Offseason Part 3 - Because Part 2 Was a Dud

[SonofaRoache]

12 minutes ago, Whisox05 said:

 

 

Didn't Stone just imply nothing else was happening or needed to? 

[Balta1701]

Steve Stone just isn't a White Sox fan, apparently.

[ptatc]

15 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

Didn't Stone just imply nothing else was happening or needed to? 

Wasn't his comment related to right field exclusively?

Maybe he think an SP is still a possibility?

[caulfield12]

7 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Wasn't his comment related to right field exclusively?

Maybe he think an SP is still a possibility?

They pretty much have to do something with all the uncertainty around Kopech…just not getting hopes too high it’s someone like Montas.

Edited March 29, 2022 by caulfield12

[ptatc]

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

They pretty much have to do something with all the uncertainty around Kopech…just not getting hopes too high it’s someone like Montas.

They need to make sure the best pitchers aren't overworked early in the year. Not sure if it's acquiring an SP or just many calls to the pen.

The game thread are going to freak when pitchers are pulled in the 4th and looking good but it's going to need to be done.

[caulfield12]

5 minutes ago, ptatc said:

They need to make sure the best pitchers aren't overworked early in the year. Not sure if it's acquiring an SP or just many calls to the pen.

The game thread are going to freak when pitchers are pulled in the 4th and looking good but it's going to need to be done.

Well, other than the no hitter, that would have been the route to go with Rodon last year.  Same with Lynn, who faded down the stretch as well.

With a bigger contract than $3 million or team control in 2022 for Los, they would have treated him with kid gloves as a team asset.  
 

They certainly didn’t push Kopech and Crochet last year, for example.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

16 minutes ago, ptatc said:

They need to make sure the best pitchers aren't overworked early in the year. Not sure if it's acquiring an SP or just many calls to the pen.

The game thread are going to freak when pitchers are pulled in the 4th and looking good but it's going to need to be done.

yes, babying arms and managing innings with a microscope has been great for long term and short term pitcher health over the past 15-20 years...

[Balta1701]

6 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

yes, babying arms and managing innings with a microscope has been great for long term and short term pitcher health over the past 15-20 years...

Because there’s no other effect there. It’s not like the average fastball velocity has increased by roughly 5 mph over that time, because if that was the case then no one would talk about babying arms.

[Chicago White Sox]

9 hours ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Yeah, damn pesky Rays for actually putting in the work into scouting and developing players. And damn them, too, for recognizing that RPs are supposed to be cheap. 

 

8 hours ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

And we've already covered this many times.

 

The Rays had different needs than the SOX. They also have much more MiLB depth from which to trade. Most importantly, they're actually competent enough to have not blown a hole in their MLB roster to add something they didn't need.

 

Or, are you trying to argue that it was GOOD to add Kimbrel? If so, please share with us.

 

Thanks in advance.

Wait, are you arguing that Kimbrel’s $16M salary is cheap?  Because if not, we certainly haven’t covered this subject.

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

Steve Stone just isn't a White Sox fan, apparently.

Boyer must have gotten on the horn about making some token effort to excite/motivate/encourage fans instead of disparage them. TLR certainly wasn't going to walk back his comments or admit he misspoke. (On the plus side, his off the cuff words can't precipitate the launch of tactical nuclear weapons at least.)

Edited March 29, 2022 by caulfield12

[Tnetennba]

1 hour ago, Whisox05 said:

 

 

Sure they are Stoney…

[Tnetennba]

1 hour ago, ptatc said:

Wasn't his comment related to right field exclusively?

Maybe he think an SP is still a possibility?

Yeah I think it was just in reference to a question about adding Conforto or a RF. 

[Jack Parkman]

Hey guys I think I found Hahn. He's the British guy in the video

 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

34 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Because there’s no other effect there. It’s not like the average fastball velocity has increased by roughly 5 mph over that time, because if that was the case then no one would talk about babying arms.

Max effort plays a part as well, but babying arms have not protected them. If anything, it allows a more max effort approach too.

[ptatc]

55 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Well, other than the no hitter, that would have been the route to go with Rodon last year.  Same with Lynn, who faded down the stretch as well.

With a bigger contract than $3 million or team control in 2022 for Los, they would have treated him with kid gloves as a team asset.  
 

They certainly didn’t push Kopech and Crochet last year, for example.

Agreed. Katz did not handle a MLB staff well in his first shot. Hopefully he learned something from it.

[SoCalChiSox]

13 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Boyer must have gotten on the horn about making some token effort to excite/motivate/encourage fans instead of disparage them. TLR certainly wasn't going to walk back his comments or admit he misspoke. (On the plus side, his off the cuff words can't precipitate the launch of tactical nuclear weapons at least.)

For a second there I was getting excited when I read Stone's note but now I think your post more accurately sums up the dynamics of what is really going on. 

There is still likely no intent to meaningfully add before the season but they had Stone put that out there to encourage fans as a way of making up for TLR's tone deaf fuck up. 

"They're still hard at work burning the midnight oil guys....now something may not materialize until the deadline or even till next year but they are working to make it better.....no really!"

[ptatc]

48 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

yes, babying arms and managing innings with a microscope has been great for long term and short term pitcher health over the past 15-20 years...

Over the last 15-20 years there haven't been very many shortened spring trainings when the pitchers aren't ready to go.

Physiology is Physiology. There are some things that don't change.

Pitchers so need to throw more in general but not when they aren't ready.

