Offseason Part 2 - Lets the Rumors & Action Begin

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

8 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I mean I just posted that I'd love send Keuchel to the moon.  But hes their #5 starter, they're paying him regardless and Sox will probably win the division by 10+ games anyway.  Add all those together, and I don't see Sox spending their limited capital an another SP, and I believe they'll try to squeeze as many starts as possible out of Dallas until that vesting option gets close and which point they send him packing. 

Oh I don’t disagree at all. But Duber acts like the Sox are fine with who they have as if Keuchel is still good. I’m convinced Jerry pays him under the table to spread this propaganda. 

[ptatc]

8 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I'm happy to admit if I'm wrong on this, but I don't see the Sox getting anything but some minor league organizational filler if they don't eat money. If they eat money, it would have just been better to spend that money elsewhere on a MLB caliber player than getting some lotto ticket by paying some salary.

Even if they get minor league filler, they have committed no money to him. They can spend it elsewhere then. Your scenario is entirely plausible. Trade Kimbrel for nothing, use his money elsewhere. However, there is a chance that nothing turns into something. Nothing lost either way.

[chw42]

 

 

[Jack Parkman]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

No, this was the excuse provided by people like you to justify the incompetence of a front office that has absolutely not earned the benefit of the doubt. And you keep citing hindsight, when plenty of people laid this out the minute the Sox didn't extend the QO based on OTHER cases of historical data that showed this was a poor decision.

The problem with most of your takes is that you always defer to what you deem to be the "experts," but reality is, baseball isn't a STEM field... physics/medicine. While there is certainly proprietary data and information, and obviously outsiders aren't having conversations within league circles, people can evaluate sports as outsiders based on actuals which provide as much of an unbias viewpoint as you'll find. Signings and valuations are public information. Guys within the circles could be deceived by conversations that were meant to deceive them.

You give credit to these GM's as if they are baseball savants, when history tells us that is not always the case, and plenty of organizations are behind the times and have not kept pace with the games changes and trajectory. I could have told you what Manny Machado was going to require to sign, yet the White Sox were blown away. Same goes for other signings the Sox were "caught off guard" about. Hell, the Sox thought FA wouldn't happen until after the CBA when plenty of outsiders expected a flurry of moves before the clock. Rick is a very smart man, but he's not some unquestioned baseball savant with a track record unworthy of critique. 

What makes anyone think that the same FO that squandered Sale, Quintana and Abreu's prime could do the job this time? 

[Chicago White Sox]

27 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

You're entrusting the same organization that didn't realize Carlos Rodon's value league wide to determine that Kimbrel was worth 16 million + Trade pieces. I said at the time picking up the Kimbrel option was bad management. It was hanging onto a bad decision instead of cutting ties with it. Kimbrel isn't netting the Sox anything of value. Picking up his option was more bad decision making on MLB talent value by the White Sox front office.

You may be right, but we might as well wait another week or two at this point before making absolutes.  

[Baron]

I swear Ray hears the name Kimbrel in his sleep 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

You may be right, but we might as well wait another week or two at this point before making absolutes.  

Happy to admit if I'm wrong here. Maybe Rick shoves this one. I've been critical of things that have worked out before and would be happy to be wrong again.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Just now, Baron said:

I swear Ray hears the name Kimbrel in his sleep 

Still salty about that one, eh Baron? I didn't even bring Kimbrel up today, initially. 

[macsandz]

40 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said:

Now we get to find out what SF knows about Rodon.

They know less than the White Sox. 

Edited March 11, 2022 by macsandz

[ptatc]

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

No, this was the excuse provided by people like you to justify the incompetence of a front office that has absolutely not earned the benefit of the doubt. And you keep citing hindsight, when plenty of people laid this out the minute the Sox didn't extend the QO based on OTHER cases of historical data that showed this was a poor decision.

The problem with most of your takes is that you always defer to what you deem to be the "experts," but reality is, baseball isn't a STEM field... physics/medicine. While there is certainly proprietary data and information, and obviously outsiders aren't having conversations within league circles, people can evaluate sports as outsiders based on actuals which provide as much of an unbias viewpoint as you'll find. Signings and valuations are public information. Guys within the circles could be deceived by conversations that were meant to deceive them.

You give credit to these GM's as if they are baseball savants, when history tells us that is not always the case, and plenty of organizations are behind the times and have not kept pace with the games changes and trajectory. I could have told you what Manny Machado was going to require to sign, yet the White Sox were blown away. Same goes for other signings the Sox were "caught off guard" about. Hell, the Sox thought FA wouldn't happen until after the CBA when plenty of outsiders expected a flurry of moves before the clock. Rick is a very smart man, but he's not some unquestioned baseball savant with a track record unworthy of critique. 

Can you give any justification that he will be effective for an entire season when he hasn't ever made more than 28 starts and 165 innings and that was only once 6 years ago.

Its a guess on either side whether or not he can be healthy for even a season. 

