Offseason Part 2 - Lets the Rumors & Action Begin

[Chicago White Sox]

27 minutes ago, HahnsKiddieTable said:

If they go into this season with a platoon in RF once again after all the plug and plays the Whitesox used will show the incompetence of the front office

Yup, two straight years of horrific RF production as a result of going cheap.  If Hahn doesn’t address the problem this year then he need to be held accountable for any shortcomings.

[Heads22]

 

[fathom]

Just now, Heads22 said:

 

Everyone Loves Tony!

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

Just now, Heads22 said:

 

People need to step off the ledge. If LaRussa wants help, he’ll get it. 

[Chicago White Sox]

26 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

Lol…what does that even mean?

[ptatc]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Yup, two straight years of horrific RF production as a result of going cheap.  If Hahn doesn’t address the problem this year then he need to be held accountable for any shortcomings.

Depends what you mean by production. I think they'll get better than average offense. Defense well.......

[VAfan]

13 minutes ago, HahnsKiddieTable said:

If they go into this season with a platoon in RF once again after all the plug and plays the Whitesox used will show the incompetence of the front office

A platoon in RF continues to make sense.

If you add a guy like Conforto, who gets benched?  

First off, Conforto had a bad year in 2021.  He did not hit righties better than Gavin Sheets.  And he did not hit lefties better than Andrew Vaughn. 

Sheets had a .900 OPS and a 143 wRC+ against right handed pitchers last year.   All 11 of his HRs were against righties.  And he's just starting to figure it out.  

Michael Conforto, by contrast, had a .793 OPS and 119 wRC+ against righties last year.   

Meanwihile, Vaughn kills lefties to the tune of a .938 OPS and a 156 wRC+.  Conforto in 2021?  .701 OPS and 91 wRC+.

Based on that, a Sheets/Vaughn platoon had a much better offensive year in 2021 than Michael Conforto.  

Then you have Adam Engel, who is by far the best fielder among Sheets, Vaughn, and Conforto.  Oddly enough, he had reverse splits last year, hitting right handers extremely well -- .938 OPS and 154 wRC+.  Lefties actually befuddled Engel last year.  But he was also hurt a lot and had only 140 PAs. In 2020, he hit both righties and lefties well.  

Now, presumably Sheets and Vaughn are going to spend a lot of time DHing, but the Sox have so many other players to rotate into that spot -- Grandal, Abreu, and Jimenez, that for them to get playing time, they need to spend some time in the outfield.  1B will not always be open as a backup, as Grandal plays there as well.  

So, if you sign Conforto, it just seems like you have stunted the development of some very cheap players who may actually be more productive with the bat than him.  Not to mention that if you sign him for multiple years, will you then block the development of Oscar Colas and Yoenis Cespedes?  

Better to spend the money elsewhere.  (Like on Carlos Rodon.)

 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

8 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Yup, two straight years of horrific RF production as a result of going cheap.  If Hahn doesn’t address the problem this year then he need to be held accountable for any shortcomings.

you mean 10 straight years?

[ChiSox59]

1 minute ago, VAfan said:

A platoon in RF continues to make sense.

If you add a guy like Conforto, who gets benched?  

First off, Conforto had a bad year in 2021.  He did not hit righties better than Gavin Sheets.  And he did not hit lefties better than Andrew Vaughn. 

Sheets had a .900 OPS and a 143 wRC+ against right handed pitchers last year.   All 11 of his HRs were against righties.  And he's just starting to figure it out.  

Michael Conforto, by contrast, had a .793 OPS and 119 wRC+ against righties last year.   

Meanwihile, Vaughn kills lefties to the tune of a .938 OPS and a 156 wRC+.  Conforto in 2021?  .701 OPS and 91 wRC+.

Based on that, a Sheets/Vaughn platoon had a much better offensive year in 2021 than Michael Conforto.  

Then you have Adam Engel, who is by far the best fielder among Sheets, Vaughn, and Conforto.  Oddly enough, he had reverse splits last year, hitting right handers extremely well -- .938 OPS and 154 wRC+.  Lefties actually befuddled Engel last year.  But he was also hurt a lot and had only 140 PAs. In 2020, he hit both righties and lefties well.  

