Gavin Sheets

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, Jerksticks said:

Can Gavin and Vaughn be our DH?

Nope all righties all the time. It isn't that hard.

[KBX]

6 hours ago, MiddleCoastBias said:

Sheets' swing looks so smooth when he's confident. The latter half of the season, after he made some adjustments, he had great plate presence and looked confident that he could find a ball to drive. 

I'm excited to see that develop into what it could possibly be. Maybe that's as a White Sox or maybe that's with someone else, but he's one of those lefties where you can see some real potential to do some damage from that side of the plate.

If they're both with the club this November, I think we might like them both at 1B/DH, and let Abreu's 16 mil go in order to address other needs. It's kind of an awkward roster. Sheets to me just a good swing, a good presence. When he gets a hold of one it goes a long way. His big league sample is good for whatever it's worth, but to me he just looks like a big league hitter. I don't generally like to go any further than that. Honestly, we have no idea what the FO is gonna do because they're always pretty mum about everything. There may be a big trade or signing, or both, tomorrow. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

19 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

What do you think about Gavim moving forward?. Obviously defense isn't his thing, but can he be a nice platoon left handed DH type, who you hide on the field occasionally and hope it's not hit his way? Or is he a Palka, Delmonico type, never really highly regarded but had some early success before the league adjusted?

I really have no idea myself. I was quite surprised with all the big hits he supplied last season. 

https://www.soxon35th.com/what-to-make-of-gavin-sheets-heading-into-2022/

This should help anyone who wants to get a good analysis of Sheets. It's pretty positive on him as a hitter on both his walk and K rate, his ability to go oppo, the way he made adjustments . Not once do you see the writer talk about cherry picked AB's. The fact is , as it was for most Sox players , that they played a lot of bad teams with bad pitching. If you are a left handed power hitter you have to put the ball in the air and Sheets has worked hard on that throughout his minor league career.

Sheets also said Grandal was the most helpful to him. That's not a bad mentor. Take pitches , wait for your pitch, hit it in the air ,hit HRs and you will be fine. As the shortened signing period goes on.

His fielding left a lot to be desired in right but what if he had started in LF like Vaughn got to do? RF is a more difficult position and even after getting a lot of OF time in LF Vaughn didn't easily transition to RF either.

Sheets did most of his damage as a DH. According to the recent Soxtalk poll many are not expecting the Sox to fill the RF hole with a big LH bat. If they don't then Sheets presence in the lineup is a must until he proves he doesn't belong there . But what if he just keep getting better and proves he can hit 30+ HR's from the left side in his 1st full season. The Sox have had so many injuries that we have never got 30 HR's from Moncada or Robert and only 1 from Eloy . What if this is the year we can get 30+ from all of them ? Sheets was on a pace for 30+ HR's if he got 500 ABs

It's really difficult to separate Sheets from Vaughn in the Sox equation. I don't think the Sox want to get rid of either one of them but no one wants Vaughn to become the weak side of a DH platoon and no one wants either one of them playing RF.

If you are the super fan of Vaughn it's difficult to praise Sheets because if the Sox keep both, you absolutely have to give him AB's which  takes away Vaughn AB's.

 

Edited March 14, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[reiks12]

4 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

https://www.soxon35th.com/what-to-make-of-gavin-sheets-heading-into-2022/

This should help anyone who wants to get a good analysis of Sheets. It's pretty positive on him as a hitter on both his walk and K rate, his ability to go oppo, the way he made adjustments . Not once do you see the writer talk about cherry picked AB's. The fact is , as it was for most Sox players , that they played a lot of bad teams with bad pitching. If you are a left handed power hitter you have to put the ball in the air and Sheets has worked hard on that throughout his minor league career.

Sheets also said Grandal was the most helpful to him. That's not a bad mentor. Take pitches , wait for your pitch, hit it in the air ,hit HRs and you will be fine. As the shortened signing period goes on.

His fielding left a lot to be desired in right but what if he had started in LF like Vaughn got to do? RF is a more difficult position and even after getting a lot of OF time in LF Vaughn didn't easily transition to RF either.

Sheets did most of his damage as a DH. According to the recent Soxtalk poll many are not expecting the Sox to fill the RF hole with a big LH bat. If they don't then Sheets presence in the lineup is a must until he proves he doesn't belong there . But what if he just keep getting better and proves he can hit 30+ HR's from the left side in his 1st full season. The Sox have had so many injuries that we have never got 30 HR's from Moncada or Robert and only 1 from Eloy . What if this is the year we can get 30+ from all of them ? Sheets was on a pace for 30+ HR's if he got 500 ABs

It's really difficult to separate Sheets from Vaughn in the Sox equation. I don't think the Sox want to get rid of either one of them but no one wants Vaughn to become the weak side of a DH platoon and no one wants either one of them playing RF.

If you are the super fan of Vaughn it's difficult to praise Sheets because if the Sox keep both, you absolutely have to give him AB's which  takes away Vaughn AB's.

 

This is a great post and sums up my thoughts on Sheets. With how often our guys get hurt I like keeping Sheets on the roster this year and seeing if there is something to his offensive game thats worth a longer look. His approach at the plate was definitely not like Palka's, and he can provide a much needed lift to the left side of the batters box. Anyone who watched his atbats last season was impressed.

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

4 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

This is a great post and sums up my thoughts on Sheets. With how often our guys get hurt I like keeping Sheets on the roster this year and seeing if there is something to his offensive game thats worth a longer look. His approach at the plate was definitely not like Palka's, and he can provide a much needed lift to the left side of the batters box. Anyone who watched his atbats last season was impressed.

 

Ok I'll be that guy. Isn't a great post worth a like ?

[southsider2k5]

I really hope Gavin is what a lot of people convinced himself he is, but we are talking about 180 PAs, where the league didn't have much time to adjust to him, and most of those ABs were being cherry picked to give certain guys a rest, and Sheets a chance to do something.

We have seen so many guys like this and come up an have a big run, but once pitchers get the book out on them, they fade back away and are never heard from again.  The Daniel Palka's and Yermin Mercedes of the world.

The crazy thing is, even with his big splits, his lack of defense got him 0.2 WAR or 0.4 on Fangraphs, in a third of a season.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

26 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I really hope Gavin is what a lot of people convinced himself he is, but we are talking about 180 PAs, where the league didn't have much time to adjust to him, and most of those ABs were being cherry picked to give certain guys a rest, and Sheets a chance to do something.

We have seen so many guys like this and come up an have a big run, but once pitchers get the book out on them, they fade back away and are never heard from again.  The Daniel Palka's and Yermin Mercedes of the world.

The crazy thing is, even with his big splits, his lack of defense got him 0.2 WAR or 0.4 on Fangraphs, in a third of a season.

The author of the article I linked has 2 Degrees  with one of them Applied Mathematics. He analyzed him 6 ways using Sabermetrics , Chase Rate, Whiff Rate, Quality of Contact, Ground Ball Percentage, Plate Discipline and Mechanical Changes. He then went  into Defensive Shortcomings and Team Fit and a Final Verdict. He was very fair. He didn't use a term like cherry picked because as a RHB you have automatic built in advantage when the majority of pitchers are Righthanded and the advantage of bad pitching staffs against bad teams just like the rest of the hitters do.

The crazy thing is with 290 more plate appearances and  his lack of defense earned Vaughn a .3 fWAR. Gavin had a .4 just for the record. They are both 1st basemen playing the OF .If SHeets was in LF the majority of the time like Vaughn was he probably does just the same defensively.

Gavin led the Sox in Total bases in the playoffs despite being only 8th in plate appearances. That's what power hitting lefties facing playoff pitching can do and what the Sox are failing to address ATM.

[KBX]

That's a good article. It loos like there's no statistical signature that either rules out or predicts a repeat performance. In his rookie year he is not a dead pull hitter and shows some signs of selectivity and adjustment. He hits a variety of pitch types out of the park. He can pull letter high 95 mph and he goes down in the zone to get sinkers or changeups. He nods his head as he swings. I could see him reducing head movement. Hitting depends a lot on proprioception and not just vision, i.e. tracking the ball all the way to the barrel. One qualitative thing I like is his stance and presence. He looks like Chipper Jones. With this upright, open stance he looks like has an idea of who he is and what he can do. You don't bat like that in little league, you develop a quirky stance by thinking and adjusting. 

 

 

[Tnetennba]

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

I really hope Gavin is what a lot of people convinced himself he is, but we are talking about 180 PAs, where the league didn't have much time to adjust to him, and most of those ABs were being cherry picked to give certain guys a rest, and Sheets a chance to do something.

We have seen so many guys like this and come up an have a big run, but once pitchers get the book out on them, they fade back away and are never heard from again.  The Daniel Palka's and Yermin Mercedes of the world.

The crazy thing is, even with his big splits, his lack of defense got him 0.2 WAR or 0.4 on Fangraphs, in a third of a season.

Palk Smash had some fun dingers for terrible teams.  At this point I'm not convinced Sheets isn't on par with that and I'm certainly not making roster decisions because of him.  He also play's RF with about the same prowess as Palka.  I'm not dumping him for nothing but those that act like he's the second coming need to slow their respective rolls just a bit.  

[Perfect Vision]

Does anyone on here think the Sox won't extend Abreu on 1 or 2 year contracts after this year to be their DH?  That's why a trade of Vaughn or Sheets seems inevitable.

[Tnetennba]

8 minutes ago, Perfect Vision said:

Does anyone on here think the Sox won't extend Abreu on 1 or 2 year contracts after this year to be their DH?  That's why a trade of Vaughn or Sheets seems inevitable.

Abreu retires a White Sox IMO, so I think he's on the roster as long as he wants to keep playing.  I see a 2 year + option after his current deal is up.  I hope the dollars are rational/reasonable but I don't think they refuse to offer him a deal in any way.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

46 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Palk Smash had some fun dingers for terrible teams.  At this point I'm not convinced Sheets isn't on par with that and I'm certainly not making roster decisions because of him.  He also play's RF with about the same prowess as Palka.  I'm not dumping him for nothing but those that act like he's the second coming need to slow their respective rolls just a bit.  

For a team lacking in LH power and doing nothing to address that situation so far Gavin becomes more and more important every day and unfortunate as it may be it's going to come at Vaughns expense. No one is saying he is the second coming but for the White Sox playoff games Gavin had the most total bases with the 8th amount of plate appearances. It wasn't Eloy , Vaughn, Moncada, Grandal or Robert. He did well in a pressure situation that is something that Palka never did . Large amounts of Total bases coming from doubles and HR's in a high pressure situation is what drives winners through the playoffs.

You can continue to minimalize the importance of LH power and Gavin Sheets or you can hope he gets enough AB's at DH to prove he is as capable as he showed last year. I choose the latter without thinking he is the 2nd coming but through careful analysis that the article I linked showed.

[KBX]

The lone run in the last elimination game was the Sheets bomb that put the Sox up 1-0, which was followed by 10 unanswered runs. So he was the only guy who 'came ready to play' as Jerry Manuel would say.

 

[southsider2k5]

4 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

The author of the article I linked has 2 Degrees  with one of them Applied Mathematics. He analyzed him 6 ways using Sabermetrics , Chase Rate, Whiff Rate, Quality of Contact, Ground Ball Percentage, Plate Discipline and Mechanical Changes. He then went  into Defensive Shortcomings and Team Fit and a Final Verdict. He was very fair. He didn't use a term like cherry picked because as a RHB you have automatic built in advantage when the majority of pitchers are Righthanded and the advantage of bad pitching staffs against bad teams just like the rest of the hitters do.

The crazy thing is with 290 more plate appearances and  his lack of defense earned Vaughn a .3 fWAR. Gavin had a .4 just for the record. They are both 1st basemen playing the OF .If SHeets was in LF the majority of the time like Vaughn was he probably does just the same defensively.

Gavin led the Sox in Total bases in the playoffs despite being only 8th in plate appearances. That's what power hitting lefties facing playoff pitching can do and what the Sox are failing to address ATM.

All that tells me is how bad the rest of the offense was.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

7 minutes ago, KBX said:

The lone run in the last elimination game was the Sheets bomb that put the Sox up 1-0, which was followed by 10 unanswered runs. So he was the only guy who 'came ready to play' as Jerry Manuel would say.

 

Guess we can never trade him then

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

All that tells me is how bad the rest of the offense was.

White Sox hitting and Ranking in the AL

OPS+ 4th

OPS 4th

SLG. 6th

OBP 2nd.

BABIP 1st

Batting average 4th

BB% 2nd

SO% 10th which is a good thing the lower you're ranked the less you K.

HR% 12th .....Bad. obviously hurt by the losses of Eloy , Robert and Grandal for extended periods and Moncada being under .400 slugging for much of the year and finishing at .412

HardH% Hard hit rate. Percentage of balls with exit velo. at 95 MPH +  7th

Given all the injuries the Sox were a pretty good offensive team  but the lack of HR's hurt us in some power categories but team batting average, BABIP, BB% and OPS were all really good which kept us well above league average in over all offense.

[southsider2k5]

Just now, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

White Sox hitting and Ranking in the AL

OPS+ 4th

OPS 4th

SLG. 6th

OBP 2nd.

BABIP 1st

Batting average 4th

BB% 2nd

SO% 10th which is a good thing the lower you're ranked the less you K.

HR% 12th .....Bad. obviously hurt by the losses of Eloy , Robert and Grandal for extended periods and Moncada being under .400 slugging for much of the year and finishing at .412

HardH% Hard hit rate. Percentage of balls with exit velo. at 95 MPH +  7th

Given all the injuries the Sox were a pretty good offensive team  but the lack of HR's hurt us in some power categories but team batting average, BABIP, BB% and OPS were all really good which kept us well above league average in over all offense.

That was in response to your quip about where Gavin ranked In the playoffs. 

Though the irony here is you just made Rick Hahn's argument about why the Sox don't need to spend in free agency on a RF and can take a chance on a kid they are already have.

[BigHurt3515]

Want to give the guy a fair shake but that would mean him or Vaughn would be in RF a lot

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

14 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

That was in response to your quip about where Gavin ranked In the playoffs. 

Though the irony here is you just made Rick Hahn's argument about why the Sox don't need to spend in free agency on a RF and can take a chance on a kid they are already have.

Anderson, Robert Abreu and Sheets all did well but Sheet was the only one to have an extra base hit out of those 4 and he had a double and a HR . The only other HR 's were by Leury and Grandal. The only other doubles were by Leury and Vaughn. But we all know that the playoff pitching was the bigger culprit.

I did not know Hahn said the Sox didn't need to spend in FA on a RF. Perhaps you can provide me with that info. I thought he said something like we are confident in the players we have.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

51 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Guess we can never trade him then

We can trade him if we trade Kimbrel 1st and sign Conforto but I would feel much better keeping Sheets just like I'd feel better keeping Vaughn . The other LH power bats are Grandal and Moncada . Grandal is getting up there and injured often and Moncada had a paltry .412 SLG. % after spending almost the whole year below .400. It would be great if he can find the balance between putting his good eye to use by picking out some pitches to hit HR's . Grandal does it and Sheets did it in a small sample.

[ron883]

Platoon him with Abreu at DH

[tray]

The White Sox may have finally found a LH power bat...and Sheets  is a clutch hitter. Great launch angle on most of the HR in that highlight video.

Sheets height and reach would be assets defensively at 1B so I would like to see him play a few games there.

Whoever said Gavin looks like Chipper Jones nailed it.

Also, credit Jim Thome who has worked with Sheets.

 

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

White Sox hitting and Ranking in the AL

OPS+ 4th

OPS 4th

SLG. 6th

OBP 2nd.

BABIP 1st

Batting average 4th

BB% 2nd

SO% 10th which is a good thing the lower you're ranked the less you K.

HR% 12th .....Bad. obviously hurt by the losses of Eloy , Robert and Grandal for extended periods and Moncada being under .400 slugging for much of the year and finishing at .412

HardH% Hard hit rate. Percentage of balls with exit velo. at 95 MPH +  7th

Given all the injuries the Sox were a pretty good offensive team  but the lack of HR's hurt us in some power categories but team batting average, BABIP, BB% and OPS were all really good which kept us well above league average in over all offense.

Between the high BABIP and surprisingly low hard hit rate, this actually makes a case that the White Sox offense is at risk of taking a step backwards this year that I hadn't realized was there.

[VAfan]

On 3/13/2022 at 4:00 PM, ChiSox59 said:

Playing Sheets everyday means 1 of 3 things: 

1) Sox didn’t sign a real RF.

2) Sox traded Vaughn. 

3)  Sox are making Vaughn, a former #3 overall pIck, golden spikes winner and legitimate top prospect in the game, a part time player as a 24 year old. 

You don’t make those decisions based on a 150 PA SS, and even less so based on a postseason HR. 

You have to get over the "draft pedigree" argument, and go with who is producing.

Vaughn hit righties terribly last year, but crushed lefties.  He's a perfect platoon partner with Sheets for the moment.  

I would agree that Vaughn should also get some ABs against right handers to allow him to develop and improve.  That's one reason I've been against the Sox signing a RF who will just block ABs for Sheets/Vaughn.  

The last thing I'll say here is that the Sox absolutely need to give time to the productive CHEAP players on their roster.  People complain about giving Harrison and Garcia semi-expensive contracts to play 2B and utility roles, but are ready to trade away cost-controlled highly productive players like Sheets and Vaughn, and even Engel for that matter. 

Check out the Tampa Bay model.  They make use of young, cost controlled guys and win.  The young guys are also trying to make a name for themselves, are highly energized, and great additions to the team.  

I believe Gavin Sheets is already a stud and is only going to get better.  He damn well better do so with the Sox. 

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, VAfan said:

The last thing I'll say here is that the Sox absolutely need to give time to the productive CHEAP players on their roster.  People complain about giving Harrison and Garcia semi-expensive contracts to play 2B and utility roles, but are ready to trade away cost-controlled highly productive players like Sheets and Vaughn, and even Engel for that matter. 

Adam Engel is in his 2nd arb year and will probably cost over $2 million.