[maxjusttyped]

3 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Agreed. Katz did not handle a MLB staff well in his first shot. Hopefully he learned something from it.

I don't think you can look at the pitchers who made starts last season and say Katz didn't maximize their performance. If you think guys wore down, fair enough, then I would say blame would lie on the front office for not creating more upper minors depth than anything Katz could have done differently at the major league level.

[ptatc]

1 minute ago, maxjusttyped said:

I don't think you can look at the pitchers who made starts last season and say Katz didn't maximize their performance. If you think guys wore down, fair enough, then I would say blame would lie on the front office for not creating more upper minors depth than anything Katz could have done differently at the major league level.

I just going on his comments about treating last year like any other year. The "pre season" was so messed up and COVID caused so many issues, he should not have pushed them physically so early.

All of the performance improvements won't matter if they can't pitch.

The greatest ability is availability. 

As I said hopefully he learned. That was his first time working as the primary pitching coach. He now needs to make sure they are ready for a full season and with the disadvantage of a shortened Spring Training. 

[caulfield12]

19 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

I don't think you can look at the pitchers who made starts last season and say Katz didn't maximize their performance. If you think guys wore down, fair enough, then I would say blame would lie on the front office for not creating more upper minors depth than anything Katz could have done differently at the major league level.

The ENTIRE goal was to be ready for post-season success.   Rodon and Lynn were already pitching on fumes by that point.

I know that we will hear Kopech's injury got in the way of that plan to give him starts down the stretch...although it's hard to imagine them starting him over Lynn, Giolito or Cease unless he was just completely lights out down the stretch.

Edited March 30, 2022 by caulfield12

[ptatc]

The Dodgers lineup is so awesome and deep that Jake Lamb may start for them. With that payroll, he is the best they can do?

https://www.dodgersnation.com/dodgers-jake-lamb-is-forcing-his-way-into-the-opening-day-lineup/2022/03/29/

 

[caulfield12]

21 minutes ago, ptatc said:

The Dodgers lineup is so awesome and deep that Jake Lamb may start for them. With that payroll, he is the best they can do?

https://www.dodgersnation.com/dodgers-jake-lamb-is-forcing-his-way-into-the-opening-day-lineup/2022/03/29/

 

But it also notes near the end of the article that he's not on the current 40 man roster, making his situation a bit more precarious.

Right now, you would have to bench a former MVP in Bellinger to get him in the line-up, and they're just not going to do that before the season even starts.  If Justin Turner is ouchy, he could get some starts at 3B in the early season.   The highly-touted Gavin Lux, for example, doesn't even have a spot at the moment.

https://www.fangraphs.com/roster-resource/depth-charts/dodgers

It's currently a battle with Alberto (guaranteed MLB deal), Edwin Rios and Lux for INF/OF utility spots to fill out the roster.

 

Other than Luis Robert in CF (over former MVP Bellinger), there aren't many clear wins for the Sox line-up.  At this point, you have to go with Moncada over Turner (if you discount all their post-season successes and go with the better player in 2022.)   You can certainly argue Pollock/Jimenez (not based on fWAR, obviously, more potential), and W.Smith/Grandal (who they wanted to get rid of a LONG time ago because of his defensive lapses), we don't have many players that would be starting in the current Dodgers' line-up.  There's no way you would take TA7 over Trea Turner.   Let's split the difference, that gives us 2 1/2 or 3 out 10 spots if you include Muncy vs. whoever we have at DH.

Their line-up is THAT good, barring catastrophic injuries.

Edited March 30, 2022 by caulfield12

[Big Hurtin]

56 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Sure they are Stoney…

[caulfield12]

30. Chicago White Sox
2021 midseason rank: 30
2021 preseason rank: 16
2020 midseason rank: 6
2020 preseason rank: 11
Top 100 Prospects: none

Though the White Sox rank last again, their system was a mainstay in the top 10 from 2017-20 and cranked out a lot of talent en route to the first back-to-back playoff appearances in franchise history. As with the big league club, many of the organization's top prospects hail from Cuba: slugging outfielders Oscar Colas and Yoelqui Céspedes, right-hander Norge Vera, infielders Bryan Ramos and Yolbert Sanchez. More »

 

from mlb.com's #16-30 minor league system preseason rankings

[maxjusttyped]

12 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

The ENTIRE goal was to be ready for post-season success.   Rodon and Lynn were already pitching on fumes by that point.

I'm not sure what Katz specifically could have done differently. Determining how long Rodon or Lynn's IL stints should have been during the 2nd half last year, or how they should have managed those guys' innings leading up to the playoffs strikes me much more as a medical staff decision rather than a pitching coach one.

Most contending teams had health issues on their pitching staff last season anyways. It happens. That's baseball. We saw McCullers break in game 4 against the Sox. Obviously they didn't have Verlander for all of last season because of TJS. Does Brent Strom deserve blame for some of the Astros pitchers not being available in the ALCS/World Series? What about Mark Prior for the Dodgers because they weren't able to get Kershaw all the way through the playoffs? The Rays do a great job developing pitchers, but Glasnow broke, so maybe their pitching coach should be criticized too. I don't know. There is no way to keep every pitcher healthy and strong for what you're hoping is a 7 month season. The Sox had one of the best pitching staffs in baseball last season. Giolito, Cease, and Rodon all made huge leaps under his tutelage. Without Katz, I don't think any of those 3 pitchers would be at the level they are now. It's just very difficult for me to spend much time criticizing him when there are 3 glaring examples of him making pitchers better in such a relatively short amount of time.