Now, presumably Sheets and Vaughn are going to spend a lot of time DHing, but the Sox have so many other players to rotate into that spot -- Grandal, Abreu, and Jimenez, that for them to get playing time, they need to spend some time in the outfield.  1B will not always be open as a backup, as Grandal plays there as well.  

So, if you sign Conforto, it just seems like you have stunted the development of some very cheap players who may actually be more productive with the bat than him.  Not to mention that if you sign him for multiple years, will you then block the development of Oscar Colas and Yoenis Cespedes?  

Better to spend the money elsewhere.  (Like on Carlos Rodon.)

 

Easy. Sheets goes to AAA until he’s needed. Which probably won’t take long. 

Also just love how so many people glob onto Confortos 2021 stats and ignore his large sample size of being elite against against RHP for YEARS. But also dismiss AV due to tiny sample against RHP and anoint Sheets for a smaller sample against RHP. It’s comical stuff. 

Edited March 12, 2022 by ChiSox59

[Jack Parkman]

1 minute ago, VAfan said:

A platoon in RF continues to make sense.

If you add a guy like Conforto, who gets benched?  

First off, Conforto had a bad year in 2021.  He did not hit righties better than Gavin Sheets.  And he did not hit lefties better than Andrew Vaughn. 

Sheets had a .900 OPS and a 143 wRC+ against right handed pitchers last year.   All 11 of his HRs were against righties.  And he's just starting to figure it out.  

Michael Conforto, by contrast, had a .793 OPS and 119 wRC+ against righties last year.   

Meanwihile, Vaughn kills lefties to the tune of a .938 OPS and a 156 wRC+.  Conforto in 2021?  .701 OPS and 91 wRC+.

Based on that, a Sheets/Vaughn platoon had a much better offensive year in 2021 than Michael Conforto.  

Then you have Adam Engel, who is by far the best fielder among Sheets, Vaughn, and Conforto.  Oddly enough, he had reverse splits last year, hitting right handers extremely well -- .938 OPS and 154 wRC+.  Lefties actually befuddled Engel last year.  But he was also hurt a lot and had only 140 PAs. In 2020, he hit both righties and lefties well.  

Now, presumably Sheets and Vaughn are going to spend a lot of time DHing, but the Sox have so many other players to rotate into that spot -- Grandal, Abreu, and Jimenez, that for them to get playing time, they need to spend some time in the outfield.  1B will not always be open as a backup, as Grandal plays there as well.  

So, if you sign Conforto, it just seems like you have stunted the development of some very cheap players who may actually be more productive with the bat than him.  Not to mention that if you sign him for multiple years, will you then block the development of Oscar Colas and Yoenis Cespedes?  

Better to spend the money elsewhere.  (Like on Carlos Rodon.)

 

Rodon already signed with San Francisco. 

Right now, I'd imagine Sheets/Vaughn will be the DH. The Sox still don't have one of those, if Eloy is playing LF. 

Edited March 12, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[Vote4Pedro]

2 minutes ago, VAfan said:

A platoon in RF continues to make sense.

If you add a guy like Conforto, who gets benched?  

First off, Conforto had a bad year in 2021.  He did not hit righties better than Gavin Sheets.  And he did not hit lefties better than Andrew Vaughn. 

Sheets had a .900 OPS and a 143 wRC+ against right handed pitchers last year.   All 11 of his HRs were against righties.  And he's just starting to figure it out.  

Michael Conforto, by contrast, had a .793 OPS and 119 wRC+ against righties last year.   

Meanwihile, Vaughn kills lefties to the tune of a .938 OPS and a 156 wRC+.  Conforto in 2021?  .701 OPS and 91 wRC+.

Based on that, a Sheets/Vaughn platoon had a much better offensive year in 2021 than Michael Conforto.  

Then you have Adam Engel, who is by far the best fielder among Sheets, Vaughn, and Conforto.  Oddly enough, he had reverse splits last year, hitting right handers extremely well -- .938 OPS and 154 wRC+.  Lefties actually befuddled Engel last year.  But he was also hurt a lot and had only 140 PAs. In 2020, he hit both righties and lefties well.  

Now, presumably Sheets and Vaughn are going to spend a lot of time DHing, but the Sox have so many other players to rotate into that spot -- Grandal, Abreu, and Jimenez, that for them to get playing time, they need to spend some time in the outfield.  1B will not always be open as a backup, as Grandal plays there as well.  

So, if you sign Conforto, it just seems like you have stunted the development of some very cheap players who may actually be more productive with the bat than him.  Not to mention that if you sign him for multiple years, will you then block the development of Oscar Colas and Yoenis Cespedes?  

Better to spend the money elsewhere.  (Like on Carlos Rodon.)

 

As we see year after year the teams that win and contend don’t worry about the playing time scenario that always gets worked out. If you are in it to win the World Series in 2022 you don’t worry about blocking Colas or Cespedes.

[Chicago White Sox]

10 minutes ago, fathom said:

Everyone Loves Tony!

Greatest manager ever as long as he gets Jerry to open that wallet!

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

42 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Yeah you’d have to get really creative to shed Cano’s salary. Basically attach a couple top prospects to get out from under it.

Now if you want to part with McNeil, Nimmo, McCann and prospect Ronny Mauricio and get back Keuchel, Kimbrel ,Lopez, Collins and whoever else maybe the Sox take on the Cano deal. Then all we need is starting pitching. RF and 2nd base solved along with 2 good lefties.

I haven't done enough research to figure out if the Sox could take on the multiyear contracts of McCann and Cano while only giving up Kimbrel and Keuchels salary's so maybe throw JD Davis or Thomas Nido in place of McCann since things will look ugly in 2023 and 2024 with both the McCann and Cano contracts on the books.

Edited March 12, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Jack Parkman]

They still need a backup catcher as well. Don't want to go into the season with Collins in that spot again. 

[The Beast]

1 hour ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Piñeda anyone?

He’s the only one that made sense to me in the list of remaining free agent starting pitchers.

37 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

How many teams with postseason success relied on super subs at second base and a platoon in right field? Doesn’t it make more sense to acquire your starting roster now than wait until the deadline? It’s ridiculous that they can’t just go out and get a right fielder that is consistently starting instead of relying on Vaughn/Sheets/Engel and get an everyday second baseman, relying on Garcia and the AAAA bench player from the minors. That’s not getting them closer to a championship.

[VAfan]

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

Easy. Sheets goes to AAA until he’s needed. Which probably won’t take long. 

Sheets was among the Sox' best hitters against right handed pitching last year, as measured by wRC+. 

His wRC+ of 125 overall (against righties and lefties) was 5th best on the team, and essentially tied with Abreu (126 wRC+) and Engel (127 wRC+).  Only Robert and Grandal blew that away.  But even Robert didn't hit right handers better.  Grandal did.

So, you think the Sox should send down to AAA their second best hitter against right handed pitching?  

[Chicago White Sox]

5 minutes ago, VAfan said:

A platoon in RF continues to make sense.

If you add a guy like Conforto, who gets benched?  

First off, Conforto had a bad year in 2021.  He did not hit righties better than Gavin Sheets.  And he did not hit lefties better than Andrew Vaughn. 

Sheets had a .900 OPS and a 143 wRC+ against right handed pitchers last year.   All 11 of his HRs were against righties.  And he's just starting to figure it out.  

Michael Conforto, by contrast, had a .793 OPS and 119 wRC+ against righties last year.   

Meanwihile, Vaughn kills lefties to the tune of a .938 OPS and a 156 wRC+.  Conforto in 2021?  .701 OPS and 91 wRC+.

Based on that, a Sheets/Vaughn platoon had a much better offensive year in 2021 than Michael Conforto.  

Then you have Adam Engel, who is by far the best fielder among Sheets, Vaughn, and Conforto.  Oddly enough, he had reverse splits last year, hitting right handers extremely well -- .938 OPS and 154 wRC+.  Lefties actually befuddled Engel last year.  But he was also hurt a lot and had only 140 PAs. In 2020, he hit both righties and lefties well.  

Now, presumably Sheets and Vaughn are going to spend a lot of time DHing, but the Sox have so many other players to rotate into that spot -- Grandal, Abreu, and Jimenez, that for them to get playing time, they need to spend some time in the outfield.  1B will not always be open as a backup, as Grandal plays there as well.  

