Gas. High Gas (prices).

[greg775]

my bad; wrong thread

Edited June 9, 2022 by greg775
wrong thread

[Iwritecode]

15 hours ago, Big Hurtin said:

 

I was thinking more of things like these:

https://www.rd.com/list/funny-warning-labels/

 

You know these labels only exist because someone, somewhere tried it at least once.

Edited June 10, 2022 by Iwritecode

[The Beast]

19 hours ago, Texsox said:

And those people putting on those stickers vote. 

They do, somewhat blindly. They look at something that has gotten more expensive since Biden took office and don’t give a damn about the underlying reasons which is stupid. I also am not sure that people know what the GOP will do to tackle inflation since they may not have much of a plan, only the pull to weaken the Democrats in congress.

19 hours ago, greg775 said:

The bottom line is this guy is the president at a time gas prices are highest in history. He said the buck would stop with him. All I hear are excuses. People aren't dumb and are going to vote so many leftists out of office it'll make your head spin. This is the USA and people aren't dumb. Whether they want the gas hikes to force everybody to get electric cars sooner than planned or the leaders simply don't care we're hurting at the pump ... or that we believe it's Putin's fault lol, one thing is certain: this president is in office now and doesn't seem to give a bleep about the little guy/gal and lots of them elected him. Their revenge is coming in November.

p.s. if the guy acted like he cared an iota about how we are hurting at the pump and in line at the automatic check out in the grocery store I might be able to support the guy. All he does is huff and puff and yell about Trump and rightists. Again ... people aren't dumb and Joe's gonna find that out in November, Tex. Do u agree??

Lol Greg… Just because someone is to the left of center doesn’t mean they are leftists. There is such a thing as a moderate Democrat and a Problem Solvers caucus.

You mention he doesn’t give a crap about the little guy and gal. What do you call the stimulus checks, the vaccines for the insured and uninsured, the unemployment checks and the child tax credit? If you follow what is going on with congress, you would know that he is unable to get the extension of the child tax credit, the prescription drug negotiations and parts of his economic agenda that Sinema and Manchin support through congress. Provisions that help the climate, reduce the deficit and are economically beneficial can’t get passed without those two senators.

As for the huffing and puffing, the only evidence of that is when he told Doucey he was a jackass for his question on inflation and when he talked about the MAGA support which is not his base. We can debate whether or not he should be doing it but the fact is that he needs more support to get things passed. Let’s get those facts straight for the sake of discussion.

Edited June 10, 2022 by The Beast

[greg775]

13 hours ago, The Beast said:

They do, somewhat blindly. They look at something that has gotten more expensive since Biden took office and don’t give a damn about the underlying reasons which is stupid. I also am not sure that people know what the GOP will do to tackle inflation since they may not have much of a plan, only the pull to weaken the Democrats in congress.

Lol Greg… Just because someone is to the left of center doesn’t mean they are leftists. There is such a thing as a moderate Democrat and a Problem Solvers caucus.

 You mention he doesn’t give a crap about the little guy and gal. What do you call the stimulus checks, the vaccines for the insured and uninsured, the unemployment checks and the child tax credit? If you follow what is going on with congress, you would know that he is unable to get the extension of the child tax credit, the prescription drug negotiations and parts of his economic agenda that Sinema and Manchin support through congress. Provisions that help the climate, reduce the deficit and are economically beneficial can’t get passed without those two senators.

 As for the huffing and puffing, the only evidence of that is when he told Doucey he was a jackass for his question on inflation and when he talked about the MAGA support which is not his base. We can debate whether or not he should be doing it but the fact is that he needs more support to get things passed. Let’s get those facts straight for the sake of discussion.

I can accept your post as good solid discussion. I'll ponder it some more before responding.

[Jerksticks]

If these people say “Putin’s price hikes” one more time, seriously, I’m just gonna root for aliens.   I don’t see anything else that could possibly help ?.   
 

I just can’t believe Biden can look in the camera at the American public and say “Putin’s price hikes” with a straight face.  All of them.  They’re all saying it.  Please, make it stop.  Aliens, you’re seriously our last hope. 

Edited June 13, 2022 by Jerksticks

[The Beast]

1 hour ago, Jerksticks said:

If these people say “Putin’s price hikes” one more time, seriously, I’m just gonna root for aliens.   I don’t see anything else that could possibly help ?.   
 

I just can’t believe Biden can look in the camera at the American public and say “Putin’s price hikes” with a straight face.  All of them.  They’re all saying it.  Please, make it stop.  Aliens, you’re seriously our last hope. 

Would you prefer he list all of the reasons for the increases?

[Jerksticks]

1 hour ago, The Beast said:

Would you prefer he list all of the reasons for the increases?

I can’t really think of a single reason outside of QE.

[StrangeSox]

On 6/7/2022 at 9:12 PM, Texsox said:

@The Beast I agree. Gas seems to be the one thing that folks believe the president can control the price of. I've never heard anyone say that about the price of gold, olive oil, etc. I'm in Texas, I see all the pump jacks and off shore rigs but I've never seen a gas station selling cheaper US gas over imports. I've seen oil and gas companies in boom or bust cycles. Now that the cost of oil is high US production takes off. At $80 a barrel it's better left in the ground. 

 

[Texsox]

7 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

[southsider2k5]

19 hours ago, Jerksticks said:

If these people say “Putin’s price hikes” one more time, seriously, I’m just gonna root for aliens.   I don’t see anything else that could possibly help ?.   
 

I just can’t believe Biden can look in the camera at the American public and say “Putin’s price hikes” with a straight face.  All of them.  They’re all saying it.  Please, make it stop.  Aliens, you’re seriously our last hope. 

It's all about supply.  Gasoline is one of the least elastic commodities out there.  It takes a very small change in supply to have large ripples in the end market place.  Two things are absolutely killing supply right now. 

#1 is the supply we lost during COVID.  Because the US commodities markets were never properly prepared for the inevitable lockdowns, the oil companies kept pumping supply completely unaware of what was coming.  With an intelligent use of the War Powers Act to control the supplies, they could have slowed drilling to levels which would have prevented the massive supply glut which cause the negative oil prices in 2020.  While some gleefully point to those prices as a good thing to be celebrated, what they did do was to bankrupt a very large portion of the oil patch in the United States.  Supply STILL hasn't fully recovered from these bankruptcies as many banks refuse to lend capital to uncap those wells as they don't want to be hung out to dry again for bad loans in future bankruptcies. Go look at rig counts and supplies.  They bottom out in May 2020, and have slowly and continually recovered since, but are still not near capacity they saw pre-COVID.

#2, like it or not, the Russian embargos are a real problem.  Once you get out of the OPEC and US cartels, Russia is one of the worlds largest supplies of oil and gas.  When you start taking their supply out of the equation, you again hit a real wall of the supply chain.  You may not like Biden, but he is right that Russia's actions have had a dramatic impact on gas prices world wide.  This isn't just a US phenomenon.  Look at prices all over the world and they are all at record highs.

Throw in the bonus of COVID wiping out a significant swatch of workers, as well as all of the other supply chain problems around the world which have ripple effects into oil and gas exploration and drilling, these aren't things that are going away.  Also add in the extra cost of summer blend gas we are seeing, and you have a perfect storm of record pricing.

[Texsox]

Excellent analysis. 

One question wasn't Russia added to OPEC a few years ago? 

[Marqhead]

15 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

It's all about supply.  Gasoline is one of the least elastic commodities out there.  It takes a very small change in supply to have large ripples in the end market place.  Two things are absolutely killing supply right now. 

#1 is the supply we lost during COVID.  Because the US commodities markets were never properly prepared for the inevitable lockdowns, the oil companies kept pumping supply completely unaware of what was coming.  With an intelligent use of the War Powers Act to control the supplies, they could have slowed drilling to levels which would have prevented the massive supply glut which cause the negative oil prices in 2020.  While some gleefully point to those prices as a good thing to be celebrated, what they did do was to bankrupt a very large portion of the oil patch in the United States.  Supply STILL hasn't fully recovered from these bankruptcies as many banks refuse to lend capital to uncap those wells as they don't want to be hung out to dry again for bad loans in future bankruptcies. Go look at rig counts and supplies.  They bottom out in May 2020, and have slowly and continually recovered since, but are still not near capacity they saw pre-COVID.

#2, like it or not, the Russian embargos are a real problem.  Once you get out of the OPEC and US cartels, Russia is one of the worlds largest supplies of oil and gas.  When you start taking their supply out of the equation, you again hit a real wall of the supply chain.  You may not like Biden, but he is right that Russia's actions have had a dramatic impact on gas prices world wide.  This isn't just a US phenomenon.  Look at prices all over the world and they are all at record highs.

Throw in the bonus of COVID wiping out a significant swatch of workers, as well as all of the other supply chain problems around the world which have ripple effects into oil and gas exploration and drilling, these aren't things that are going away.  Also add in the extra cost of summer blend gas we are seeing, and you have a perfect storm of record pricing.

But dude, like, Biden.

[StrangeSox]

I'm glad my commute these days is a 2 mile drive to the train station on the occasional day I have to go into the office, though. 

[he gone.]

also rig counts don't fix themselves over night. you have an industry that is bastardized and used for stump speeches by politicians  and then when supply/demand plays out like this and prices rise, you have those same politicians saying they should pay a windfall tax.  I spent time TX and my job was guarantee the plugging of wells on land &  in the sea. I've met with a ton of these companies CEO's and when it's good, its great, and when its bad, its Chapter 11. CAPEX is needed, and there hasn't been really a warm welcome or incentive from the government to put capital in. They're in a predicament because any CAPEX put in now? What if Putin/russia resolves itself ... now you have spent CAPEX, oil is down and you're headed towards BK. 

 

This stems from both sides. Obviously the right side is warmer to oil. But none of this wouldve been very different with Trump in charge. You'd still see these prices. 

[he gone.]

On 6/12/2022 at 9:11 PM, Jerksticks said:

If these people say “Putin’s price hikes” one more time, seriously, I’m just gonna root for aliens.   I don’t see anything else that could possibly help ?.   
 

I just can’t believe Biden can look in the camera at the American public and say “Putin’s price hikes” with a straight face.  All of them.  They’re all saying it.  Please, make it stop.  Aliens, you’re seriously our last hope. 

You have to look behind the incentives. Inflation is the biggest hurdle for Biden and democrats. It would be no different if Pence or Trump or whatever republican was in office, they'd deflect too because they'd be on the frontlines of inflation and take the blame. If you deflect and blame, then maybe some people believe you. If you say it over and over it gets engrained like a TV ad. It's not about the truth, it's about re-election. Telling the truth doesn't help them 

[greg775]

On 6/14/2022 at 8:17 AM, Marqhead said:

But dude, like, Biden.

He said the buck would stop with him and he'd never make excuses (when he was running). I know. I know. They all lie.

[greg775]

Just wondering your folks' emotions when you go to the pump. Not trying to say my reaction is mature, but I'll be honest and you all please tell me what you do while filling up. ...

-- I actually say these words out loud unless somebody is close to my pump as I don't want to offend and/or get punched by somebody who might have no problem with the prices.

I always shake my head while looking at the price monitor run amok and say, "Thanks Joe." I also look around and assess the possibility of a carjacker being near my car. So far I've mainly filled up in Lawrence and though we do have crime from the gangs in Topeka coming in, so far I haven't seen potential trouble from hooligans at the pumps.

Edited June 21, 2022 by greg775

[greg775]

On 6/14/2022 at 10:13 AM, he gone. said:

This stems from both sides. Obviously the right side is warmer to oil. But none of this wouldve been very different with Trump in charge. You'd still see these prices. 

You can't say this with 100 percent certainty. ... For one, how do you know Putin would have chosen this time to invade Ukraine with a more trigger-happy dangerous USA leader in Trump. Say what you want, it's possible he doesn't attack at this time in history if Trump was still in charge. ... And Trump would never have reduced drilling in the USA. He may be the devil to many, but there's no way he's pulling back on oil production in the USA. Discuss all you want if Joe's vision on energy is better, but no way in hell is Trump pushing ANY green agenda if it means this kind of pain at the pump. No way. This is kind of humorous how different the Repubs are from the Demos in this area. If somehow the Repubs win it back in 2024, there will be an immediate complete reversal regarding oil production in the USA, pipelines flowing, etc. So many things going on now (border included) would/will be reversed in 24 if Repubs somehow won. Crazy thought.

Caveat: These are my opinions. I'm not trying to suggest I'm right even though I believe I am right.

 

Edited June 21, 2022 by greg775

[Middle Buffalo]

2 hours ago, greg775 said:

These are my opinions. I'm not trying to suggest I'm right even though I believe I am right.

 

Don’t worry. We know.

[Jerksticks]

On 6/14/2022 at 10:17 AM, he gone. said:

You have to look behind the incentives. Inflation is the biggest hurdle for Biden and democrats. It would be no different if Pence or Trump or whatever republican was in office, they'd deflect too because they'd be on the frontlines of inflation and take the blame. If you deflect and blame, then maybe some people believe you. If you say it over and over it gets engrained like a TV ad. It's not about the truth, it's about re-election. Telling the truth doesn't help them 

Correct.  I’m not saying it would be any different with the other side in charge.  It wouldn’t be at all.  Macro doesn’t care. 
 

I just can’t believe these monsters can get away with lying and blaming inflation on something like Putin.  That’s my point.  Like there’s no accountability for lying.  People actually believe this crap and it’s so fucking sad and there’s nothing we can do.  
 

Like I said, I’m open to other options but I really think aliens is the only thing left ?

[Texsox]

22 hours ago, greg775 said:

You can't say this with 100 percent certainty. ... For one, how do you know Putin would have chosen this time to invade Ukraine with a more trigger-happy dangerous USA leader in Trump. Say what you want, it's possible he doesn't attack at this time in history if Trump was still in charge. ... And Trump would never have reduced drilling in the USA. He may be the devil to many, but there's no way he's pulling back on oil production in the USA. Discuss all you want if Joe's vision on energy is better, but no way in hell is Trump pushing ANY green agenda if it means this kind of pain at the pump. No way. This is kind of humorous how different the Repubs are from the Demos in this area. If somehow the Repubs win it back in 2024, there will be an immediate complete reversal regarding oil production in the USA, pipelines flowing, etc. So many things going on now (border included) would/will be reversed in 24 if Repubs somehow won. Crazy thought.

Caveat: These are my opinions. I'm not trying to suggest I'm right even though I believe I am right.

 

In your lifetime have you ever paid a different price for American gas? Why would an American business charge less than the market price? Oil is a finite resource. The only time it makes economic sense to pump US oil is when prices are high.

 

[greg775]

11 hours ago, Jerksticks said:

Like I said, I’m open to other options but I really think aliens is the only thing left ?

That would be neat if aliens were nice, caring beings with no delusions of grandeur/violence, and finally came down with solutions on how we can all get along. It's possible. I mean if you use the idea of probability (the things the government has said; very intelligent people thinking the govtment is hiding info on aliens from us) I would say a reasonable take is we are not alone. How could we be alone in the vast universe? If the aliens are friendly that would be awesome if they come on down. We need the help internally (no need to explain) and externally (dealing with Putin n China too).

Edited June 23, 2022 by greg775

[greg775]

5 hours ago, Texsox said:

In your lifetime have you ever paid a different price for American gas? Why would an American business charge less than the market price? Oil is a finite resource. The only time it makes economic sense to pump US oil is when prices are high.

 

Gas has been expensive before but never an outrageous price like what's going on now. They are talking about 7 dollar a gallon coming soon. WTF? I know the days of the lines around the block were worse but that's about it. Joe is at war with the gas companies and at war against all fossil fuels. The Repubs love the gas companies and fossil fuels. So it will be very 'funny' to see this all change, total reversal, in 24 if Trump wins again. Or DeSantis. There's no way the Repubs will go green and get rid of gas-driven cars for all electric cars, etc. Two parties with entirely diff. philosophies and agendas. 

Joe has made it clear he's at war with those who produce fuel in the USA. Trump/DeSantis will be lovey dovey with the gas companies. Crazy times indeed. ... I do know I hate paying big bucks for fuel.

[Texsox]

8 hours ago, greg775 said:

Gas has been expensive before but never an outrageous price like what's going on now. They are talking about 7 dollar a gallon coming soon. WTF? I know the days of the lines around the block were worse but that's about it. Joe is at war with the gas companies and at war against all fossil fuels. The Repubs love the gas companies and fossil fuels. So it will be very 'funny' to see this all change, total reversal, in 24 if Trump wins again. Or DeSantis. There's no way the Repubs will go green and get rid of gas-driven cars for all electric cars, etc. Two parties with entirely diff. philosophies and agendas. 

Joe has made it clear he's at war with those who produce fuel in the USA. Trump/DeSantis will be lovey dovey with the gas companies. Crazy times indeed. ... I do know I hate paying big bucks for fuel.

So you've never paid a different price for US gas. It's like many things produced overseas cheaper. If we could just make TVs here we could bring the price down. If we could just make clothes here, we could lower the cost. We produce and import food cheaper than most domestic production. American oil doesn't lower the price at the pump. When gas prices are high enough American oil becomes cost effective to use. 

[greg775]

6 hours ago, Texsox said:

So you've never paid a different price for US gas. It's like many things produced overseas cheaper. If we could just make TVs here we could bring the price down. If we could just make clothes here, we could lower the cost. We produce and import food cheaper than most domestic production. American oil doesn't lower the price at the pump. When gas prices are high enough American oil becomes cost effective to use. 

Tex do you think Biden and his desire to please AOC and the 24/7 green people has had anything at all to do with gas prices spiking? I contend if Trump was still president there simply wouldn't be this issue. ... And I'm no expert so I don't know what to believe, but the electric car fanatics don't seem to care about the negatives: The emissions involved in producing the battery and the electricity used to keep it running are not things the greens should be embracing.

From fee.org: "For a Tesla battery of 75 kWh, this means an additional CO2 emission of 10 875 kg to 14 625 kg of CO2.

Converted to pounds, these numbers are between 23 thousand and 32 thousand pounds of carbon emissions. For each battery!

Even after the initial production of the battery, many electric cars are charged by power plants that produce electricity by burning coal or gas. According to the US Energy Information Administration, 63 percent of total electricity generation in the United States is created using fossil fuels. If the electricity being used to power the electric cars is being produced using fossil fuels, then using electric cars is simply shifting CO2 emissions from the tailpipe of the car to the electricity power plant."

 

Edited June 23, 2022 by greg775