[Whisox05]

 

[Baron]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Still salty about that one, eh Baron? I didn't even bring Kimbrel up today, initially. 

Yes. I didn't say you brought it up but when I see Kimbrel talk you just appear like it's a bat signal. 

[chw42]

5 minutes ago, Baron said:

I swear Ray hears the name Kimbrel in his sleep 

To his credit, he was right about it from the start. 

[maloney.adam]

What’s with the pessimism all of a sudden? Did Conforto or Castellanos sign elsewhere or something? Lol

Edited March 11, 2022 by maloney.adam

[KrankinSox]

1 minute ago, Whisox05 said:

 

This is going to be interesting. His case was thrown out, so TECHNICALLY he did nothing wrong. But that's a lot of baggage to bring on for any team. Not only is he a PR headache, but he's got a shaky clubhouse reputation. 

He can pitch though. That's a fact. 

[thedoctor]

let’s try this again…

LET THE RUMORS AND ACTION BEGIN

[ptatc]

Just now, maloney.adam said:

What’s with the pessimism all of a sudden? Did Conforto or Castellanos sign elsewhere? Lol

It's Soxtalk, it's the default attitude.

[poppysox]

5 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

No, this was the excuse provided by people like you to justify the incompetence of a front office that has absolutely not earned the benefit of the doubt. And you keep citing hindsight, when plenty of people laid this out the minute the Sox didn't extend the QO based on OTHER cases of historical data that showed this was a poor decision.

The problem with most of your takes is that you always defer to what you deem to be the "experts," but reality is, baseball isn't a STEM field... physics/medicine. While there is certainly proprietary data and information, and obviously outsiders aren't having conversations within league circles, people can evaluate sports as outsiders based on actuals which provide as much of an unbias viewpoint as you'll find. Signings and valuations are public information. Guys within the circles could be deceived by conversations that were meant to deceive them.

You give credit to these GM's as if they are baseball savants, when history tells us that is not always the case, and plenty of organizations are behind the times and have not kept pace with the games changes and trajectory. I could have told you what Manny Machado was going to require to sign, yet the White Sox were blown away. Same goes for other signings the Sox were "caught off guard" about. Hell, the Sox thought FA wouldn't happen until after the CBA when plenty of outsiders expected a flurry of moves before the clock. Rick is a very smart man, but he's not some unquestioned baseball savant with a track record unworthy of critique. 

My "take" is that the FO knows more than I do.  I have opinions like not wanting Machado at those numbers because IMO he would hamper what else we can do.  As a fan I have opinions but I have no recourse but to hope the FO makes better choices than the fan base.  This is a business that names someone Executive of The Year and fires him the next year.  Literally, no one gets it right all the time.

[maloney.adam]

Just now, ptatc said:

It's Soxtalk, it's the default attitude.

Good answer.

Edited March 11, 2022 by maloney.adam

[SoCalChiSox]

7 minutes ago, macsandz said:

The know less than the White Sox. 

Give us some info.....anything happening for us today? 

[Chicago White Sox]

29 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

I think they don’t know what they are doing. I don’t think the White Sox adequately know how to value the free agent marketplace. I think they got caught with their pants down in their valuations and offseason plans going back to start of free agency. 
 

They can absolutely overcome it and have plenty of time to make this team better - but right now this is a worse team than it was last year in my opinion. 

Note: It is still a very good team though.

We need to wait and see what the Sox do this offseason before making these kind of declarations.  The Sox have a finite amount of money and resources.  While not picking up the QO looks bad right now, the one caveat with the QO is you can not trade the player if they accept for some period of time.  If they wanted to use the $18M on other needs and didn’t want to take any chances of Carlos returning given pessimism on his ability to repeat his 2021 results and/or stay healthy, then there is still some logic here.

That being said, this definitely feels like a miss given the contract he got from the Giants.

[Whisox05]

 

[fathom]

3 minutes ago, KrankinSox said:

This is going to be interesting. His case was thrown out, so TECHNICALLY he did nothing wrong. But that's a lot of baggage to bring on for any team. Not only is he a PR headache, but he's got a shaky clubhouse reputation. 

He can pitch though. That's a fact. 

Especially since Watson is going to be playing QB in the NFL next year 

[macsandz]

Just now, SoCalChiSox said:

Give us some info.....anything happening for us today? 

Nobody knows. It's the wild west out there right now.

[Chicago White Sox]

34 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I don't think anyone thinks its a bad thing.  I just don't think they're going to add a 6th legitimate SP to do it.  Much more likely a scrapheap FA to compete with him. 

Thing is, Sox are paying Kuechel $18M.  They've historically shown no willingness to completely cut bait on someone that expensive.  He isn't a bullpen piece.    They'll try to squeeze 20 or so out of him before releasing.

To be clear, I'd love to send Keuchel to the moon and acquire a legit TOR SP.  I just don't think its going to happen. 

Who is replacing Keuchel when they release him after 20 starts?