So, if you sign Conforto, it just seems like you have stunted the development of some very cheap players who may actually be more productive with the bat than him.  Not to mention that if you sign him for multiple years, will you then block the development of Oscar Colas and Yoenis Cespedes?  

Better to spend the money elsewhere.  (Like on Carlos Rodon.)

 

For the love of god, please stop only looking at the prior year when evaluating players.  None of the guys you mentioned have the track record that Conforto does.  Additionally, you completely ignore the negative defensive value that Sheets & Vaughn will provide.  You also act like we can somehow merge Sheets, Vaughn, & Engel into one super player, but that’s not how it works.  And then to top it all off you go with let’s not block two prospects who have done jack shit and use the money instead on a player that is already gone.

[SonofaRoache]

23 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Lol…what does that even mean?

Right? We are in the 3rd year of our contention window and now is the time to add pieces that put us over the top. We don't need 300 million dollar players to add, but we need guys that aren't black holes in the lineup. 

[Rowand44]

5 minutes ago, VAfan said:

Sheets was among the Sox' best hitters against right handed pitching last year, as measured by wRC+. 

His wRC+ of 125 overall (against righties and lefties) was 5th best on the team, and essentially tied with Abreu (126 wRC+) and Engel (127 wRC+).  Only Robert and Grandal blew that away.  But even Robert didn't hit right handers better.  Grandal did.

So, you think the Sox should send down to AAA their second best hitter against right handed pitching?  

He had a whole 140 ab’s against rhp. 
 

And also worrying about Colas or Cespedes is just silly at this point.  They’re not Robert or Eloy or Yoan level prospects and even if they were you don’t worry about blocking them when you have a legit chance to win the World Series this year with the right moves.  

[ShandyMan]

That LaRussa comment is the only thing giving me hope

[CentralChamps21]

Sign Kyle Schwarber.

Schwarber is what Andrew Vaughn could become, except that Schwarber is already that good and left-handed.

Package Vaughn with whatever else it takes to get a #2-3 starter with at least 3 years of team control. Kopech/Keuchel split time at #5

Re-sign Tepera

Trade Kimbrel for whatever you can get.

Sign Matt Duffy to platoon 2B with Leury.

Platoon Sheets/Engel in RF.

Lineup: TA 6, Yoan 5, Robert 8, Jose 3, Schwarber DH, Eloy 7, Yaz 2, Sheets/Engel 9, Duffy/Leury 4

Bench: Collins, Burger

Rotation: Giolito, Lynn, [trade acquisition], Cease, Kopech/Keuchel

Bullpen: Hendriks, Graveman, Bummer, Tepera, Crochet, Ruiz, Lopez

[fathom]

7 minutes ago, staxxington said:

That LaRussa comment is the only thing giving me hope

Until I saw he said they already have enough offense 

[Jack Parkman]

May I remind everyone about the David Samson/JR comments? 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

3 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said:

Sign Kyle Schwarber.

Schwarber is what Andrew Vaughn could become, except that Schwarber is already that good and left-handed.

Package Vaughn with whatever else it takes to get a #2-3 starter with at least 3 years of team control. Kopech/Keuchel split time at #5

Re-sign Tepera

Trade Kimbrel for whatever you can get.

Sign Matt Duffy to platoon 2B with Leury.

Platoon Sheets/Engel in RF.

Lineup: TA 6, Yoan 5, Robert 8, Jose 3, Schwarber DH, Eloy 7, Yaz 2, Sheets/Engel 9, Duffy/Leury 4

Bench: Collins, Burger

Rotation: Giolito, Lynn, [trade acquisition], Cease, Kopech/Keuchel

Bullpen: Hendriks, Graveman, Bummer, Tepera, Crochet, Ruiz, Lopez

So we'd still have 2 massive holes in this plan?

Schwarber and Vaughn do not have the same offensive profile.  Vaughn (if he hits ceiling), seems to be a high average, decent power guy.  Schwarber is the opposite.  

[Vote4Pedro]

3 minutes ago, fathom said:

Until I saw he said they already have enough offense 

Yeah…..