White Sox Sign RP Joe Kelly (2yrs with a club option; $17m)

[ptatc]

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

I

Expecting guys just returning from TJS to be nails isn’t a winning formula.

85% return to prior level of function. So most do.

[Two-Gun Pete]

2 hours ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

Yet they had holes to fill at RF, 2B and needed another mid rotation SP. The savings at the aforementioned positions should be allocated at those spots instead of throwing big money at Kelly.

I mean, they've needed a RF since Eaton was cut. They've needed a SP since they let Rodon go.

While its true they STARTED the rebuild correctly, instead of finishing it up with bigger spends at RF  and SP, they're overallocated into RPs.

Even without Kimbrel, $34.5MM into the pen, while only $15.5MM or so into the OF. Yes, that means there are cheap stars in the OF, but it also means that it's incomplete. 

Edited March 13, 2022 by Two-Gun Pete

[thxfrthmmrs]

7 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Yates will miss at least half, if not the entire season.

I was looking for buy low guys who has signed he was the first one that came to mind. It doesn’t have to be Yates but someone similar who fits the bill. With the accelerated FA timeline I would expect a number of RP will be willing to take a discounted deal over the next few weeks and make sure they have a job come opening day.

FWIW from what I just gathered looks like Yates is on track for May/June. While Kelly may not be a go on OD with his biceps injury.

[Two-Gun Pete]

3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

The Sox have the core of their line up filled with young cost controlled players. Where others would have expensive LF/SS/3B/SP/CF, the Sox have cheaper stars. This allowed the Sox to use that money to spend other places.  He's quite literally discovered that the Sox did a successful rebuild and lockin of their young stars and is mad about it.

Nah, not mad about them having young cheap stars.

Mad that they're overallocated into RPs, rather than using their previously-extant payroll flexibility to get the RF and SP they need. $34.5MM on the pen, $15.5MM in the OF.

Edited March 13, 2022 by Two-Gun Pete

[Tnetennba]

9 hours ago, maloney.adam said:

Yeah Kimbrel is going to be traded. Maybe within the next 24 to 48 hours, maybe sooner. I don’t get why some people think they won’t trade him. 

Some people are hell bent in their belief that the FO is utterly incompetent and that the Sox are cheap.  When in fact it’s more nuanced than that.  But hey, the obstinate don’t let evidence get in the way of a good self-created narrative. 

[Tnetennba]

7 hours ago, maxjusttyped said:

I'm just gonna say this quietly and back away.... if the Sox make a meaningful addition in RF (Bryant, Conforto, Suzuki) I could deal with a guy like Greinke or Tyler Anderson as the 5th starter.

That at least pushes Kuechel and Lopez into depth roles and also reduces the number of starts we'd see from Lambert, Stiever etc this year.

Same here.  While I want someone better than those names, I’m fine with anyone better than gas can Keuchel or ReyLo starting regularly. 

[thxfrthmmrs]

Look, the people who are defending this signing (and the Harrison one) probably thinks we could still afford the RF and SP we wanted, and that we’d be able to trade Kimbrel without eating any money. With Kimbrel’s market shrinking we should have traded Kimbrel and figure out how much we have available to spend, go sign an RF and sign or trade for an SP before targeting another RP.

My prediction is this is no longer the case or worse yet the Sox never wanted to throw big money at Conforto and will go sign someone for $10M instead. I would be less critical of this move however if we still end up with Conforto and someone like Manaea even though I think we’re overpaying Kelly.

Edited March 13, 2022 by thxfrthmmrs

[Two-Gun Pete]

1 minute ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

Look, the people who are defending this signing (and the Harrison one) probably thinks we could still afford the RF and SP we wanted. My prediction is this is no longer the case or worse yet the Sox never wanted to throw big money at Conforto and will go sign someone for $10M instead. I would be less critical of this move however if we still end up with Conforto and someone like Manaea even though I think we’re overpaying Kelly.

Agree.

