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Offseason Part 2 - Lets the Rumors & Action Begin


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Just now, caulfield12 said:

Well, except for TA having all the raw tools in the world to play SS, vs. Vaughn’s quite obvious physical limitations.

Ugh...I'm NOT talking about Vaughn being the RF forever.   He seems to be coordinated and smart...just slow...and has a potentially amazing bat...and he's 24...and 1b is blocked...and he's cheap...and he fixes one of three problems you have.  I don't see a good 2b solution internally and I'd rather spend money on pitching.  i think Rodon over Keuchel is WAY greater than Conforto over Vaughn.    

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29 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Hmm best pitcher in baseball last year for the 1st half of the season who's arm predictably got weary who is 29 and who other clubs have looked at his meds and aren't scared off vs. a pitcher who has only 2 full years out of the last 6 that he threw complete seasons and is 33. I'll go with paying just money for Rodon .

I also don't think a some creative trades are out of the question in which multiple pieces are moved for younger talent . Youth for youth but also Kimbrel and Keuchel for a bigger contract then those 2 combined. Time is a factor but simplifying things and going for another 1 yr contract for a pitcher with an extensive injury history while giving up depth and youth isn't the answer.

Why are clubs disclosing their medical reviews of Rodon to the media exactly?  What benefit does that provide?  I mean it couldn’t be anymore obvious that it’s a Boras leak and using the Mets is just the cherry on the sundae.

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16 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The track record recently with Japanese positional players is pretty poor and I’d much rather have sure things than gamble my money on a pitcher who has one good healthy season in his career and a guy who has never played stateside.  Those are both massive risks vs. Bassitt & Conforto for the same and it’s worth the prospect capital IMO.

Ok, not to be a dick, but you set it up so perfectly:

Yeah Ohtani really sucks at baseball, amirite?

 

That aside, Suzuki is a star who is 27, not some 30+ year old who may or may not adjust.

At the same time, pretending that Conforto didn't have a poor 2021, and who comes pre-injured (given our other 3 pre-injured OFers in Eloy, Robert, and Engel), and who would also have to adjust to a new league is burying the lede. 

 

Both Conforto and Suzuki come with upside potential, and downside risks.

 

WRT Bassitt, ignoring that he's 33 years old, and that his track record is all of 2 seasons as a full time starter, and whose track record is skewed by him pitching in Oakland is similarly burying the lede. 

 

Both Bassitt and Rodon come with upside potential, and downside risks.

 

All that said, I'd rather have Suzuki than Conforto, and just use cash instead of trading for a 33 year old whose numbers just might be artificial.

Edited by Two-Gun Pete
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13 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Agreed and this is a great sign re: Conforto. 

NSC also noted that Hahn is intentionally BSing  on the SP is #1 priority claim.

Let's get this deal locked down today with MC. Then move Kimbrel and make the OAK trade. Get everyone in camp on Sunday.

I boarding a flight tonight around 6pm so I fully expect some major move, hopefully Conforto, to be announced around then.  Either way, Hahn needs to be aggressive with Boras and not let him slow play us and risk coming out empty handed.  A left-handed power bat or savage is critical for having a successful offseason.

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Just now, Two-Gun Pete said:

Ok, not to be a dick, but you set it up so perfectly:

Yeah Ohtani really sucks at baseball, amirite?

 

That aside, Suzuki is a star who is 27, not some 30+ year old who may or may not adjust.

At the same time, pretending that Conforto didn't have a poor 2021, and who comes pre-injured, given our other 2 pre-injured OFers, and who would also jave to adjust to a new league is burying the lede. 

 

Both Conforto and Suzuki come with upside potential, and downside risks.

 

WRT Bassitt, ignoring that he's 33 years old, and that his track record is all of 2 seasons as a full time starter, and whose track record is skewed by him pitching in Oakland is similarly burying the lede. 

 

Both Bassitt and Rodon come with upside potential, and downside risks.

 

All that aside, I'd rather have Suzuki than Conforto, and just use cash instead of trading for a 33 year old.

Suzuki also opens up marketing opportunities as well as starting a pipeline to Japan like we had with Iguchi and Takatsu.

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14 minutes ago, ptatc said:

With Boras as his agent he will not be signing anytime soon.

Boras doesn’t exactly have a ton of time.  Once dominoes start falling, teams will quickly move to the next best option.  I don’t see teams waiting weeks to sign a corner OF bat, but Boras will obviously try to drag things out as best as he can.

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6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/03/bryan-reynolds-rumors-turned-down-extension-pirates.html
White Sox name mentioned in connection with the highly-coveted Reynolds.

Trade cost would likely be prohibitive…but, then again, Pirates have made some head scratchers.

