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Offseason Part 3 - Because Part 2 Was a Dud

CentralChamps21

By CentralChamps21
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caulfield12 Grand Master

caulfield12

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

I'm bored.. Here's my lineup:

1. Anderson

2. Robert

3. Abreu

4. Eloy

5. Grandal

6. Moncada

7. Vaughn

8. Pollack

9. Harrison/Leury

 

There really is no good way to balance this lineup IF Moncada can't turn back to 2019. 

Pollack is a former UGA linebacker, not to be confused with a fish or AJ.  Definitely not to be confused with polack, a pejorative for Polish people.

Edited by caulfield12
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Y2Jimmy0
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Dude go fuck yourself. Seriously. Keep my name out of your mouth. 

fathom
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Huge news...Kimbrel spotted near the Dodgers Spring Training complex.

Y2Jimmy0
Y2Jimmy0

Yes. Sox would forfeit like the 65th pick, the bonus pool amount associated and $500K in international space. They should be willing to do it though.  This offseason hasn't been a good one for

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maxjusttyped Grand Master

maxjusttyped

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Grandal has the best wRC+ on the team over the last 2 years. That plus the fact he balances out handiness issues has me questioning the logic behind pushing him into the 5 or 6 range. I also think the idea of getting his OBP in front of low walk/high slug options like Abreu & Eloy is very appealing.

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chw42 Grand Master

chw42

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Just now, maxjusttyped said:

this is from Fegan's latest column

https://theathletic.com/3224442/2022/04/01/craig-kimbrel-departs-amid-eventful-day-at-white-sox-camp/?source=emp_shared_article

Haha I was just about to post about this. 

So all the guys that were speculated in this thread - Pollock, Bellinger, and Meadows were all probably discussed for Kimbrel at some point. 

It makes sense cause the Rays and Dodgers were both clearly interested in Kimbrel at the deadline last season. 

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chw42 Grand Master

chw42

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31 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

Grandal has the best wRC+ on the team over the last 2 years. That plus the fact he balances out handiness issues has me questioning the logic behind pushing him into the 5 or 6 range. I also think the idea of getting his OBP in front of low walk/high slug options like Abreu & Eloy is very appealing.

Grandal should be the #4 hitter. I hate the idea of batting him and Moncada too close together as those 2 are the only established hitters in this lineup from the left side. 

At this point I'd go with

1. Anderson

2. Robert

3. Abreu (I wouldn't do this, but we all know TLR is gonna hit him 3rd)

4. Grandal

5. Eloy

6. Moncada

7. Pollock

8. Vaughn/Sheets

9. Harrison/Leury

I think the top 8 in this order can compete with just about any lineup out there in baseball. 

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CentralChamps21 Grand Master

CentralChamps21

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This will never happen, but I would do:

vs RHP: Robert, Moncada, Abreu, Grandal, Eloy, TA, Pollock/Vaughn, Sheets, Leury

vs LHP: TA, Robert, Abreu, Eloy, Grandal, Moncada, Pollock, Vaughn, Harrison

If  Luery/Harrison platoon at 2B is your weak spot in the lineup, that's a damn good lineup.

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chw42 Grand Master

chw42

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3 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said:

This will never happen, but I would do:

vs RHP: Robert, Moncada, Abreu, Grandal, Eloy, TA, Pollock/Vaughn, Sheets, Leury

vs LHP: TA, Robert, Abreu, Eloy, Grandal, Moncada, Pollock, Vaughn, Harrison

If  Luery/Harrison platoon at 2B is your weak spot in the lineup, that's a damn good lineup.

Against LHP, I'd go as far as to drop Yoan to 7th in the lineup. He just doesn't hit very well from the right side. 

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Chicago White Sox Grand Master

Chicago White Sox

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1 hour ago, maxjusttyped said:

Grandal has the best wRC+ on the team over the last 2 years. That plus the fact he balances out handiness issues has me questioning the logic behind pushing him into the 5 or 6 range. I also think the idea of getting his OBP in front of low walk/high slug options like Abreu & Eloy is very appealing.

Grandal should bat 3rd IMO

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maxjusttyped Grand Master

maxjusttyped

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4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Grandal should bat 3rd IMO

Completely agree, and batting someone with his profile in the #3 spot makes a lot of sense analytically as well. The Yankees have a similar offensive profile as a team and I found this article explaining how they've made decisions on who to bat 3rd fascinating.

https://theathletic.com/2450186/2021/03/15/the-yankees-hitting-aaron-hicks-third-is-baseball-by-the-book/

Quote

 

“With our lineup being obviously right-handed — especially at the top — I feel like it’s a good place for Hicks as a lefty switch hitter, but as a lefty to break up those guys,” manager Aaron Boone said Sunday. “In the three-hole, you’re talking about a spot in the order that’s going to come up with a runner on first probably more than anyone, so it’s it’s really a spot in the order that you want a guy that doesn’t put the ball on the ground a lot or and or doesn’t hit a hit into a double play.”

In 2006, authors Tom Tango, Mitchel Lichtman and Andrew Dolphin analyzed batting order optimization at length in their seminal work, “The Book: Playing the Percentages in Baseball.”

In a chapter called “Batting (Dis)order,” the three statisticians wrote: “Your three best hitters should bat somewhere in the No. 1, No. 2, and No. 4 slots. Your fourth- and fifth-best hitters should occupy the No. 3 and  No. 5 slots.”

In their research, Tango, Lichtman and Dolphin found that the three-hole hitter faces far and away the most double-play situations within the batting order. Really, the difference is extreme.

Tango, Lichtman, and Dolphin also found that the three-hole hitter is the player in the lineup most likely to come to the plate with two outs. He is the least likely to come to the plate with no outs, making one of the most important jobs of the three-hole hitter the preservation of outs.

 

Grandal checks all of the boxes I'd be looking for to bat 3rd in this lineup. Balance out the righties, high OBP, low GB rate, and then there's a good chance he's just the best hitter on the team after Robert anyways. I also believe putting a guy with his patient approach behind TA & Robert is a good way to prevent ~5 pitch innings when those guys make early in the count outs like they're prone to do sometimes.

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caulfield12 Grand Master

caulfield12

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38 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

 

As we hypothesized why the Meadows trade was never going to materialize...Kiermaier would have been the salary they were looking to exchange.

So we can certainly compare Pollock, Suzuki, Conforto, Pederson, Avi, Rosario, Soler, Meadows, etc., and see who was right and who was (preliminarily) wrong just six months from now.

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chw42 Grand Master

chw42

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54 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

 

I got to thinking more about this and it's starting to not make sense to me.

Unless the Sox really liked Pollock a lot, trading for Meadows would have saved the Sox more money even if they kicked in half of Kimbrel's contract to TB. 

The Pollock trade got us back $1 million in salary relief. 

If the Sox swapped Meadows and Kimbrel straight up, the Sox would save $12 million (Meadows makes $4 million this year)

Even if the Sox gave Tampa $8 million, they'd still save $4 million. 

Meadows is only arb 1 this year, meaning he still has 2 more arb years left and will probably end up getting $7-8 million in 2023 and maybe around $10 million in 2024. 

So the question is, did the Sox want Pollock at 1 year and $15 million (or 2 years at $20 million) over Meadows at possibly 3 years and $22 million (or 2 years and $12 million) plus $8 million to Tampa Bay?

Cause at the end of 2 years, the money ends up being about equal for these 2 and you're way more likely to retain Meadows than Pollock. 

I know Meadows' defense has not been good in RF, but the guy is only 27. There's a lot more upside to him than Pollock. He's also a lot more likely to stay healthy. 

We don't know if any of this is true and we don't know how much TB asked for, but I can't imagine it's more than $8 million. If that's the case, then I'm kind of scratching my head about why they didn't trade for Meadows. 

 

 

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chw42 Grand Master

chw42

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Just now, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

Obviously this guy is full of crap, but for discussion sake, who do the Padres have that the Sox would want?

 

Paddack? I don't see the Padres as a team that would trade their SP depth away after what happened to them last season. 

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ChiSoxFanMike Grand Master

ChiSoxFanMike

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1 minute ago, chw42 said:

Paddack? I don't see the Padres as a team that would trade their SP depth away after what happened to them last season. 

That’s the only guy I could think of as well but I’m not really sure if he’s even that much of an upgrade. Maybe Dinelson Lamet? 

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