White Sox Sign RP Joe Kelly (2yrs with a club option; $17m)

[maloney.adam]

The bullpen is going to be nasty.

[ptatc]

10 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

1.  Kopech, for as talented as he is, has never shown the ability to start at this level. Rodon has, and to good effect. They're both injury risks, but you've been more emphatic about one over the other, while ignoring their track records. Not impugning you in any way, but rather, pointing out what could be a blind spot for you.

2. The 2021 SOX BP pitched the fewest IP in MLB. Yet, they're the 2nd highest compensated group in the league. The rules of asset allocation suggest that this is not efficient, regardless of their effectiveness.

3.Here you go. Hes 34 going on 35. Hes a RHH journeyman projected to provide 1.2 fWAR. His glove is middling. Hes a more expensive token. For me, if it was Miller or Villar, you could at least squint and say that those 2 are LH and SH bats, respectively.

4. They subtracted 4.9 fWAR from the starting rotation, and are (I guess) wishing on Keuchel/Lopez/Lambert/Stiever taking quantum leaps forward. They're hoping (i guess) that Kopech to not only stay healthy, but to fo something hes never done before. They're hoping that Kopech can  provide a lot more IP at this level than hes ever done before. They've added a token 2B who doesn't help defensively, or hit LH. They're not done adding, but it doesn't look promising so far.

 

I guess TL;DR; I have my doubts. 

 

Now, you were saying that you criticized exactly what, now?

 

Thanks.

Kopech has had fewer injuries and fewer surgeries and has more control and is cheaper. He was the obvious choice to keep. If they traded him they could have kept Ridin. However I wouldn't have for previously stated reasons.

If the team is different, they should LaRussa and Katz should mange them differently.as I stated previously I'm not a fan for the way Katz handled the pitching last year so you could be right here.

If the 2B is subpar defensively I don't like it.

They can have one pitcher who won't pitch the full season.For all the reasons stated earlier, Kopech was the better choice.

As far as this season goes I prefer to wait until we have all of the information as in the full roster before making judgements. Making judgements based on partial information is rarely a good thing.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

If Sox are going to run a 215-220 million dollar payroll I'm fine with Graveman and Kelly, although I think very likely both take a step back. This is a head scratching move from a resource standpoint, less so from a player standpoint. 

Harrison is just head scratching in general, so I'll focus my negativity there lol.

[wegner]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

If Sox are going to run a 215-220 million dollar payroll I'm fine with Graveman and Kelly, although I think very likely both take a step back. This is a head scratching move from a resource standpoint, less so from a player standpoint. 

Harrison is just head scratching in general, so I'll focus my negativity there lol.

What realistic RF and SP moves would make you say, "ok I get it" Ray?

[CentralChamps21]

1 minute ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Now, I'm reminded to not question the FO. I mean: Let. It. Go.

So, I won't criticize them. Rather, I'll point out that they're relying on nothing going wrong with SPs 1-3, either from injury or ineffectiveness. SP #4 is, as you say, Keuchel.  SP #5 is either a guy who hasn't provided multiple IP with regularity, or the AAAA gang.

 

So, instead of criticizing the FO, I'll hope that TLR and Katz will use this vaunted and expensive BP more than they have in 2021.

Godspeed.

Every team is relying on nothing going wrong with their TOR guys. Nobody has 7 quality starters.

Criticizing the FO is fine, but have some discretion between criticizing the really bad moves rather than indiscriminately being against every single thing they do.

Not offering Rodon the QO was a huge mistake. Nearly everybody realizes that. Harrison might be a bad sign but it depends on what the rest of the final roster looks like.

[maloney.adam]

13 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

If Sox are going to run a 215-220 million dollar payroll I'm fine with Graveman and Kelly, although I think very likely both take a step back. This is a head scratching move from a resource standpoint, less so from a player standpoint. 

Harrison is just head scratching in general, so I'll focus my negativity there lol.

Almost every post of yours I’ve seen so far has been negative. 

Edited March 13, 2022 by maloney.adam

[ptatc]

8 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

I like your positivity.

However, TLR and Katz used the fewest IP in MLB on the BP last season. They don't use openers. They don't split starts. They'll have to really alter their "strategery" WRT usage patterns. 

Especially with ouchy Kopech, and a pile of AAAA types on the periphery of the rotation. Oh, and let's hope that Lance Lynn, at 35 years old, and Keuchel at 34 years old can kick Father Time's ass this year. 

If LaRussa and Katz need to change their philosophy to the team. I like the fact that they let their starters go longer but it should have been done later in the year instead of early. The same should apply this year with the shortened spring training.

I didn't like Katz last year. He has a chance to redeem himself.

[ptatc]

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

If Sox are going to run a 215-220 million dollar payroll I'm fine with Graveman and Kelly, although I think very likely both take a step back. This is a head scratching move from a resource standpoint, less so from a player standpoint. 

Harrison is just head scratching in general, so I'll focus my negativity there lol.

Never a mistake to commit resources to pitching. Unless it's for commitments over 4 years.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 minutes ago, wegner said:

What realistic RF and SP moves would make you say, "ok I get it" Ray?

If the Sox traded for someone like Tyler Mahle and signed one of Conforto/Castellanos this would make plenty of sense. 

If they plan on rolling into the season with Keuchel as the 5 and Engel/Vaughn/Sheets platooning RF/DH then this is just a terrible move.

[Two-Gun Pete]

21 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Kopech has had fewer injuries and fewer surgeries and has more control and is cheaper. He was the obvious choice to keep. If they traded him they could have kept Ridin. However I wouldn't have for previously stated reasons.

If the team is different, they should LaRussa and Katz should mange them differently.as I stated previously I'm not a fan for the way Katz handled the pitching last year so you could be right here.

If the 2B is subpar defensively I don't like it.

They can have one pitcher who won't pitch the full season.For all the reasons stated earlier, Kopech was the better choice.

As far as this season goes I prefer to wait until we have all of the information as in the full roster before making judgements. Making judgements based on partial information is rarely a good thing.

Ok, so you don't like the way, based on the info I've provided? Is there anything else? Because honestly, thats as negative as I've ever seen you go on RH.

Now: Let. It. Go.

 

Insofar as "only having 1 SP that will pitch the whole season," how does LAD do it? Why can THEY have (if memory serves) 9 pitchers with > 10 starts, but the SOX can't?

 

In terms of TLR/Katz altering their "strategery" WRT pitcher usage, one wonders if TLR still has the neuroplasticity at 77 years old to think differently. I doubt it, but since we all have to be positive here, I say that "I'm hopeful."

Edited March 13, 2022 by Two-Gun Pete

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

6 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

The bullpen is going to be nasty.

You're right if they are good or bad !

[ptatc]

Just now, Two-Gun Pete said:

Ok, so you don't like the way, based on the info I've provided? Is there anything else? Because honestly, thats as negative as I've ever seen you go on RH.

Now: Let. It. Go.

 

Insofar as "only having 1 SP that will pitch the whole season," how does LAD do it? Why can THEY have (if memory serves) 9 pitchers with > 10 status, but the SOX can't?

 

In terms of TLR/Katz altering their "strategery" WRT pitcher usage, one wonders if TLR still has the neuroplasticity at 77 years old to think differently. I doubt it, but since we all have to be positive here, I say that "I'm hopeful."

If that's the most negative you seen you must be very new to the board.

I've always liked TLR. I don't like the comments by Katz where he was go8ng to treat his pitchers like it was any year last year. His starters wore down at the end of the year. He wasn't smart by pushing them early. That's more Katz than TLR.

[Two-Gun Pete]

17 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said:

1. Every team is relying on nothing going wrong with their TOR guys. Nobody has 7 quality starters.

2. Criticizing the FO is fine, but have some discretion between criticizing the really bad moves rather than indiscriminately being against every single thing they do.

1. Do we have 4 quality starters? Do we have even 5 guys all capable of 140 IP, and not shitting their pants? TBH, I'm not sure.

2. I'm not criticizing them. But, here's a novel idea:

If RH/KW stop fucking up, then yes, posters can stop ripping them. But, if they keep shitting the bed, is it ok to make mention that what they've done is suboptimal?

 

Or should we all throw a fucking ticker tape parade for everything they do?

Edited March 13, 2022 by Two-Gun Pete

[CentralChamps21]

1 minute ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

If RH/KW stop fucking up, then yes, posters can stop ripping them.

Or should we all throw a fucking ticker tape parade for everything they do?

Here's a novel idea: look at everything as gray instead of black and white. Throw a ticket tape parade for the good things they do and get upset when the fuck up. If you can't see the good things they do, then maybe it's time to find a new team.

[southsider2k5]

4 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

1. Do we have 4 quality starters? Do we have even 5 guys all capable of 140 IP, and not shitting their pants? YBH, I'm not sure.

2. I'm not criticizing them. But, here's a novel idea:

If RH/KW stop fucking up, then yes, posters can stop ripping them. But, if they keep shitting the bed, is it ok to make mention that what they've done is suboptimal?

 

Or should we all throw a fucking ticker tape parade for everything they do?

Pete just canceled the White Sox.

Again. 

It's becoming a Parkman level run lately.

[ron883]

Oh My

[Two-Gun Pete]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

Pete just canceled the White Sox.

Again. 

It's becoming a Parkman level run lately.

Hey, as I said, I'm hopeful. I'm just not seeing it, yet.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

Just now, Two-Gun Pete said:

Hey, as I said, I'm hopeful. I'm just not seeing it, yet.

Rub one out, you’ll feel better after that 

[Two-Gun Pete]

4 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said:

Here's a novel idea: look at everything as gray instead of black and white. Throw a ticket tape parade for the good things they do and get upset when the fuck up. If you can't see the good things they do, then maybe it's time to find a new team.

And thats fair. What do you see in the additions that leads you to believe that this roster is better than the one from 2021?

Honest question. 

[Two-Gun Pete]

Just now, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

Rub one out, you’ll feel better after that 

I know, right?

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Hey, as I said, I'm hopeful. I'm just not seeing it, yet.

That's what Jack always said too.

[ptatc]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

That's what Jack always said too.

Nearly verbatim.

[Two-Gun Pete]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

That's what Jack always said too.

Thats insightful. Thank you.

[CentralChamps21]

Just now, Two-Gun Pete said:

And thats fair. What do you see in the additions that leads you to believe that this roster is better than the one from 2021?

Honest question. 

If there are no more moves, this roster is probably in the same neighborhood as 2021, but I don't believe that the moves are over.

[ptatc]

3 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

And thats fair. What do you see in the additions that leads you to believe that this roster is better than the one from 2021?

Honest question. 

Here's another honest question.

Is this the roster with which they will start the season?