Offseason Part 3 - Because Part 2 Was a Dud

[wegner]

3 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said:

Is the vax issue an issue with the Sox culturally? I’m not trying to turn this into a conversation about politics and science, I’m just curious if the Sox flat don’t want conforto specifically for that reason but will never actually say it publicly and ostensibly pretend to chase him like they did with Machado 

I don't think Graveman has been vaxed and the Sox signed him quickly.

[Chicago White Sox]

So after reading through a Rangers message a bit, it really doesn’t seem like they are going to be a big player for Conforto.  Most fans would rather wait until next offseason before adding anymore payroll of significance since they’re unlikely to compete this year.  And several beat writers believe they are more or less done for the offseason, with Jamey Newberg of The Athletic specifically pointing out that the QO would be a deterrent to signing Conforto and fans also mentioning it would prevent them from being able to go over slot in the 1st round of next year’s draft given the picks they’ve already lost.  Point is, there are some valid reasons why it doesn’t make sense for the Rangers to sign Conforto.

I really think this comes down to the Sox and Padres.  Will San Diego fuck us over for a third time?  It’s possible, but hopefully Hahn can stop fucking around and land the left handed bat we desperately need.

[ron883]

3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

So after reading through a Rangers message a bit, it really doesn’t seem like they are going to be a big player for Conforto.  Most fans would rather wait until next offseason before adding anymore payroll of significance since they’re unlikely to compete this year.  And several beat writers believe they are more or less done for the offseason, with Jamey Newberg of The Athletic specifically pointing out that the QO would be a deterrent to signing Conforto and fans also mentioning it would prevent them from being able to go over slot in the 1st round of next year’s draft given the picks they’ve already lost.  Point is, there are some valid reasons why it doesn’t make sense for the Rangers to sign Conforto.

I really think this comes down to the Sox and Padres.  Will San Diego fuck us over for a third time?  It’s possible, but hopefully Hahn can stop fucking around and land the left handed bat we desperately need.

It really feels like the Machado situation where Hahn has his offer in, and somebody will eventually just come in and beat it.  

[Chicago White Sox]

1 minute ago, ron883 said:

It really feels like the Machado situation where Hahn has his offer in, and somebody will eventually just come in and beat it.  

Probably that dick Preller too.

[fathom]

Mets were interested in Kenley and also supposedly still want a late inning reliever. Wonder if we see a three team trade with Kimbrel going to the Mets, JD Davis to a team like Tampa and Meadows to the Sox

[Jack Parkman]

Herb FTW. 

Edited March 21, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Probably that dick Preller too.

That's A.J. to you pal !

[KBX]

I wonder if Kimbrel for Bauer was discussed before Bauer's leave was extended to April 16. 

Discuss.

[chw42]

Just now, KBX said:

I wonder if Kimbrel for Bauer was discussed before Bauer's leave was extended to April 16. 

Discuss.

No shot. There's no way we're willing to give a guy like Bauer all that money but not willing to sign Conforto.

[KBX]

I think Conforto goes to SF. They need him worse than we do. 

[Chicago White Sox]

2 minutes ago, KBX said:

I think Conforto goes to SF. They need him worse than we do. 

I really don’t see how they need him more than us

[caulfield12]

3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I really don’t see how they need him more than us

Nevertheless, the front office is committed to adding another right-handed-hitting outfielder to the mix.

Kris Bryant, Seiya Suzuki, and Nicholas Catsellanos all fit that description. The Giants have been connected to Suzuki early and often this offseason.

As currently constructed, the Giants have two right-handed-hitting outfielders in Darin Ruf and Austin Slater with three lefties including Mike Yastrzemski, LaMonte Wade Jr., and Steven Duggar. Giants manager Gabe Kapler has been aggressive in playing the platoon matchups, and that will likely continue, especially in the outfield.

 

https://aroundthefoghorn.com/posts/projecting-the-2022-sf-giants-lineup-01fv7y5dhb6b#slideshow-top-bar-_8lflvtx4z

[Two-Gun Pete]

3 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Our entire roster construction process is backwards.

You logically address RF/2b/starter first, then bullpen, bench maybe backup catcher if one suits your fancy.

I mean, that should be pretty self-evident that its backwards.