Hell, I'll be sated if its Suzuki as well, because he solves RF, even if he isn't Conforto.

This all seems backwards to me, them now having to trade for a SP, because they de-prioritized the position.

 

[KBX]

6 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

I mean, they've needed a RF since Eaton was cut. They've needed a SP since they let Rodon go.

While its true they STARTED the rebuild correctly, instead of finishing it up with bigger spends at RF  and SP, they're overallocated into RPs.

Even without Kimbrel, $34.5MM into the pen, while only $9MM or so into the OF. Yes, that means there are cheap stars in the OF, but it also means that it's incomplete. 

 

I don't see this org ever signing a guy like Conforto when they're already stacked. I could've seen the Sox signing him in 2018 or something, which means I expect him to go to Arizona or Miami rather than a team like ours. Conforto and Castellanos seem to be marginal improvements over the RF collective, and that improvement is probably purely defensive.  

[Sarava]

1 hour ago, Tnetennba said:

Some people are hell bent in their belief that the FO is utterly incompetent and that the Sox are cheap.  When in fact it’s more nuanced than that.  But hey, the obstinate don’t let evidence get in the way of a good self-created narrative. 

I do think Kimbrel will be traded. But let's not pretend that there isn't a history of White Sox front office incompetence when it comes to Kimbrel. That trade was a bad idea from the moment it was conceived, all the way to this very second.

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Nah, not mad about them having young cheap stars.

Mad that they're overallocated into RPs, rather than using their previously-extant payroll flexibility to get the RF and SP they need. $34.5MM on the pen, $9MM in the OF.

Again, you are missing the underlying reason why you think they are not allocated to your expectations.  When your rotation is mostly young and cheap, you aren't going to have a heavy allocation there. When your line up is young and cheap at the typically most expensive to fill positions such as SS, 3B, CF, etc, again,  you won't have a heavy allocation there either. That essentially leaves the pen to spend on.  And they did. They also spent to see guys like Grandal and to extend Lynn.

[Dick Allen]

9 minutes ago, Sarava said:

I do think Kimbrel will be traded. But let's not pretend that there isn't a history of White Sox front office incompetence when it comes to Kimbrel. That trade was a bad idea from the moment it was conceived, all the way to this very second.

Trading for the highest performing reliever on the market isn't a bad idea. I didn't like what they traded but that is over. 

We will see what they get for him. If it's a token return, they compounded their mistake by picking up the option. Think of all the time the Sox FO I'd spending on it right now when it should be spending that time on other things.

[Two-Gun Pete]

14 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Again, you are missing the underlying reason why you think they are not allocated to your expectations.  When your rotation is mostly young and cheap, you aren't going to have a heavy allocation there. When your line up is young and cheap at the typically most expensive to fill positions such as SS, 3B, CF, etc, again,  you won't have a heavy allocation there either. That essentially leaves the pen to spend on.  And they did. They also spent to see guys like Grandal and to extend Lynn.

No, you tried to setup a cool strawman, but thats fine.

 

And, the rotation is young? When 40% of it is > 34 years old?

And spending $34.5MM on a BP, when the OF has needed a RF since what, last May/June?

 

Its good that they've added talent this offseason.

 But they haven't solved a few problems that are/were evident. The OF and rotation remain incomplete, and in the case of the OF, underallocated.

I get that they're not finished yet, but it doesn't seem promising that they'll get everything they need.

Edited March 13, 2022 by Two-Gun Pete

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

No it means the eeyore gang is loud

You're a real pip. Plenty of others chimed in on the bad process, planning, and results up to this point. But I guess if you defend yourself  time and time again against the hordes of "Rainbow Bright " gang you're a nuisance. Ok everyone you are limited to one post of complaints now so make it a good one.

Why can't everyone just say what they want as much as they want ? You said your piece and now I've said mine.

[southsider2k5]

15 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

No, you tried to setup a cool strawman, but thats fine.

 

And, the rotation is young? When 40% of it is > 34 years old?

And spending $34.5MM on a BP, when the OF has needed a RF since what, last May/June?

 

Its good that they've added talent this offseason.

 But they haven't solved a few problems that are/were evident. The OF and rotation remain incomplete, and in the case of the OF, underallocated.

I get that they're not finished yet, but it doesn't seem promising that they'll get everything they need.

Actually I was taking apart your allocation strawman.

[Two-Gun Pete]

13 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Actually I was taking apart your allocation strawman.

Nah, I've supported my viewpoints with the data; you were posting things that were never posted by me or anyone else.

 

Don't like the numbers? Tell us why the numbers lie.

Edited March 13, 2022 by Two-Gun Pete

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Dude got something like 5 million a year. That hasn't been big money in a long time.

$8.5/yr for 2 yrs. Also not big money but when how close the Sox come to the CBT is a mystery and our 2 big ticket items still haven't been found it's a little scary. Like others I'm kind of in shock we are even over $200M.

[Balta1701]

35 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Again, you are missing the underlying reason why you think they are not allocated to your expectations.  When your rotation is mostly young and cheap, you aren't going to have a heavy allocation there. When your line up is young and cheap at the typically most expensive to fill positions such as SS, 3B, CF, etc, again,  you won't have a heavy allocation there either. That essentially leaves the pen to spend on.  And they did. They also spent to see guys like Grandal and to extend Lynn.

If that’s the case, then after the number of teams that completed rebuilds and won titles in the last 8 years I’m sure you can give an example of a team that did this. I’ll hang up and listen.

[southsider2k5]

32 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Nah, I've supported my viewpoints with the data; you were posting things that were never posted by me or anyone else.

 

Don't like the numbers? Tell us why the numbers lie.

Again, I have explained it twice. If you don't get it, that's cool too.

[Kyyle23]

39 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

You're a real pip. Plenty of others chimed in on the bad process, planning, and results up to this point. But I guess if you defend yourself  time and time again against the hordes of "Rainbow Bright " gang you're a nuisance. Ok everyone you are limited to one post of complaints now so make it a good one.

Why can't everyone just say what they want as much as they want ? You said your piece and now I've said mine.

Cali honestly I believe we can both agree to not care about each other's opinions because we both believe each other to be quite insufferable.  I think that will always apply. Have a good day 

[Two-Gun Pete]

7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Again, I have explained it twice. If you don't get it, that's cool too.

No, you strawmanned it twice. And honestly, thats fine.

Nowhere did I or anyone say that they were mad about the rebuild.

However, I and others have posted that we are disappointed in their chosen priorities wrt RPs vs RF vs SPs. I've posted the data as well.

A strawman argument starts with stating something that the other party never stated, then arguing against that. Thats fine, no big deal.

[CentralChamps21]

1 minute ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

No, you strawmanned it twice. And honestly, thats fine.

Nowhere did I or anyone say that they were mad about the rebuild.

However, I and others have posted that we are disappointed in their chosen priorities wrt RPs vs RF vs SPs. I've posted the data as well.

A strawman argument starts with stating something that the other party never stated, then arguing against that. Thats fine, no big deal.

Something happening first doesn't mean it was a priority, it means that it was an easier transaction to complete. Is it really that hard for you to understand that?

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

No, you strawmanned it twice. And honestly, thats fine.

Nowhere did I or anyone say that they were mad about the rebuild.

However, I and others have posted that we are disappointed in their chosen priorities wrt RPs vs RF vs SPs. I've posted the data as well.

A strawman argument starts with stating something that the other party never stated, then arguing against that. Thats fine, no big deal.

It started with the ridiculous strawman about allocation.

[Texsox]

13 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said:

Something happening first doesn't mean it was a priority, it means that it was an easier transaction to complete. Is it really that hard for you to understand that?

They shouldn't do anything until they find a lefty hitting right fielder. Then try to fill the second highest priority. They should only work on one thing at a time. That's the secret. 

 

[Rowand44]

*Mutes the word strawman*