White Sox Sign RP Joe Kelly (2yrs with a club option; $17m)

[wegner]

Just now, chw42 said:

And the bullpen was pretty bad in the postseason. I can see why they thought it needed to be improved.  

Oh it definitely needed to be improved although bullpens are often a crapshoot

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

None of the good OFs have signed dude. They were never signing a big SP. 

The Sox just spent 13 million; you're now pushing their payroll north of 200 million before a Conforto or outfield move. This team has done nothing to prove to me in the past that they're going to push that threshold, and I don't think they unload Kimbrel without taking some player with at least 50% of that contract back. 

[ptatc]

Just now, Two-Gun Pete said:

I'm curious as to exactly what you criticized, BTW.

You rightly fear Rodon"s injury history, but does Kopech not also have an injury history? At least Rodon showed that he's a SP; Kopech has all of what, 8 starts to his name?

And again, this is great. A 35 year old 2B, and a couple of relievers so far.

Kopech has had fewer injuries and fewer surgeries. Plus as I said the rotation can handle one of those but not 2 so that's why Rodon should go.

I like adding relievers for reasons I stated.

I know nothing about the 2B which doesn't fill me with confidence in the movd. As I said I hope he at least brings defense.

So I like what they've done I general. They are probably a little better than last year because of the development of young player.

[chitownsportsfan]

So you got a club option on a 33 year old that might pitch 50 innings in 2023, party time!

[fathom]

The funny thing is I guarantee other team fan bases hate their bullpen and wish their GM spent money on bullpen guys like the WSox.

[ptatc]

Just now, chitownsportsfan said:

So you got a club option on a 33 year old that might pitch 50 innings in 2023, party time!

Hopefully very impactful and post season innings.

[ptatc]

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

The funny thing is I guarantee other team fan bases hate their bullpen and wish their GM spent money on bullpen guys like the WSox.

Can never have too much pitching.

[SkokieSox]

16 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Since 2019, Kelly has pitched 11.1 innings in the post-season and given up 10 runs.

edit: I will say, compared to the Josh Harrison move this is like signing Babe Ruth.

Got to get there first and he’s an asset in that process 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

He’s made that clear. Just roll with kids. They’ll be just as good as a seasoned vet! 

I would have signed:

Jimmy Nelson and Daniel Norris if I was signing an outfielder. And then thrown a flier at Cam Bedrosian. 

Would have been cheaper, and the expected outcomes wouldn't be all that different. 

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, ptatc said:

Can never have too much pitching.

…looks at the starting rotation…

[fathom]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I would have signed:

Jimmy Nelson and Daniel Norris if I was signing an outfielder. And then thrown a flier at Cam Bedrosian. 

Would have been cheaper, and the expected outcomes wouldn't be all that different. 

Isn’t Nelson out for the year

[Chisoxfn]

1 hour ago, Heads22 said:

Yeah isn't Graveman unvaxxed?

Does it matter at this point? Presume MLB is going way of other leagues and things are just going to be more open? 
 

Side note - I don’t love all the money they spend on the pen, but Kelly is a good reliever and has tons of experience on good ball clubs. 
 

I also presume LaRussa is going to get JR to spend so I am more confident now they make one big signing. 

[Two-Gun Pete]

13 minutes ago, ptatc said:

1. Kopech has had fewer injuries and fewer surgeries. Plus as I said the rotation can handle one of those but not 2 so that's why Rodon should go.

2. I like adding relievers for reasons I stated.

3. I know nothing about the 2B which doesn't fill me with confidence in the movd. As I said I hope he at least brings defense.

4. So I like what they've done I general. They are probably a little better than last year because of the development of young player.

1.  Kopech, for as talented as he is, has never shown the ability to start at this level. Rodon has, and to good effect. They're both injury risks, but you've been more emphatic about one over the other, while ignoring their track records. Not impugning you in any way, but rather, pointing out what could be a blind spot for you.

2. The 2021 SOX BP pitched the fewest IP in MLB. Yet, they're the 2nd highest compensated group in the league. The rules of asset allocation suggest that this is not efficient, regardless of their effectiveness.

3.Here you go. Hes 34 going on 35. Hes a RHH journeyman projected to provide 1.2 fWAR. His glove is middling. Hes a more expensive token. For me, if it was Miller or Villar, you could at least squint and say that those 2 are LH and SH bats, respectively.

4. They subtracted 4.9 fWAR from the starting rotation, and are (I guess) wishing on Keuchel/Lopez/Lambert/Stiever taking quantum leaps forward. They're hoping (i guess) that Kopech to not only stay healthy, but to fo something hes never done before. They're hoping that Kopech can  provide a lot more IP at this level than hes ever done before. They've added a token 2B who doesn't help defensively, or hit LH. They're not done adding, but it doesn't look promising so far.

 

I guess TL;DR; I have my doubts. 

 

Now, you were saying that you criticized exactly what, now?

 

Thanks.

Edited March 13, 2022 by Two-Gun Pete

[chw42]

Just now, Chisoxfn said:

Does it matter at this point? Presume MLB is going way of other leagues and things are just going to be more open? 
 

Side note - I don’t love all the money they spend on the pen, but Kelly is a good reliever and has tons of experience on good ball clubs. 
 

I also presume LaRussa is going to get JR to spend so I am more confident now they make one big signing. 

I don't think unvaxxed players can play in Canada until Canada gets rid of their vaccine requirement. 

[ptatc]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

…looks at the starting rotation…

A deep bullpen can cover it

[Vote4Pedro]

6 minutes ago, fathom said:

The funny thing is I guarantee other team fan bases hate their bullpen and wish their GM spent money on bullpen guys like the WSox.

I’m all for continuing to add to the pen. There is no one out there on the relief market that should prevent you being able to spend the money needed to fill right field if you are truly all in like the front office keeps saying

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 minutes ago, fathom said:

Isn’t Nelson out for the year

I know he had that tendon surgery in August, wasn't sure if he was out for the year. 

edit: Give me Chris Martin if he's out for the year. I'd even take 1/2 year of Nelson though.

Edited March 13, 2022 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[gogosox1959]

1 minute ago, Chisoxfn said:

Does it matter at this point? Presume MLB is going way of other leagues and things are just going to be more open? 
 

Side note - I don’t love all the money they spend on the pen, but Kelly is a good reliever and has tons of experience on good ball clubs. 
 

I also presume LaRussa is going to get JR to spend so I am more confident now they make one big signing. 

The issue is that Canada is prohibiting an non-vaccinated players into Toronto.

[Eminor3rd]

2 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Just... exhausting. Hahn won't stop spending his assets on Relief pitchers. it's honestly amazing. 

Yeah, I just don't get this. More RPs is always a good thing, but there's just no rational argument that this money shouldn't be spent on an impact bat or starter. Scratching my head here just like with Graveman.

[ChiSox59]

17 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The Sox just spent 13 million; you're now pushing their payroll north of 200 million before a Conforto or outfield move. This team has done nothing to prove to me in the past that they're going to push that threshold, and I don't think they unload Kimbrel without taking some player with at least 50% of that contract back. 

Again, I’ll see how the next 3 weeks play out. You and others choose to focus on every negative possible. I will wait to see what happens. I’m not afraid to rip this team. But the offseason just restarted. Have a cocktail bro. 

[Two-Gun Pete]

16 minutes ago, ptatc said:

A deep bullpen can cover it

I like your positivity.

However, TLR and Katz used the fewest IP in MLB on the BP last season. They don't use openers. They don't split starts. They'll have to really alter their "strategery" WRT usage patterns. 

Especially with ouchy Kopech, and a pile of AAAA types on the periphery of the rotation. Oh, and let's hope that Lance Lynn, at 35 years old, and Keuchel at 34 years old can kick Father Time's ass this year. 

Edited March 13, 2022 by Two-Gun Pete

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

Again, I’ll see how the next 3 weeks play out. You and others choose to focus on every negative possible. I will wait to see what happens. I’m not afraid to rip this team. But the offseason just restarted. Have a cocktail bro. 

Had plenty; guy, we've been "waiting to see how such and such play out" for two decades. lol

[CentralChamps21]

1 minute ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

I like your positivity.

However, TLR and Katz used the fewest IP on the BP last season. They don't use openers. They'll have to really alter their "strategery" WRT usage patterns. 

Especially with ouchy Kopech, and a pile of AAAA types on the periphery of the rotation. Oh, and let's hope that Lance Lynn, at 35 years old, and Keuchel at 34 years old can kick Father Time's ass this year. 

Fat guys age well so Lynn should be fine, but I think Keuchel is not going to be any better than last year.

[chitownsportsfan]

I can't tell you who I'd have signed because I'm not privy to the valuations and the budget of the owner. That said, the signings the Sox have done so far are horse shit.

[Two-Gun Pete]

1 minute ago, CentralChamps21 said:

Fat guys age well so Lynn should be fine, but I think Keuchel is not going to be any better than last year.

Now, I'm reminded to not question the FO. I mean: Let. It. Go.

So, I won't criticize them. Rather, I'll point out that they're relying on nothing going wrong with SPs 1-3, either from injury or ineffectiveness. SP #4 is, as you say, Keuchel.  SP #5 is either a guy who hasn't provided multiple IP with regularity, or the AAAA gang.

 

So, instead of criticizing the FO, I'll hope that TLR and Katz will use this vaunted and expensive BP more than they have in 2021.

Godspeed.