We're meant to believe by this FO that some RP who gives you, what, ~60-70 IP > a starter that gives you 140IP? Or, that a RP who gives you ~60-70 IP > an everyday player who gives you ~500-600 PA? Or, that a utility guy who at best gives you ~2-ish fWAR > a starting player who can give you 3 or more fWAR. 

And it isn't just now. They wanted you to believe that at the last TDL. I mean, how long has RF been a vortex of shit, yet they stupidly added a closer? How long did they allow Mendick'd replacement-level game drag the team down last season before they did anything about it?

I've noted this insane addiction to overvaluing RPs for awhile now. This isn't anything new for this FO.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Two-Gun Pete

[Two-Gun Pete]

3 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Yet Hahn has struggled to quickly find someone even to take on his contract, meaning the perception is that he's only worth $10-$13, maybe $14 million on the open market.

The Braves clearly decided one year of Jansen was preferable at the same $16 million rate. 

To be fair to the Braves, they decided that just spending cash is/was better than  to trade away an asset for the right to pay Kimbrel.

So it isn't "just" Kimbrel’s $16MM salary. It's also them losing a piece NOW, that they could otherwise use later.

 

Seems like there's a lesson in that? I'd think so.

[maxjusttyped]

1 hour ago, fathom said:

Mets were interested in Kenley and also supposedly still want a late inning reliever. Wonder if we see a three team trade with Kimbrel going to the Mets, JD Davis to a team like Tampa and Meadows to the Sox

Rays were supposedly interested in Kimbrel at the deadline and they seemed to be credibly linked with Freeman before he went to the Dodgers. I don't think it's impossible that Kimbrel ends up in Tampa either.

[fathom]

4 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

Rays were supposedly interested in Kimbrel at the deadline and they seemed to be credibly linked with Freeman before he went to the Dodgers. I don't think it's impossible that Kimbrel ends up in Tampa either.

The interesting thing to me is I truly believe Sox are more interested in getting another pitching, as opposed to another RF.  Like it or not, Vaughn is going to be every day RF and Sheets the DH (with Engel playing in the field against LHP and someone else at DH)

[caulfield12]

21 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

To be fair to the Braves, they decided that just spending cash is/was better than  to trade away an asset for the right to pay Kimbrel.

So it isn't "just" Kimbrel’s $16MM salary. It's also them losing a piece NOW, that they could otherwise use later.

 

Seems like there's a lesson in that? I'd think so.

I think Hahn pretty much HAS to get a piece back, even if it's a Tier C prospect that we never hear from again...because just sending $3-5 million to get his deal off the books is an unmitigated disaster from the standpoint it froze our spending at the end of Free Agency.

At least, it's currently perceived that way, so any post-deal spin really doesn't matter unless it involves Conforto (or a LEGIT pitcher that's in that $12-15 million range, not another Velasquez) on the 2022 roster.

Edited March 21, 2022 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

23 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

Rays were supposedly interested in Kimbrel at the deadline and they seemed to be credibly linked with Freeman before he went to the Dodgers. I don't think it's impossible that Kimbrel ends up in Tampa either.

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/austin-meadows/15672/stats?position=DH/OF

If you look at Meadows, there's such year to year variation in fWAR...explained by injuries, sure somewhat.

Trading for Kiermaier 2-3 years too late just creates another issue.   (The only way he'd really be needed would be a Robert injury/defensive replacement.)

If they were to start Kiermaier, you can't justify sending Vaughn to the minors for his lack of offense.

LF    Randy Arozarena (R)
SS    Wander Franco (S)
2B    Brandon Lowe (L)
3B    Yandy Díaz (R)
DH   Austin Meadows (L)
RF    Manuel Margot (R)
1B    Ji-Man Choi (L)
C     Mike Zunino (R)
CF    Kevin Kiermaier (L)

 

Which means the closest thing to a match is Brett Phillips as a lefty hitter...because you're not going to get one of their starters for Kimbrel.

But you already have Leury and Harrison on the roster.

Just not seeing it.

There's no way in hell they're trading Francisco Mejia (back-up) for Kimbrel.

 

The best I can come up with is Sheets and Kimbrel (and $3-5 million to lower his cost to TB) for Austin Meadows.  No way I'm giving up Vaughn as part of that deal.  Of course, they'd have to believe in Sheets as a strong-side platoon, like the White Sox (apparently) do.

Edited March 21, 2022 by caulfield12

[hi8is]

3 hours ago, ScooterMcGee said:

Yes actually.

Did we sign Conforto now?

[Polar Bear]

1 hour ago, KBX said:

I think Conforto goes to SF. They need him worse than we do. 

 

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I really don’t see how they need him more than us

 

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

Nevertheless, the front office is committed to adding another right-handed-hitting outfielder to the mix.

Kris Bryant, Seiya Suzuki, and Nicholas Catsellanos all fit that description. The Giants have been connected to Suzuki early and often this offseason.

As currently constructed, the Giants have two right-handed-hitting outfielders in Darin Ruf and Austin Slater with three lefties including Mike Yastrzemski, LaMonte Wade Jr., and Steven Duggar. Giants manager Gabe Kapler has been aggressive in playing the platoon matchups, and that will likely continue, especially in the outfield.

 

https://aroundthefoghorn.com/posts/projecting-the-2022-sf-giants-lineup-01fv7y5dhb6b#slideshow-top-bar-_8lflvtx4z

They are not going to sign Joc and Conforto. Thus they have absolutely no need or desire to sign Conforto. 

[maxjusttyped]

49 minutes ago, fathom said:

The interesting thing to me is I truly believe Sox are more interested in getting another pitching, as opposed to another RF.  Like it or not, Vaughn is going to be every day RF and Sheets the DH (with Engel playing in the field against LHP and someone else at DH)

I agree with you, but I'm still holding out hope for a quality OF addition anyways.

I wish all of the position player injuries from last season were a wake up call to Hahn & KW that expecting all of the core position players to stay healthy for ~150 games isn't a realistic plan. I understand wanting to let Vaughn & Sheets develop at the big league level, that makes perfect sense, but all it takes is *one* injury at `1B/RF/LF/DH and all of a sudden those guys are thrust back into every day roles.

An addition like Conforto or Meadows wouldn't just make the RF position stronger, it also would add more depth to the roster overall and reduce the number of PA's we'd end up seeing this year from replacement level types like Goodwin, Billy Hamilton, Lamb, Yermin, etc

[caulfield12]

46 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

I agree with you, but I'm still holding out hope for a quality OF addition anyways.

I wish all of the position player injuries from last season were a wake up call to Hahn & KW that expecting all of the core position players to stay healthy for ~150 games isn't a realistic plan. I understand wanting to let Vaughn & Sheets develop at the big league level, that makes perfect sense, but all it takes is *one* injury at `1B/RF/LF/DH and all of a sudden those guys are thrust back into every day roles.

An addition like Conforto or Meadows wouldn't just make the RF position stronger, it also would add more depth to the roster overall and reduce the number of PA's we'd end up seeing this year from replacement level types like Goodwin, Billy Hamilton, Lamb, Yermin, etc

Just goes to show you how different the Rays' philosophy is.  Of course, part of it's about playing 81 games per year on turf, plus TOR.

Meadows is a clear 4th best defensive outfielder for them...on the White Sox, #2 with a bullet.

I don't think they can trade him, because you just can't rely on Margot offensively.   He's the DH, but also the next starting outfielder that can handle multiple positions.

Edited March 21, 2022 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, Polar Bear said:

 

 

They are not going to sign Joc and Conforto. Thus they have absolutely no need or desire to sign Conforto. 

This was written up before the Pederson deal, so they essentially have six outfielders and will look to trade at least 1.

[FoxForce2]

Morning coffee and snap decisions.
Kimbrel to Philly for Logan O'Hoppe + a Class A LH.

or Kimbrel to Oakland for Shea Langeliers + something.
Eat some salary either way.
Issue settled. Nothing else to see here. Move along.

[bighurt574]

8 hours ago, Greg Hibbard said:

Is the vax issue an issue with the Sox culturally? I’m not trying to turn this into a conversation about politics and science, I’m just curious if the Sox flat don’t want conforto specifically for that reason but will never actually say it publicly and ostensibly pretend to chase him like they did with Machado 

I sort of doubt that’s a big issue, especially for a 4-5 year deal when hopefully the politics of it will long be forgotten by the end of it anyway (knock on wood, I sure hope we’re not having the same pandemic debates in 4-5 years).