Offseason Part 3 - Because Part 2 Was a Dud

[Tnetennba]

3 minutes ago, hogan873 said:

I think the fact that the Sox haven't (and probably won't) sign Conforto to fill the known gap in RF is more frustrating than the production we'll get out of RF will be.  There's a chance that a combination of Engel, Sheets, Vaughn, and Leury can give us decent production and overall average to slightly below average defense.  If the Sox sign Conforto, we know who will be playing RF almost every day.  If they don't, who the hell knows.  It will be RF by committee, and the results will be spotty.  Add to that, we'll have guys like Vaughn and Sheets who will be playing out of their natural positions, not really helping with their development.

I've pretty much resigned myself to seeing the RF by committee, and we might be okay offensively, especially if some other guys perform well.  It's just frustrating that there's a solution out there, and if he signs somewhere else, I don't see his contract being outrageous enough for us to say, "Good thing we didn't sign him."  Maybe he chooses another team for other reasons like Wheeler did.  Maybe it's his vax status holding things up.  Or maybe the Sox end up looking like the team that had the best opportunity to improve and failed to do so.

I'll agree that the offensive production might be adequate enough, but calling it slightly below average defense is too generous IMO.  I hope its not as abysmal as the Vaughn/Sheets combo was in RF last year, but I'm not overly hopeful that it will be noticeably better this time around.

[GREEDY]

If they don't want to make the long term commitment to Conforto, for whatever reason, and the plan is to roll with what we have until the deadline and look to upgrade or bring in a natural platoon partner.....

Would it really cost them that much to take a stab at a low cost platoon partner via trade now?  You can always double down mid season if it isn't working.  I feel like we've earned these kind of big club moves after being non-competitive for 4 years.  

[hogan873]

2 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

I'll agree that the offensive production might be adequate enough, but calling it slightly below average defense is too generous IMO.  I hope its not as abysmal as the Vaughn/Sheets combo was in RF last year, but I'm not overly hopeful that it will be noticeably better this time around.

I was thinking Engel's defense would counter-balance the defense of the other guys, resulting in an overall meh performance.  If Engel can stay healthy and actually hit RH pitchers a bit, we'd be in better shape.

[Harry Chappas]

I'm not necessarily frustrated with the moves that have been made it is the fact that there are easy holes to fill and they are refusing to fill them.

There is no DH platoon.  Sheets is the DH and Vaughn is the RF.

I fear they are putting a lot of eggs in the Rutherford, Mercedes, Colas and Cespedas basket.

At this point Mercedes is the RH platoon in the DH role. 

Grandal getting time at DH puts Collins/Zavala in the lineup.  Neither can catch or hit.

Any injury to any player on this roster is a killer.

 

[MiddleCoastBias]

38 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

We saw how thin the OF depth was all of last season, and have they done anything to address that?  No one in AAA/AA is any closer and the AAAA guys are all gone.  One major injury and we are right back to scrap heap pick-ups starting large chunks of games for a so called title contender.  

And this how the Billy Hamiltons and Brian Goodwins of the world will have job security. If we do not somehow wise up and sign Conforto, I fully expect that we will see Hamilton or Goodwin back in the fold at some point this year.

And don't get me wrong, I loved them both as good "team" guys, seemed like they really meshed well with the team and had a positive impact (if not necessarily on the field). But they're 4th and 5th OFers at this point, and I never want to be in the position where we need to sign them to start games because of our lack of depth and foresight. 

[HOFHurt35]

1 minute ago, MiddleCoastBias said:

And this how the Billy Hamiltons and Brian Goodwins of the world will have job security. If we do not somehow wise up and sign Conforto, I fully expect that we will see Hamilton or Goodwin back in the fold at some point this year.

And don't get me wrong, I loved them both as good "team" guys, seemed like they really meshed well with the team and had a positive impact (if not necessarily on the field). But they're 4th and 5th OFers at this point, and I never want to be in the position where we need to sign them to start games because of our lack of depth and foresight. 

The only reason those guys were here last year is because Eloy, Robert, Engel all missed significant time with long term injuries. 

The Sox will need to be more than cursed to experience that level of injuries to the OF once again here in 2022.

[Tnetennba]

3 minutes ago, hogan873 said:

I was thinking Engel's defense would counter-balance the defense of the other guys, resulting in an overall meh performance.  If Engel can stay healthy and actually hit RH pitchers a bit, we'd be in better shape.

Engel's D in theory does help balance out the others, but we have no idea how readily available that will be throughout a season any more.  Which is why counting on it also seems like a bad idea.  But bad ideas never stopped this org.

[GreatScott82]

4 minutes ago, GREEDY said:

If they don't want to make the long term commitment to Conforto, for whatever reason, and the plan is to roll with what we have until the deadline and look to upgrade or bring in a natural platoon partner.....

Would it really cost them that much to take a stab at a low cost platoon partner via trade now?  You can always double down mid season if it isn't working.  I feel like we've earned these kind of big club moves after being non-competitive for 4 years.  

Agreed. If you do the math and add up the team payrolls, the Sox were also close to $120 million below league average from 2017-2019 (About $40 million below league average per season). I'm not buying all the hype that the Sox are "Maxed" out on spending money. And that they are in the top 5 in team payrolls right now, so fans should be happy" When you have glaring needs and can easily spend $20-25 million more to address those needs but simply decide not to, fans have every right to be pissed off. This was a very deep free agent market and Hahn and co were not involved at all. Inexcusable. The defense in the corners of the OF will be brutal. The catching defense will be bad and this team STILL needs that starting pitcher. Something Hahn mentioned they were going to address before the lockout. ?

[Y2Jimmy0]

I've seen Texas speculated for Conforto but I've heard similar on their reluctance. They are forfeiting their 2nd and 3rd rounder. In theory, it makes sense to just add the player and forfeit your 4th as well. The issue is that there are 3 stud prep position players in this class and the Rangers may need to go over slot at #3 to land one of them. Conforto is in a tough spot. I don't think anyone is meeting the perceived asking price of 5/100. A short-deal with opt-outs is likely preferred at this point but there's a very limited market for that I'd think. 

. 

[Tnetennba]

5 minutes ago, MiddleCoastBias said:

And this how the Billy Hamiltons and Brian Goodwins of the world will have job security. If we do not somehow wise up and sign Conforto, I fully expect that we will see Hamilton or Goodwin back in the fold at some point this year.

And don't get me wrong, I loved them both as good "team" guys, seemed like they really meshed well with the team and had a positive impact (if not necessarily on the field). But they're 4th and 5th OFers at this point, and I never want to be in the position where we need to sign them to start games because of our lack of depth and foresight. 

It's hard to overcome the level of injury the Sox had last year, and no one can plan to carry that level of depth.  But those guys are 4th & 5th OFs for a reason, and need to stay that way.  Some level of foresight is needed with our OF.

[striker]

NSC is back online

[MiddleCoastBias]

6 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said:

The only reason those guys were here last year is because Eloy, Robert, Engel all missed significant time with long term injuries. 

The Sox will need to be more than cursed to experience that level of injuries to the OF once again here in 2022.

Thank you for making my point. Engel is Mr. Glass, Eloy plays the outfield like a bowling ball, and Robert is going to be fielding two positions between left-center and right-center.

Until they show the ability to stay healthy and stay on the field, we have to be prepared for the probability that we'll be missing one or more for some period of time. 

[maloney.adam]

11 minutes ago, striker said:

NSC is back online

Where? His account is still showing that it doesn’t exist.

https://mobile.twitter.com/notcishek?lang=en

Edited March 21, 2022 by maloney.adam

[Perfect Vision]

FWIW, just got a text that Heyman was on MLBN this morning and on Conforto, is hearing Rangers, Jays, Giants, Mets, and White Sox.

[Quin]

20 minutes ago, Perfect Vision said:

FWIW, just got a text that Heyman was on MLBN this morning and on Conforto, is hearing Rangers, Jays, Giants, Mets, and White Sox.

As previously discussed in the thread, unless Conforto got vaccinated, I'd eliminate the Jays. I'd strike the Mets* from the list unless he's coming at a heavy discount.

Edit: Wrote Jays twice. Meant Mets for second one.

[Y2Jimmy0]

2 minutes ago, Perfect Vision said:

FWIW, just got a text that Heyman was on MLBN this morning and on Conforto, is hearing Rangers, Jays, Giants, Mets, and White Sox.

Jays and Mets very unlikely. The others are possible though. And Heyman will be good on this because it's Boras. 

[KBX]

1 hour ago, Tnetennba said:

We saw how thin the OF depth was all of last season, and have they done anything to address that?  No one in AAA/AA is any closer and the AAAA guys are all gone.  One major injury and we are right back to scrap heap pick-ups starting large chunks of games for a so called title contender.  

On paper they haven't done anything, but it's not like there's no hope. We have a lot of that. But seriously, Vaughn has to be more of a major league hitter this year, and Engel is a fine depth guy if he can stop getting hurt. If multiple OFers get hurt at once for the second year in a row, I mean there's no accounting for that for most teams. That can't happen. I think by this point 88 and 74 have been made aware of that and will try to be smart. 

[TheCommish]

I don't get the love affair of Conforto on a long term deal. He was HORRIBLE last year and also injured. We are complaining about the injuries with Eloy and Engel, yet want to spend 20+M on the same type of player... why? Because he hits left handed? He's not a good fit for this team on a 100M contract. He has not proven he is worth that. Can he be, sure, but I'd rather not bet on it. We have the offense to cover for RF during the first half of the season. Likely Sheets and/or Vaughn are going to show exactly where they fit in the first 2 months. If they can't play a serviceable RF (which is likely) then they get to platoon at DH and play 1B when Abrue needs a day off and we go get a player at the deadline to fill RF, there will be plenty available. 

 

But why give up a 2nd round draft pick, which is what helps you sustain long playoff runs, for an unknown player that may be worse than what we already have. It's not worth it. If he wants to come on a 1 year deal at 25M, which would mean we keep our draft pick (if i'm right about the QO rules) then I'd be okay with that. But not a long term deal that gives away our 2nd round pick. No Thanks! 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

15 minutes ago, Perfect Vision said:

FWIW, just got a text that Heyman was on MLBN this morning and on Conforto, is hearing Rangers, Jays, Giants, Mets, and White Sox.

Mets don't make sense (no room and NY COVID policy)

TOR doesn't make sense (COVID policy + can't play in NY)

Giants just signed Joc, which would make no sense.

 

Down to CHW and TEX

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

12 hours ago, wegner said:

Thanks....just hanging in there til I can get my almost daily baseball fix.  My weekend days are full with dealing with a new garage with attic space.  I can't wait to sit back and watch some Sox baseball with a cold one.

Is that Crede you took to the dog park or a new pup?

I couldn't handle two dogs; just Crede. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

26 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

I'm not necessarily frustrated with the moves that have been made it is the fact that there are easy holes to fill and they are refusing to fill them.

There is no DH platoon.  Sheets is the DH and Vaughn is the RF.

I fear they are putting a lot of eggs in the Rutherford, Mercedes, Colas and Cespedas basket.

At this point Mercedes is the RH platoon in the DH role. 

Grandal getting time at DH puts Collins/Zavala in the lineup.  Neither can catch or hit.

Any injury to any player on this roster is a killer.

 

There is a DH platoon and it will be determined on who we face. RHP will be Sheets,Grandal,Vaughn, Eloy ,Abreu etc based on who needs rest and who is performing. The Sox still don't have enough quality LH hitters to actually take much time away from Sheets at DH. His performance will dictate how much he actuallyplay there.

Same thing with facing lefties Vaughn with Engel in RF, Grandal, Abreu, Eloy. Leury will always be in the mix sporadically at DH and RF no matter who pitches.

There are no eggs in the basket among those 4 for this year. Mercedes isn't even a considering for much of anything except to be released.

Grandal @ DH you are right though a good defensive catcher seems like more of a priority than their hitting. I don't know much about Carlos Perez so he might fill that need internally.

[Polar Bear]

2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

You’re not getting a Top 50-60 prospect in baseball even if you ate all Kimbrel’s salary.  Why would OAK possibly need him?

100% true.  Yet 80% of this board thinks we are getting Belly or Haniger, pure insanity reigning supreme on soxtalk ?

[HOFHurt35]

Question for the Conforto camp 

Pick one: 

a) Sign Conforto to a 4-5 deal right now 

or 

b) The Sox sign either Lucas Giollito or Tim Anderson to long term deal before the start of this season

You can only pick one for this scenario. 

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

5 minutes ago, Polar Bear said:

100% true.  Yet 80% of this board thinks we are getting Belly or Haniger, pure insanity reigning supreme on soxtalk ?

I think you may be underestimating the savvy of the board. Sure Bellinger and a few others have been discussed because every time a new name pops up we discuss the merits of it.

Pretty sure it's the exact opposite and 80% of the board is just hoping to be rid of Kimbrel as fast as possible and expects mostly nothing. If Hahn can actually get something would be a big shock to most of us.

Edited March 21, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Polar Bear]

25 minutes ago, Quin said:

As previously discussed in the thread, unless Conforto got vaccinated, I'd eliminate the Jays. I'd strike the Mets* from the list unless he's coming at a heavy discount.

Edit: Wrote Jays twice. Meant Mets for second one.

He can't play in NY unless he gets vaccinated as well.