Balta1701 Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 18 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: The anti-jinx worked tonight, but wouldn't hold up if he was on your fantasy team during the regular season as a member of the Sox. I get to say “I told you so” on this one man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 1 minute ago, Balta1701 said: I get to say “I told you so” on this one man. Yeah, but does this increase his trade value now...? Or desirability? Because those arguing or asserting "yes" are the same ones with no concerns about lingering issues with veteran Kimbrel just getting his work in. Interestingly, Kershaw, Rodon and Verlander have all been pitching quite well so far in the spring...three of the vets with serious question marks surrounding them in the last 6 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 21 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Yeah, but does this increase his trade value now...? Or desirability? Because those arguing or asserting "yes" are the same ones with no concerns about lingering issues with veteran Kimbrel just getting his work in. Interestingly, Kershaw, Rodon and Verlander have all been pitching quite well so far in the spring...three of the vets with serious question marks surrounding them in the last 6 months. No a spring training performance does not substantially change his trade value beyond the fact that he’s healthy. I just knew he was going to have a great game today because you said he’d be terrible against the Dodgers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 21 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: No a spring training performance does not substantially change his trade value beyond the fact that he’s healthy. I just knew he was going to have a great game today because you said he’d be terrible against the Dodgers. Hence, the difficulty of betting baseball on an everyday basis and making money at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-Gun Pete Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 4 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: Wait, are you arguing that Kimbrel’s $16M salary is cheap? Because if not, we certainly haven’t covered this subject. Wut? I mean, really, what are you arguing? Tampa spends ~11-ish% of their payroll on RPs, and had the most IP by any team, and the most fWAR by RPs in MLB. They're currently at ~$9MM on RP salaries, yet they'll likely finish near or above the SOX in IP and fWAR by RPs, despite the SOX having the most expensive bullpen in MLB history. They're pretty much the textbook definition of payroll efficiency with this position group. That they weren't stupid enough to overspend in trade to get Kimbrel shows that they're just outright smarter than KW/RH on this. Seriously, what are you arguing here? Or, are you just defending your previous argument that it was a good thing to trade for Kimbrel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Two-Gun Pete said: Wut? I mean, really, what are you arguing? Tampa spends ~11-ish% of their payroll on RPs, and had the most IP by any team, and the most fWAR by RPs in MLB. They're currently at ~$9MM on RP salaries, yet they'll likely finish near or above the SOX in IP and fWAR by RPs, despite the SOX having the most expensive bullpen in MLB history. They're pretty much the textbook definition of payroll efficiency with this position group. That they weren't stupid enough to overspend in trade to get Kimbrel shows that they're just outright smarter than KW/RH on this. Seriously, what are you arguing here? Or, are you just defending your previous argument that it was a good thing to trade for Kimbrel? They surely have run all the analytics a million times. Even being offered Kimbrel would not sway them because it would be too lengthy a salary commitment at premium dollars to be worth it...when closers are always available at the TDL for just 2-3 months of payroll outlay. You can't afford $16 million with an $82 million payroll. You really can't keep paying Kiermaier...especially post Franco deal. Finally, massive difference vs. Toronto/NYY/Boston and the comparatively tepid NL Central offenses. Edited March 30, 2022 by caulfield12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 6 hours ago, Two-Gun Pete said: Wut? I mean, really, what are you arguing? Tampa spends ~11-ish% of their payroll on RPs, and had the most IP by any team, and the most fWAR by RPs in MLB. They're currently at ~$9MM on RP salaries, yet they'll likely finish near or above the SOX in IP and fWAR by RPs, despite the SOX having the most expensive bullpen in MLB history. They're pretty much the textbook definition of payroll efficiency with this position group. That they weren't stupid enough to overspend in trade to get Kimbrel shows that they're just outright smarter than KW/RH on this. Seriously, what are you arguing here? Or, are you just defending your previous argument that it was a good thing to trade for Kimbrel? This isn’t very hard. You literally just said that Tampa Bay knows that relief pitchers should be cheap, but ignore the fact they actively pursued one of the most expensive relievers in the game last trade deadline. I’m not arguing anything here, just pointing out that your claim isn’t true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-Gun Pete Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 6 hours ago, caulfield12 said: They surely have run all the analytics a million times. Even being offered Kimbrel would not sway them because it would be too lengthy a salary commitment at premium dollars to be worth it...when closers are always available at the TDL for just 2-3 months of payroll outlay. You can't afford $16 million with an $82 million payroll. You really can't keep paying Kiermaier...especially post Franco deal. Finally, massive difference vs. Toronto/NYY/Boston and the comparatively tepid NL Central offenses. Exactly. CWS clings to this idea that because Tampa and LAD looked into Kimbrel, that it was a good idea to trade for him. Tampa was smart to kick the tires, but even smarter to not trade for him. 1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said: This isn’t very hard. You literally just said that Tampa Bay knows that relief pitchers should be cheap, but ignore the fact they actively pursued one of the most expensive relievers in the game last trade deadline. I’m not arguing anything here, just pointing out that your claim isn’t true. Yes. And did they trade for him, yes or no? They checked, and likely decided that the price the SOX offered was both stupid and too high to pay for Kimbrel. That aside, you keep bringing up that "Tampa pursued Kimbrel," as if that means anything. Every team has different needs at the TDL, and closer was not one of ours. Just like a Tesla owner doesn't need spark plugs for his car; so who cares if the Lexus owner insists on iridium plugs for his? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 10 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said: Exactly. CWS clings to this idea that because Tampa and LAD looked into Kimbrel, that it was a good idea to trade for him. Tampa was smart to kick the tires, but even smarter to not trade for him. Yes. And did they trade for him, yes or no? They checked, and likely decided that the price the SOX offered was both stupid and too high to pay for Kimbrel. That aside, you keep bringing up that "Tampa pursued Kimbrel," as if that means anything. Every team has different needs at the TDL, and closer was not one of ours. Just like a Tesla owner doesn't need spark plugs for his car; so who cares if the Lexus owner insists on iridium plugs for his? Keep moving them goal posts brother 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-Gun Pete Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Keep moving them goal posts brother LOL, I've been consistent that the SOX never needed a closer, that they've needed a RFer first. And even before the trade was made, I posted that it was a stupid idea to pursue Kimbrel. OTOH, you initially celebrated the Kimbrel deal, and claimed that it was a good idea. And thats cool, everybody gets things wrong at times. Now, you've been beating the drum for RFer Conforto so hard that I'm afraid that you'll end up moving further southeast if he doesn't sign here. Is Savanah, GA your next port of call? Edited March 30, 2022 by Two-Gun Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 2 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said: LOL, I've been consistent that the SOX never needed a closer, that they've needed a RFer first. And even before the trade was made, I posted that it was a stupid idea to pursue Kimbrel. OTOH, you initially celebrated the Kimbrel deal, and claimed that it was a good idea. And thats cool, everybody gets things wrong at times. Now, you've been beating the drum for RFer Conforto so hard that I'm afraid that you'll end up moving further southeast if he doesn't sign here. Is Savanah, GA your next port of call? Jekyll Island 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiks12 Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 Rodon dominated yesterday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 15 minutes ago, reiks12 said: Rodon dominated yesterday If you are a free agent pitcher getting 1-2 year deals thrown at you, why on earth would you go anywhere but SF (or milwaukee I guess). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 I think Rodon should dominate as long as he is healthy. The question is how long will that last? Probably long enough for a QO, but Craig Kimbrel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 45 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Get it done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiks12 Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 7 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: I think Rodon should dominate as long as he is healthy. The question is how long will that last? Probably long enough for a QO, but Craig Kimbrel. even a rodon that only throws 125 innings at last years level is worth a QO at least. Hell id pay 20 million a year for it. The gamble and risk was well worth it, and if he turned it down you could get a second round pick. I am really interested to see how the Giants go about handling his workload, but his arm looks good right now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 4 minutes ago, reiks12 said: even a rodon that only throws 125 innings at last years level is worth a QO at least. Hell id pay 20 million a year for it. The gamble and risk was well worth it, and if he turned it down you could get a second round pick. I am really interested to see how the Giants go about handling his workload, but his arm looks good right now. While this is true, who replaces him in the rotation for the end of the season and the playoffs? The Sox would need to have 6 quality starting pitchers because Kopech and Rodon would need to have many days off between them. What pitcher would want to come to pitching when they know they will only pitch half a season because kopech and rodon would be the primary pitchers in the part time rotation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-Gun Pete Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, ptatc said: While this is true, who replaces him in the rotation for the end of the season and the playoffs? The Sox would need to have 6 quality starting pitchers because Kopech and Rodon would need to have many days off between them. What pitcher would want to come to pitching when they know they will only pitch half a season because kopech and rodon would be the primary pitchers in the part time rotation? Has Kopech even thrown in a game yet this spring training? And we've covered your question already; it really wouldn't be that hard to do, if Rodon accepted the QO: 1. OD: Rodon in rotation, Kopech in AAA to slowly get stretched out. 2. If Rodon gets injured, or if another SP falters at or before the TDL, recall Kopech. 3. At the TDL, instead of trading for another fucking RP, actually trade for what you need. If it happens to be a SP, trade for a SP at the TDL. 4. If Rodon pitches well and stays healthy, SO MUCH THE BETTER. At ~$18MM/year he was easily worth the QO, full stop. It's a 1 year deal, not a multi-year marriage. See? It ain't that hard. Edited March 30, 2022 by Two-Gun Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 11 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said: Has Kopech even thrown in a game yet this spring training? And we've covered your question already; it really wouldn't be that hard to do, if Rodon accepted the QO: 1. OD: Rodon in rotation, Kopech in AAA to slowly get stretched out. 2. If Rodon gets injured, or if another SP falters at or before the TDL, recall Kopech. 3. At the TDL, instead of trading for another fucking RP, actually trade for what you need. If it happens to be a SP, trade for a SP at the TDL. 4. If Rodon pitches well and stays healthy, SO MUCH THE BETTER. At ~$18MM/year he was easily worth the QO, full stop. It's a 1 year deal, not a multi-year marriage. See? It ain't that hard. 1. Not going to happen as they aren't going to waste kopechs few innings in the minors 2. If kopech uses his limited innings in the minors, he won't be able to be called up as he will be done for the year. 3. They could trade for a SP but as you so often point out they don't have enough to trade for a quality pitcher. 4. True. If he does. Odds aren't good but possible See it's easy . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said: Ok everyone, best and final offers (real meaning of the term, not MLB owner meaning) for Manaea. GO! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 6 minutes ago, Quin said: Ok everyone, best and final offers (real meaning of the term, not MLB owner meaning) for Manaea. GO! Their choice of Kelley/Thompson/Dalquist + Adolfo. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 3 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Their choice of Kelley/Thompson/Dalquist + Adolfo. Honestly that doesn’t seem like enough for Oakland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 12 minutes ago, Quin said: Ok everyone, best and final offers (real meaning of the term, not MLB owner meaning) for Manaea. GO! I would really be curious what their ask and our offer look like at this moment. I wonder how far apart we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts