Offseason Part 3 - Because Part 2 Was a Dud

[Polar Bear]

18 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I disagree. 4 years at $18 million per or so is definitely reasonable. Lets see what he gets and I'll admit I'm wrong if it's higher. 

4 years at $15M is digestible, anything more is way too much imo.  

[Tnetennba]

 

[Jack Parkman]

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Agree 100%.  Try something different, we watched the Indians for years make the most out of nothing.  Brewers.  Rays.  Heck, even the Royals and Twins.  It's not like we don't have plenty of templates for alternative approaches.

I still don't understand why we have completely given up on the Pacific Rim in terms of scouting.

Asian players tend to want to play on the West Coast or on teams with large fanbases, like the Cubs, Yankees/Mets or Sawx. 

Big named guys rarely sign anywhere else, unless the market just isn't there. The one exception seems to be the Rangers. Darvish and Arihara both signed there, which was interesting. 

Edited March 20, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[caulfield12]

5 minutes ago, quickman said:

I think the Sox would

agree to opt outs. If they believe in colas and their payroll is expected to be higher to keep their own they would love opt outs. Sounds good to me opt out all you want.  

Isn't the the perfect situation for the White Sox...as long as their evaluations on Colas and Cespedes are right on?

This feels like the not dealing with 12-14 year olds in Latin America...we also don't give up control of players, instead either going with club or at worst mutual options.  Living in perpetual fear of having our own Heyward deal (Danks was pretty much the one, coloring all the pitching contracts up to Wheeler and Tanaka.)

Edited March 20, 2022 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

18 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Asian players tend to want to play on the West Coast or on teams with large fanbases, like the Cubs, Yankees/Mets or Sawx. 

Big named guys rarely sign anywhere else, unless the market just isn't there. The one exception seems to be the Rangers. Darvish and Arihara both signed there, which was interesting. 

Those are all rational enough excuses.

Sure, it takes a ton of effort and investment of time and resources.

Rome wasn't built in a day.

Look at how we went from Minoso, Contreras and El Duque to where we are now with Cuban players.

I hoped the same would happen w/ Venezuelan players (Aparicio/Carrasquel), but that country went sideways in terms of MLB academies and Ozzie Guillen only leveraged a family member in Garcia.  Even that played no small part in our title run.

Edited March 20, 2022 by caulfield12

[CentralChamps21]

I don't think the Sox are cheap for the sake of being cheap, nor do I think they are deliberately trying to finish in 2nd. I do think they have an extreme fear of a winning bid for a premium free agent turning into an albatross, like the guy on the north side who is still owed $44 million and is on his best day a platoon player and more often than not a guy you bring in during a double switch (which is going away).

I think they're being a little bit risk averse though. There are some FA signings that I thought were reasonable and the Sox could have been in the running for without an extreme level of risk: Ray, Schwarber, Marte and Stroman to name a few. I think not giving Rodon the QO was too risk averse, as that's only a one year commitment, and it's only 50/50 that he takes it anyway.

[HoosierSox]

Offer Conforto the Grandal contract with an opt out after year 2. Come on Hahn, get this done.

 

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said:

I don't think the Sox are cheap for the sake of being cheap, nor do I think they are deliberately trying to finish in 2nd. I do think they have an extreme fear of a winning bid for a premium free agent turning into an albatross, like the guy on the north side who is still owed $44 million and is on his best day a platoon player and more often than not a guy you bring in during a double switch (which is going away).

I think they're being a little bit risk averse though. There are some FA signings that I thought were reasonable and the Sox could have been in the running for without an extreme level of risk: Ray, Schwarber, Marte and Stroman to name a few. I think not giving Rodon the QO was too risk averse, as that's only a one year commitment, and it's only 50/50 that he takes it anyway.

Can understand the trepidation about pitching...that's one thing.  But at some point you have to trust your scouting and evaluation players to make the right calls or bring in someone better.  Or simply revamp the entire system.  To this day, KW and Paddy are the only two that have a proven eye for talent on a consistent basis.

Edited March 20, 2022 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

Story 6/$140, same as Baez.

Edited March 20, 2022 by caulfield12

[michelangelosmonkey]

51 minutes ago, Sarava said:

The Sox have won 2 out of 7 playoff games the past 2 seasons ,and have for the most part looked lousy in most of them. How can anyone wrap that as anything but bad?

Right?  And those sham Dodgers..."best team in baseball" for 9 years in a row...HA...average 95 "wins" a season...and then fail every post season except the covid short season.  You win in the post season with a big budget.  period.  And until the White sox and Dodgers figure this out we at Soxtalk are doomed to a lifetime of disappointment.  

[FoxForce2]

3 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said:

I don't think the Sox are cheap for the sake of being cheap, nor do I think they are deliberately trying to finish in 2nd. I do think they have an extreme fear of a winning bid for a premium free agent turning into an albatross, like the guy on the north side who is still owed $44 million and is on his best day a platoon player and more often than not a guy you bring in during a double switch (which is going away).

I think they're being a little bit risk averse though. There are some FA signings that I thought were reasonable and the Sox could have been in the running for without an extreme level of risk: Ray, Schwarber, Marte and Stroman to name a few. I think not giving Rodon the QO was too risk averse, as that's only a one year commitment, and it's only 50/50 that he takes it anyway.

Stroman has some kind of beef with TLR and wasn't coming to the Sox. I've wondered throughout the year if a TLR and JR aversion among some players is strong enough to greatly reduce a number of FA's probability of coming to this team.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

And no one said the information is fake, the point is the Sox made an offer early in the off-season, according to our great source, that had zero chance of being accepted and then moved on to other assets. They can claim they gave it the ole college try and the insiders will eat it up, they'll even say it's Conforto's fault for asking for too much money. Conforto will go on to sign for some amount of money the insiders deemed to be too much and the world will go on.

I honestly have no idea what you’re talking about here.  The Sox botched the Machado process and lost out on Wheeler despite being the highest bidder.  No White Sox “insider” claimed either guy was getting paid too much.  In fact, guys like James & raBBit have ripped the Sox endlessly for their failures.  I can’t think of any other free agent in recent years that we seriously pursued that we missed out on.  Your take here is not based in reality.

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

Right?  And those sham Dodgers..."best team in baseball" for 9 years in a row...HA...average 95 "wins" a season...and then fail every post season except the covid short season.  You win in the post season with a big budget.  period.  And until the White sox and Dodgers figure this out we at Soxtalk are doomed to a lifetime of disappointment.  

2005 White Sox, 2014-15 Royals, Brewers, Rays, 2016 Indians all say hello.

[Flash]

Ron Darling calling Mets game on MLBN suggested Comforto could return to the Mets on a 1-year prove-it deal. He also stipulated the risk to Comforto of potentially being platooned w/Canha and making it difficult to maximize the opportunity. 

[Jack Parkman]

Just now, Flash said:

Ron Darling calling Mets game on MLBN suggested Comforto could return to the Mets on a 1-year prove-it deal. He also stipulated the risk to Comforto of potentially being platooned w/Canha and making it difficult to maximize the opportunity. 

Makes sense, obviously. 

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

And to clarify, I simply named James because he leaked the most recent offer yesterday and insinuated it was a competitive offer; I joked at the time that the White Sox off-season cycle is now complete as soon as Conforto goes somewhere else. Given that Conforto turned down 110 million or whatever it was 16 months ago, obviously the White Sox reported opening offer wasn't competitive regardless of how much someone may thought Conforto hurt his value last year.

Dude, he said it was a fair opening offer.  When Boras is probably asking for 6/$150M, you don’t come out with your best possible offer.  This is negotiating 101.

[RibbieRubarb]

When does part 4 begin?

 

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

14 minutes ago, FoxForce2 said:

Stroman has some kind of beef with TLR and wasn't coming to the Sox. I've wondered throughout the year if a TLR and JR aversion among some players is strong enough to greatly reduce a number of FA's probability of coming to this team.

I'm sure it has to some extent, but the same can be said for every team. I'm sure there are just as many players that have cities they refuse to move too, guys that don't want to play out of position, etc.

[Tnetennba]

Just now, RibbieRubarb said:

When does part 4 begin?

 

Will part 4 be any different?  

[Dick Allen]

22 minutes ago, HoosierSox said:

Offer Conforto the Grandal contract with an opt out after year 2. Come on Hahn, get this done.

 

I like this. Or make it the Sox can up the remaining salary a certain amount or he can opt out. That is what they did with Albert Belle. It worked out great for JR.

[FoxForce2]

13 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

I'm sure it has to some extent, but the same can be said for every team. I'm sure there are just as many players that have cities they refuse to move too, guys that don't want to play out of position, etc.

While he didn't take a strong role in this year's negotiations, the enmity between the Players Association and JR is well documented. It's just something that has occurred to me but might not be much of a factor at all.

Edited March 20, 2022 by FoxForce2

[Chicago White Sox]

The real solution here is emulating what the Red Sox just did with Story.  Give Conforto a 4/$80M deal with opt-outs after years 2 & 3.  If the Sox want to lock those final two years in, then they have to exercise an option for year 5 at $20M which the pushes the entire deal to 5/$100M.  Boras can sell it as a possible nine figure deal with opt-outs as a safety net and the Sox get two guaranteed years of control plus the ability to secure more by guaranteeing a 5th year.  Both sides win and us Sox fans can put the pitchforks away for a few months.

[ptatc]

54 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Again, I never said the information wasn't true. Never said you didn't vet information. 

It's literally impossible for you to know the reason for why said contract you posted was leaked to anyone in order for it to make its way to you. I have my opinions as to why these values have been leaked and made their way to journalists with some White Sox affiliation (however direct or indrect), and you have your opinions. Neither of us can speak authoritatively as to the purpose of that contract making it's way to someone like you, but we can both speculate and agree to disagree as to that purpose. Based on the way most off-seasons have gone over the past 4 years, I like to think the outcomes tend to agree with what I believe but most people look for confirmation bias to support their opinions so who knows how right or wrong those thoughts are.

Calling him a mouthpiece for the organization implies he just puts out what the organization tells him to without vetting the information.

[southsider2k5]

24 minutes ago, RibbieRubarb said:

When does part 4 begin?

 

When Ray tells us we are allowed to since apparently Soxtalk has to vet their information through him first.

[Y2Jimmy0]

40 minutes ago, Flash said:

Ron Darling calling Mets game on MLBN suggested Comforto could return to the Mets on a 1-year prove-it deal. He also stipulated the risk to Comforto of potentially being platooned w/Canha and making it difficult to maximize the opportunity. 

 

39 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Makes sense, obviously. 

I’m not buying it. The Mets want the comp pick so that they’ll have a draft pool around $15 million.