Offseason Part 3 - Because Part 2 Was a Dud

[bmags]

19 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

No.  They're a lot more away than that

I don’t know, prior to last year they were having success patching together rotations.

[SonofaRoache]

6 minutes ago, The Beast said:

A championship run organization would not replace Rodon with a flier or trot out a platoon in right field. I don’t give a damn about “AL favorites” or rankings.

We are only AL favorites because we have the easiest path to the playoffs and a top 2 seed. The Yankees, Astros, and Blue Jays are better than us. An argument can be made for TB if Glasnow gets healthy. 

[ChiSox59]

25 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

So the Twins are one started from being a legit wild card contender and two from being a division winning threat right away? Interesting.

Nah not really. Not surprised to see that be your take tho. I’d say they’re 1 ace, 1 mid rotation SP and a couple solid pen arms away from a WC contender. They look pretty .500ish right now to me. And that assumes Buxton and Correa stay healthy. 

[Bob Sacamano]

Yeah I still think they could finish behind the other 3 teams to be honest. I do enjoy when random teams sign stars though. I like seeing the talent spread out (ok maybe not so much when it’s our division, but they’ll likely still suck anyway haha)

[ChiSox59]

18 minutes ago, The Beast said:

And yet the Sox have holes but unlike a team serious about a championship, are unwilling to fill them. Instead they are being stubborn assclowns.

I’ll save the pitchforks until we see what the roster look like. 

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

We are only AL favorites because we have the easiest path to the playoffs and a top 2 seed. The Yankees, Astros, and Blue Jays are better than us. An argument can be made for TB if Glasnow gets healthy. 

Since I still have the window open, right  now Fangraphs has the white Sox with the 4th best playoff odds and 4th best World Series odds in the AL.

[Two-Gun Pete]

13 hours ago, ptatc said:

Again. I disagree with the Rodon comment for sure and maybe the Kimbrel option.

There us no evidence that Kimbrel being in the team currently has kept them from making any other moves. It's all conjecture at this point. If they get stuck with him then it all changes.

I think that, despite your background, people disagree with you because you speak out of both sides of your mouth. On the one hand, Rodon, who has pitched well and provided both 5 WAR & >100 IP in 2021 was "too risky" for a QO.

But OTOH, the guy whose been injured out of the pen (Kopec), kept getting ouchy when they tried extending him in 2021 should be counted on in 2022.

This is one reason why people disagree with you. It's a sort of blind spot for you.

 

The other thing is that time is linear. What this means is that who is on the 26 man/rotation on OD is often different at the TDL, which can be different at the post season. IOW, had they retained Rodon, the solution would have been simple:

1. OD: Rodon in rotation, Kopech stretching out in AAA

2. Around May 31st or so, or if Rodon gets ouchy, or Keuchel starts shitting his pants: Recall Kopech

Easy-peasy.

Rodon and Kopech together could have provided the IP and WAR this rotation needed. Only one or the other is/was too high an injury risk. 

OTOH, Kimbrel provides nothing for this roster. 

 

Edited March 19, 2022 by Two-Gun Pete

[ChiSox59]

7 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

For missing details here - the Twins used the iL for 500 days more than the White Sox last year. What did the Twins lose?

Two of their best offensive pieces in Donaldson and Garver. Their best 2 SP in Berrios and Pineda. Other than that, not much!

[The Beast]

10 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said:

So Kopech is a "flier" to you? Because he's replacing Rodon's 120-130 innings this year.

As for RF, there will be no platoon there if Vaughn is what everyone expected to be as a hitter out of college.

No. The flier is Velasquez. Kopech is a wildcard, he may not even be effective as a starter. That’s a question mark and something an organization who cares about winning an actual championship would do something about. Like a trade with Oakland or signing an actual starting pitcher instead of taking a flier. They would also consider needing more depth in the future given Giolito’s possible departure. 

6 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

We are only AL favorites because we have the easiest path to the playoffs and a top 2 seed. The Yankees, Astros, and Blue Jays are better than us. An argument can be made for TB if Glasnow gets healthy. 

That’s the concern, the Sox can coast to the playoffs but get trounced by other teams like the Houston treatment they got last year.

2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I’ll save the pitchforks until we see what the roster look like. 

Okay, that’s fine - April 8 is coming.

[KBX]

6 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

We are only AL favorites because we have the easiest path to the playoffs and a top 2 seed. The Yankees, Astros, and Blue Jays are better than us. An argument can be made for TB if Glasnow gets healthy. 

Only Toronto got better of that group, and I don't think they have the pitching to be all that fearsome. As for Glasnow, he's probably out till 23. There's definitely room for the Sox to win the AL by general improvement. In the firstp lace, their whole idea of a championship window or multiyear run hinges on getting a lot of excess value from young stars. Last year that was stunted by injuries. This year it could swing hard in the other direction. 

[Vote4Pedro]

14 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

For missing details here - the Twins used the iL for 500 days more than the White Sox last year. What did the Twins lose?

If you go position by position regardless of injuries, who you would take over what we currently have in our lineup. Kepler in RF is a for sure thing, but their lineup is not better than the Whitesox. The big difference between the two teams is the pitching staff for sure but I would still take the Sox lineup over the Twins.

[Bob Sacamano]

Sign…a RF….please

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, HahnsKiddieTable said:

If you go position by position regardless of injuries, who you would take over what we currently have in our lineup. Kepler in RF is a for sure thing, but their lineup is not better than the Whitesox. The big difference between the two teams is the pitching staff for sure but I would still take the Sox lineup over the Twins.

Right now, Fangraphs projections table gives the Twins the advantage at 2b, SS, CF (narrow), and RF. The big difference as you said is the pitching staff - but add a starter or two to the twins and they’re very close.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

3 minutes ago, HahnsKiddieTable said:

If you go position by position regardless of injuries, who you would take over what we currently have in our lineup. Kepler in RF is a for sure thing, but their lineup is not better than the Whitesox. The big difference between the two teams is the pitching staff for sure but I would still take the Sox lineup over the Twins.

White Sox win every single position and pitching staff except 2B, SS and RF.  They're not close

[Tnetennba]

2 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Sign…a RF….please

I'm mentally preparing for the "We like what we have" quote from Hahn when Conforto goes elsewhere and they don't trade for a SP.  Keeping hope alive but my expectations aren't high.

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

White Sox win every single position and pitching staff except 2B, SS and RF.  They're not close

Sure, if Robert manages to stay healthy with those two corners next to him.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

Just now, caulfield12 said:

Sure, if Robert manages to stay healthy with those two corners next to him.

Buxton also has health concerns (probably more so), so that statement doesn't hold any validity for me.

[SoxAce]

Twins defense is really, really good (and this isn't counting Buxton or their OFers).

[The Beast]

2 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

I'm mentally preparing for the "We like what we have" quote from Hahn when Conforto goes elsewhere and they don't trade for a SP.  Keeping hope alive but my expectations aren't high.

Same. And I am already thinking towards April or May where it doesn’t matter what the pen does because of how the rotation is doing. 

[pcq]

This was Boras getting a down-market team involved in a major signing and making the FA market more competitive overall. I think the ALC will be more of a contest than many believe. I think competition can be a healthy stimulus for a team that seems to lack an edge. It is quite possible the Twinks got tired of Donaldson and what a way to turn things around. 

[EloyJenkins]

Anyone who thinks the astros are better...what have they done this off-season to prove that? They lost their best player, their key bullpen piece (to us) and havent added anyone significant....and their ace is starting year on IL. I dont see it.

Edited March 19, 2022 by EloyJenkins

[Jack Parkman]

Just now, EloyJenkins said:

Anyone who thinks the astros are better...what have they done this off-season to prove that? They lost their best player, their key bullpen piece (to us) and havent added anyone significant....and their ace isnt starting year on IL. I dont see it.

Verlander is back. 

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, EloyJenkins said:

Anyone who thinks the astros are better...what have they done this off-season to prove that? They lost their best player, their key bullpen piece (to us) and havent added anyone significant....and their ace isnt starting year on IL. I dont see it.

Unless Verlander continues his Tom Brady act upon return...

[SoxAce]

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

Unless Verlander continues his Tom Brady act upon return...

Brady wasn't coming off a serious injury though. Verlander will be good I feel, just not THAT Verlander again in my opinion. Not too many guys coming off TJS that late in their careers and he's 39 now.

[ptatc]

20 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

I think that, despite your background, people disagree with you because you speak out of both sides of your mouth. On the one hand, Rodon, who has pitched well and provided both 5 WAR & >100 IP in 2021 was "too risky" for a QO.

But OTOH, the guy whose been injured out of the pen (Kopec), kept getting ouchy when they tried extending him in 2021 should be counted on in 2022.

This is one reason why people disagree with you. It's a sort of blind spot for you.

 

The other thing is that time is linear. What this means is that who is on the 26 man/rotation on OD is often different at the TDL, which can be different at the post season. IOW, had they retained Rodon, the solution would have been simple:

1. OD: Rodon in rotation, Kopech stretching out in AAA

2. Around May 31st or so, or if Rodon gets ouchy, or Keuchel starts shitting his pants: Recall Kopech

Easy-peasy.

Rodon and Kopech together could have provided the IP and WAR this rotation needed. Only one or the other is/was too high an injury risk. 

OTOH, Kimbrel provides nothing for this roster. 

 

I do not talk out of both sides of fmy mouth. 

I can't help you refuse to see any view but your own.

If you can't understand that Rodon has never pitched a full year in his career and is a risk to not do it again, I can't help you.

Did he pitch well, Yes, in a partial season.

Will he ever pitch a full season? That is the wager you take by offering him a deal.

I have been consistent in everything I've said. Your perception of that is something I can't control.