Wouldn't be shocked to see a Crochet/Vaughn package floated here. Not sure how I'd feel about it, but Reynolds is damn good. I'm still about as high on Vaughn as anyone.

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3 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Ok, not to be a dick, but you set it up so perfectly:

Yeah Ohtani really sucks at baseball, amirite?

 

That aside, Suzuki is a star who is 27, not some 30+ year old who may or may not adjust.

At the same time, pretending that Conforto didn't have a poor 2021, and who comes pre-injured, given our other 2 pre-injured OFers, and who would also jave to adjust to a new league is burying the lede. 

 

Both Conforto and Suzuki come with upside potential, and downside risks.

 

WRT Bassitt, ignoring that he's 33 years old, and that his track record is all of 2 seasons as a full time starter, and whose track record is skewed by him pitching in Oakland is similarly burying the lede. 

 

Both Bassitt and Rodon come with upside potential, and downside risks.

 

All that aside, I'd rather have Suzuki than Conforto, and just use cash instead of trading for a 33 year old.

Ohtani is a freak talent like any other in baseball.  I did not mean him when I made my statement.

Yes, Conforto & Bassitt have risks, but Michael dealing with a hamstring issue in 2021 doesn’t really worry me all that much where a guy changing leagues / countries is a huge wild card.  He could be a steal, he could be a flop.  Where are right now, I want certainty and I think Conforto’s ability against RHP addresses a massive need.

I’m not entirely against Rodon, but I don’t want to give him a multi year deal and I don’t want to risk $20M on him this year if it costs me the chance of getting Conforto.  Again, it’s all about risk and Carlos is about as risky as a pitcher comes.  Bassitt being 33 isn’t nearly the same risk as he hasn’t really shown any signs of slowing down.

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25 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Agreed and this is a great sign re: Conforto. 

NSC also noted that Hahn is intentionally BSing  on the SP is #1 priority claim.

Let's get this deal locked down today with MC. Then move Kimbrel and make the OAK trade. Get everyone in camp on Sunday.

yeah, i mean nsc is super connected 

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Just a suggestion...

But reading through this entire thread can be a bit exhausting. If there are notable signings or significant rumours attaching the White Sox to players can we start new threads?

To be clear, I don't think that has actually happened yet.

But just putting it out there.

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12 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I boarding a flight tonight around 6pm so I fully expect some major move, hopefully Conforto, to be announced around then.  Either way, Hahn needs to be aggressive with Boras and not let him slow play us and risk coming out empty handed.  A left-handed power bat or savage is critical for having a successful offseason.

Bring me a left handed savage, Rick!

I agree. RH needs to make an aggressive offer on MC. If they start slow playing move onto Schwarber fast for LF/DH and then figure out a cheaper short term RF option later. 

There needs to be left handed savagery by the time by the time you are at the gate. After all, CWS needs to have something to be excited about on the flight as he's looking at the unappealing combination of a couple bags of peanuts and his old lady nagging him about blogging. 

Give that man a legit savage to be excited about, Rick. 

Let's ****ing go!

Edited by SoCalChiSox
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4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Ohtani is a freak talent like any other in baseball.  I did not mean him when I made my statement.

Yes, Conforto & Bassitt have risks, but Michael dealing with a hamstring issue in 2021 doesn’t really worry me all that much where a guy changing leagues / countries is a huge wild card.  He could be a steal, he could be a flop.  Where are right now, I want certainty and I think Conforto’s ability against RHP addresses a massive need.

I’m not entirely against Rodon, but I don’t want to give him a multi year deal and I don’t want to risk $20M on him this year if it costs me the chance of getting Conforto.  Again, it’s all about risk and Carlos is about as risky as a pitcher comes.  Bassitt being 33 isn’t nearly the same risk as he hasn’t really shown any signs of slowing down.

Ok. Earlier you said "a sure thing," which I dont think applies to any one of the principals under consideration here. 

I'm just not "locked in" on "Conforto-or-bust," because he, like Suzuki, has his own inherent downside risks.

 

I AM, however, dead-set against trading for a SP, given our system's weakness, and given what's on offer in the trade and FA markets right now.

IOW, there isn't an available SP trade that is clearly superior to just using cash on a FA. Each and every one of the SPs available range from ~1.0-ish fWAR just-a-guy-types, to Rodon's projected ~3.0-ish fWAR. All of them are mid-rotation types that probably aren't going to move the needle a lot, but whose contributions lie more in Keuchel/Lopez/Stiever/Lambert avoidance, and Kopech preservation.

 

Now, if you could convince me that there's a 4+ fWAR SP available in trade for what we now have, let us know. I just don't see it.

Just use cash.

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