Rodon pitched 7.2. If you're going to say I'm pessimistic then I can say you are overly optimistic and I wish I could share that with you. I am certainly not willing to say how many innings Kopech pitches next year but I'm hoping it's around 100 innings during the season and he's fresh for another 30 innings in the playoffs if he has a good enough season to warrant it. There is something wrong with Rodon. I don't think it had to do with innings it has to do with his motion and throwing across his body. He was breaking no matter how many innings he pitched Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-Gun Pete Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 5 minutes ago, Polar Bear said: Hell i think Kopech can come close to matching Peralta from last year (an ACE in today's game) and he only pitched 144 innings. PTATC thinks it'll be 24 or so starts. I'm more inclined to trust his experience with this. In any case, leaving it up to a guy in Kopech who has only 8 starts to his name is unnecessarily risky, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 9 minutes ago, Polar Bear said: For a number 4 starter its not. The Houston Astros had 4 pitcher pitch less than 160 innings. Atlanta has 3 less than 130. I think most of you are delusional about how many innings a good pitcher pitches in 2022. The game has changed. Top tier pitchers are topping 170 (only 29 did last season). A solid pitcher will be between 140-170 (where Kopech will hopefully be this season) Hell i think Kopech can come close to matching Peralta from last year (an ACE in today's game) and he only pitched 144 innings. The Astros had 6 starters make 20 starts last year, a 7th swingman make 9 more, and Verlander was hurt and eating salary. The Braves had 36 starts made by people outside their top 5. Rather than a 6th starter they moved them around. Which of these works for the White Sox? 20 starts for Lopez and 9 for Lambert, or 36 starts among Lopez, Lambert, Stiever? Both of which have full workloads for Keuchel? These all seem unpleasant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polar Bear Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 1 minute ago, Two-Gun Pete said: PTATC thinks it'll be 24 or so starts. I'm more inclined to trust his experience with this. In any case, leaving it up to a guy in Kopech who has only 8 starts to his name is unnecessarily risky, IMO. Peralta started 27 so I'd say thats close. Also will depend if they use a 6 man rotation or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 4 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said: Bassitt's 33, and will cost trade assets. This has nothing to do with what you said. Sure, it means a lot when deciding whether or not to make the acquisition, but I was simply responding to your comment that what Oakland has to offer isn’t much better than what we can get in free agency. Quote Kikuchi and Rodon project similarly to Bassitt, This has everything to do with what you said, and I don’t agree. I would easily take Bassitt over both of them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-Gun Pete Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said: Kikuchi has had one good half season in MLB, and has otherwise been awful. Kikuchi projects to ~2-ish fWAR on Fangraphs; Bassitt projects to 2.5-ish. Kikuchi costs only money; Bassitt will cost a reaming by Oakland, plus cash. I'd take my chances with cash only over KW/RH matching wits with Oakland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polar Bear Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: The Astros had 6 starters make 20 starts last year, a 7th swingman make 9 more, and Verlander was hurt and eating salary. The Braves had 36 starts made by people outside their top 5. Rather than a 6th starter they moved them around. Which of these works for the White Sox? 20 starts for Lopez and 9 for Lambert, or 36 starts among Lopez, Lambert, Stiever? Both of which have full workloads for Keuchel? These all seem unpleasant. None bc are you wanting Gio and Lynn to only start 20 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 (edited) Apparently the Padres also showed interest in Conforto pre lockout. Edited March 11, 2022 by Chicago White Sox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Just now, Chicago White Sox said: Apparently the Padres also showed interested in Conforto pre lockout. That makes a lot of sense actually. They had been rumored for Castellanos before the lockout, but then one of their beat writers said that’s not likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-Gun Pete Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Just now, SoxBlanco said: This has nothing to do with what you said. Sure, it means a lot when deciding whether or not to make the acquisition, but I was simply responding to your comment that what Oakland has to offer isn’t much better than what we can get in free agency. This has everything to do with what you said, and I don’t agree. I would easily take Bassitt over both of them. Bassitt projects to ~2.5 fWAR; Kikuchi ~2.0 fWAR; Rodon projects to ~3.0 fWAR. All 3 are similar enough in projection, but only one of these three will cost KW/RH to win a trade. None are likely to be TOR options. I'd prefer to just use cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 1 minute ago, fathom said: That makes a lot of sense actually. They had been rumored for Castellanos before the lockout, but then one of their beat writers said that’s not likely. Are they willing to go into the tax? Looks like they got about $20M to work with, so adding Conforto would push them up against the CBT threshold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said: Bassitt projects to ~2.5 fWAR; Kikuchi ~2.0 fWAR; Rodon projects to ~3.0 fWAR. All 3 are similar enough in projection, but only one of these three will cost KW/RH to win a trade. None are likely to be TOR options. I'd prefer to just use cash. What are the contracts you’re expecting Kikuchi & Rodon to get? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Just now, Chicago White Sox said: Are they willing to go into the tax? Looks like they got about $20M to work with, so adding Conforto would push them up against the CBT threshold. Oh great, discussing Padres financials again no idea to be honest, but I have a feeling Conforto has a lot more suitors than Castellanos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 1 minute ago, Two-Gun Pete said: Bassitt projects to ~2.5 fWAR; Kikuchi ~2.0 fWAR; Rodon projects to ~3.0 fWAR. All 3 are similar enough in projection, but only one of these three will cost KW/RH to win a trade. None are likely to be TOR options. I'd prefer to just use cash. I respect that opinion. I’m just not high on Kikuchi, and Rodon’s health scares me. Perhaps I’m too high on Bassitt, but I have been very impressed watching him the past few seasons. I think he would really improve the rotation and would make a difference for this team in the playoffs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/03/free-agent-notes-rodon-kikuchi-correa-soler.html Yankees and Twins in on Rodon and Kikuchi... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts