Score the Offseason!

[Chicago White Sox]

Alright guys, we are officially nine days from Opening Day.  While there is still technically time to make more moves, it’s a very real possibility that the roster we have in place now is the one we’re going to rock to start.  As such, how would you score the moves below?

Free Agents:

• RHP Kendell Graveman - 3/$24M
• RHP Joe Kelly - 2/$17M
• UT Leury Garcia - 3/$16.5M
• UT Josh Harrison - 1/$5.5M
• RHP Vince Velasquez - 1/$3M
• C Nick Ciuffo - Minor League Deal
• RHP Kyle Crick - Minor League Deal

Trades:

• RHP McKinley Moore to Phillies for OF Adam Haseley

Options:

• Picked up RHP Craig Kimbrel’s option for $16M

Qualifying Offers:

• Declined to offer QO to LHP Carlos Rodon

Waivers:

• Claimed LHP Yoan Aybar from the Yankees

[Two-Gun Pete]

At the TDL, I had the needs, in order, as:

1. FIRST, SOLVE RF, then

2. Find a cromulent 2B, then

3. Find vs RHP solution(s) for the lineup, then

4. Find a backup catcher who can add value defensively and in game calling, then finally 

5. Add affordable depth to the 'pen.

 

Since then, they’ve solved #5 with a very expensive carton of bullets, but allowed the needs to become:

1. SOLVE RF, then

2. Add rotation depth, then

3. Find a cromulent 2B, then

4. Find a defensive C to backup our achy/aging one, then

5. (Before the post-season), find solution(s) for tough RHP.

 

The roster has gotten older, more expensive, and worse. Theyve solved (IMO) the least of their issues from the TDL, but one that pretty much any other FO could solve more cheaply, and/or through TDL rentals.

This is still a good team. But the FO fucked up the pursuit of "great" this offseason, IMO. I'll support my lifetime favorite team, but as a fan, I reserve the right to doubt what the FO have done this offseason. 

[Harry Chappas]

Picking up the option on Kimbrel then letting Rodon walk for nothing outweighs everything.

That is a firable mismanagement of assets and at a minimum pure baseball stupidity. 

[hogan873]

I like the Graveman and Kelly additions.  I'm okay with Harrison (I think he'll be more valuable than people think).  I don't get the Kimbrel pick-up, especially now that it looks like he will not be traded.  And not offering Rodon the QO is a major head-scratcher.  The rest of the above referenced moves...meh.

As of right now, the off season is a D.

[wegner]

I'll give it a W.....that's for Withdrawal not Win.

[Balta1701]

Ill go with a D. I’ve seen worse concepts (specifically 2015/2016). Piling up expensive relievers  and plugging other holes however they can doesn’t seem like a strategy anyone else would do, but there’s a nonzero chance it’s a complete success.

[Tnetennba]

F-

[Tnetennba]

Did not address RF, again - F. 
Did not replace Rodon - F. 
Did not add a LH power bat - F. 
Did not upgrade 2B - F.
Did not bolster depth anywhere - F. 
Craig Kimbrel - F. 
Did little to nothing to fix this clubs shortcomings to fare better against other playoff teams - F. 

Hell of an off-season White Sox org!

[Chicago White Sox]

So a few weeks backs I said I’d give the offseason a C-.  But upon further review, I’d have to score this a clear D.  I just can’t get over the fact we picked up Kimbrel’s option (and appear to be keeping him at the moment) and then signed two high paid setup man.  The bullpen was a legit area of need, but it’s apparent Hahn went overboard there and left other key areas unaddressed despite having a fairly large budget to work with.

Also, below is a comparison of projected 2022 fWAR by group and a comparison vs. 2021 actual results.  While the positional group is expected to be better, it’s almost entirely driven by full seasons and/or improvement from Grandal, Robert, Eloy, Vaughn & Sheets.  Adding a quality 2B alone would have pushed up the projected net gain even further and increased my offseason rating by a full grade.  At this point I’d be ecstatic with us acquiring a solid backup catcher that can provide above replacement level production.

On the pitching side, forecasts have us much weaker than last year.  I personally think these pitching projections are way too conservative and that the gap will end up being much closer, but losing Rodon’s 4.9 win season really hurts.  Adding someone like Sean Manaea would go a long way to strengthening the pitching staff and would push my offseason score up a full grade assuming it’s done at a reasonable price.

• Group | 2022 | 2021 | B/(W)
• Positional: 27.1 | 25.2 | +1.9
• Starters: 14.7 | 19.3 | -4.6
• Relievers: 5.3 | 7.8 | -2.5
• Total: 47.1 | 52.3 | -5.2

[ChiSox59]

I voted D. Only thing avoiding the F is the lack of a horrible trade moving a young fixture of this core (such as AV or crochet) in a trade for a short term fix or selling low on someone like Eloy. 

[Tnetennba]

5 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I voted D. Only thing avoiding the F is the lack of a horrible trade moving a young fixture of this core (such as AV or crochet) in a trade for a short term fix or selling low on someone like Eloy. 

I think it’s a solid F even w/o that.  I mean we should thank our lucky stars that hasn’t happened yet, but it’s already an F w/o it. 

[bmags]

So, I've tried to be realistic with the constraints and place of the team and stuff blah blah.

Immediately following the loss I actually felt good about running it back in general. That last game featured Sheets hitting a home run for our lone run, and the night before there was a beautiful double from Vaughn. Tepera was nails in the playoff.

But running it back meant re-signing 'Los. And so they are just worse than last year. I do absolutely love Joe Kelly.

The handling of the Rodon QO is terrible. I am not swayed at all by the health stuff. The worst case scenario is just a 1-year deal. The best case scenario is it's a 1-year deal where he again throws like an ace. The next best case scenario is he declines, signs elsewhere, and your extremely barren farm system that cannot produce enough bullpen arms and utility players gets another $1 million in budget for the next draft. Inexcusably bad.

Kimbrel, just incredibly dumb. He seems miserable, I'm miserable because he seems like a whiney baby and hate watching him pitch, but I actually do think picking up his option could have worked out fine. I didn't even value the money, I actually thought, and still believe, that paying off $4-5 million of his contract (putting him at $12 mill) would bring back more value to the org than merely getting $15mill cash. But the worst thing instead happened in that they misread his value, and now are paying $32 million for two relievers (but $18 million for a starter? Oh my heavens but he could get hurt!!!)

Then second base. Ooh how this hurt, especially being a leading proponent of trading madrigal because you can get by finding second baseman cheaply found its major flaw in that argument: That assumes you have a competent front office. The cheap second baseman were there, even if you didn't want  $10 million tied up in escobar, Adam Frazier and Joey Wendle provided high contact 2b that hit well against RHP. Not incredible guys, but Madrigal wasn't incredible. He was a nice complement though in approaches, which these guys also found. Instead they now have 2 powerless RHH second baseman who aren't very good against RHP. And they are paying $10mill for the privelege.

I don't even give an F for conforto. The rest of the F goes to how they are handling their scouting. This is the 500th time posting this, but the white sox are at a disadvantage in that they are the stupidest FA team among the non-competitive balance teams, but do NOT get extra picks and INTL budget. And our current Scouting Director and Marco Paddy have been running a strategy going after small volume of what they deem higher impact talents. The result is bringing in smaller classes. 

And it's such a wonder why they are 30th already? The depth is once again the issue. They cannot operate this way for the "sustained success". They aren't idiots, but they are worse than 28 other organizations at this. 

And yet the team looks pretty great still. Hell, the rockies made a world series in 2008 or something. It happens.

Forgot to mention I gave an F grade. 

[Chicago White Sox]

What’s crazy to me is we’re essentially paying Joe Kelly $8.5M to pitch ~60 low to medium leverage innings (assuming Kimbrel isn’t moved) while we’re paying Harrison $5.5M to provide 400+ plate appearances and be our starting 2B.  Imagine leveraging those Kelly dollars for a more impactful 2B like Escobar and a legit backup C.

[wegner]

I really think it mostly came down to what they did with Kimbrel in the offseason.  I did not like the trade when it happened, but I understand the process over performance argument...Kimbrel was a valued commodity at the trade deadline even if I did not like him or what we gave up.  But when Hahn picked up the option after KImbrel's disasterous turn here last year and then failed to trade him for whatever reason...now Kimbrel and his performance on the south side is all on Hahn.  Risking him to turn it around when clearly they are using him in the same role as last year is just baffling to me.  Not to mention that the Kimbrel $$ could have been used elsewhere.  I know I have posted this same type of thing multiple times, but this really is one of the oddest baseball decisions I have ever seen the White Sox do.  

[SoxBlanco]

I did a quick Google search to see what some non-biased writers felt about our offseason:

ESPN:  C-

CBS:  B

Sporting News:  B

I'm curious how the Athletic graded us, but I don't have a subscription.  Either way, seems like people here are MUCH harsher than others. Not really a surprise, as that's how the internet/message boards work when it comes to sports.

[Chicago White Sox]

5 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

I did a quick Google search to see what some non-biased writers felt about our offseason:

ESPN:  C-

CBS:  B

Sporting News:  B

I'm curious how the Athletic graded us, but I don't have a subscription.  Either way, seems like people here are MUCH harsher than others. Not really a surprise, as that's how the internet/message boards work when it comes to sports.

Or we’re a lot closer to the needs of the team than whoever completed those grades.

Let me ask you this, what score would you give our offseason?

[poppysox]

I graded a C but would consider it C- and incomplete if that choice was offered.  I favored the Vaughn/Sheets/Engel right field because we have them and wanted the money spent at 2nd base, SP, RP, and backup defensive catcher.  Solid RP acquisitions are all that have been accomplished.  No SP yet... an uninteresting 2nd base filler peace...and maybe a defensive catcher with promise in Ciuffo.  I am still holding out hope that we move Kimbrel for something useful to get more accomplished in the next week.

[SoxBlanco]

18 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Or we’re a lot closer to the needs of the team than whoever completed those grades.

Let me ask you this, what score would you give our offseason?

I'd probably go with a C or C-.  With a grading scale, you have to think of all ends of the spectrum. For the people who gave an F, what would the grade be if we had the exact same offseason without signing Graveman or Kelly?  That would be an F for me.  But I think we did a lot for our bullpen. Yes, bullpens are very volatile from year to year, but as of now, it seems like we have one of the best bullpens in baseball.

Now, only adding the bullpen pieces would result in a D for me.  But we signed Leury and Harrison.  Yes, they were underwhelming free agents, but they do provide versatility, and we are better off with both of them than we would be with neither of them.  That's what pushes it from a D to something in the C range (possibly C- because they are redundant players, but like I said, adding neither of them would cause me to stay in the D range).

If we add a starting pitcher like Manaea, I'd push us up into the B range. And if we add Manaea and Conforto, I'd give us an A.

[Two-Gun Pete]

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

I voted D. Only thing avoiding the F is the lack of a horrible trade moving a young fixture of this core (such as AV or crochet) in a trade for a short term fix or selling low on someone like Eloy. 

 

1 hour ago, Tnetennba said:

I think it’s a solid F even w/o that.  I mean we should thank our lucky stars that hasn’t happened yet, but it’s already an F w/o it. 

Yeah, in thinking on this, an F in school is what, a 60% or something?

So yeah, maybe this offseason would be a ~55% on a test, but if they stupidly sold low on a core piece, the % score would go down to ~20% or something like that?

 

Either way, if you get a 60% or a 20% on a test, you're failing, probably because you either didn't study, or are just outright stupid. With this FO, it could be both.

[Two-Gun Pete]

55 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

I did a quick Google search to see what some non-biased writers felt about our offseason:

ESPN:  C-

CBS:  B

 Sporting News:  B

I'm curious how the Athletic graded us, but I don't have a subscription.  Either way, seems like people here are MUCH harsher than others. Not really a surprise, as that's how the internet/message boards work when it comes to sports.

Those are either "out-of-town stupid," or more likely, mere click-bait.

[Snopek]

39 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

I did a quick Google search to see what some non-biased writers felt about our offseason:

ESPN:  C-

CBS:  B

Sporting News:  B

I'm curious how the Athletic graded us, but I don't have a subscription. 

 

On 3/29/2022 at 7:56 AM, southsider2k5 said:

From The Athletic's off season review.

 

https://theathletic.com/3200369/2022/03/28/mlb-offseason-grades-for-all-30-teams-jim-bowdens-guide-to-a-wild-winter-and-whats-next/?source=dailyemail&campaign=601983

Chicago White Sox

Grade: B-

Free agents: RHP Kendall Graveman, 3 years/$24 million; RHP Joe Kelly, 2 years/$17 million; INF/OF Leury García, 3 years/$16.5 million; INF Josh Harrison, 1 year/$5.5 million; RHP Vince Velasquez, 1 year/$3 million

The biggest needs of the White Sox this offseason were second base, right field and bullpen depth. They didn’t land Javier Báez or Marcus Semien in free agency to play second base, but they did retain Leury García and sign free agent Josh Harrison, a versatile pair who can share the position and play at an adequate level. The White Sox did not land an upgrade for right field either, but with Adam Engel, Andrew Vaughn and Gavin Sheets, they should be fine. And in the bullpen, they’ll be more than fine, as they now boast the best bullpen in the AL (and second best to only the Braves in MLB, in my opinion). Kendall Graveman is an excellent fit, and his sinker from the right side is the different look this bullpen needed. They also added the power arm of Joe Kelly, who, excluding his first appearance in May after recovering from shoulder surgery, last year pitched 43 innings (47 outings) with 50 strikeouts, a 2.08 ERA and a .149 batting average against. Unlike last offseason, the White Sox didn’t make a huge trade or free-agent signing, but they didn’t have to as I have them winning the division by at least 10 games anyway.

 

 

42 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

Either way, seems like people here are MUCH harsher than others. Not really a surprise, as that's how the internet/message boards work when it comes to sports.

Yeah, I think there's something to being more critical of the teams you follow/love. I also think that ties into the difference in opinion between fans and national writes. Many of us here watch most, if not all of the Sox games, so we are all too familiar with the roster and its strengths and flaws. Then you have someone like Jim Bowden's write up from the Athletic, as quoted above, and there's not a single mention of starting pitching. Nothing about losing Rodon, nothing about hoping Kopech can provide a significant increase in innings from his 69.1 IP from last year, nothing about the lack of depth. It's just a really high-level, borderline lazy view of the offseason IMO.

[ptatc]

I voted C.

They focused on pitching like they should have. However, I'm not sure they acquired the correct ones.

Edited March 30, 2022 by ptatc

[ChiSox59]

6 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Or we’re a lot closer to the needs of the team than whoever completed those grades.

Let me ask you this, what score would you give our offseason?

I think most outsiders see a team that has the highest payroll in team history and in the top 25% of the league. They also see a  roster that heading into the offseason was easily top 5 in the game.  They see a team with the best pen in the game, and a top 5 rotation and lineup.  They see an opening in RF, but a former top prospect in the game that the Sox have penciled in, as well as a couple other interesting guys in Sheets and Engel to fill the gap, with another former top prospect just added to the mix. They see a 2B opening that needed to be filled with a vet, and it was.  

We all just had higher hopes.  And rightfully so.  But I am not surprised outside publications aren't as harsh on the Sox offseason as we all are. The Sox are still really, really good and are a better team than last year IF the key players stay healthy.  

[Two-Gun Pete]

1 minute ago, Snopek said:

Yeah, I think there's something to being more critical of the teams you follow/love. I also think that ties into the difference in opinion between fans and national writes. Many of us here watch most, if not all of the Sox games, so we are all too familiar with the roster and its strengths and flaws. Then you have someone like Jim Bowden's write up from the Athletic, as quoted above, and there's not a single mention of starting pitching. Nothing about losing Rodon, nothing about hoping Kopech can provide a significant increase in innings from his 69.1 IP from last year, nothing about the lack of depth. It's just a really high-level, borderline lazy view of the offseason IMO.

I think that we've all lived through moronic offseasons with this same FO over the years. Because of this, we've become accustomed to stupid decisions being made over and over and over again. One wonders what its like to be a fan of a team with competent FO leadership, like Tampa, or LAD, or Oakland? Now, I get that Tampa and Oakland fans can [to borrow a phrase] "whine" about their FOs not spending.

But, imagine for a minute what the Tampa FO would do with the SOX FO's resources and payroll, in the ALC? They'd RULE over the ALC like tyrants, and be in the race pretty much every single year, IMO. I think there's enough money here to win, but not enough brains to use it properly. We'll all still be fans and cheer for a very good White Sox team, but IMO, it could be far better with more intelligent leadership.

 

Now, insofar as Bowden's write-up goes, he's bad at writing, and he's out-of-town stupid. Ignoring the Rodon giveaway is just imbecilic on his part. 

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

I think most outsiders see a team that has the highest payroll in team history and in the top 25% of the league. They also see a  roster that heading into the offseason was easily top 5 in the game.  They see a team with the best pen in the game, and a top 5 rotation and lineup.  They see an opening in RF, but a former top prospect in the game that the Sox have penciled in, as well as a couple other interesting guys in Sheets and Engel to fill the gap, with another former top prospect just added to the mix. They see a 2B opening that needed to be filled with a vet, and it was.  

We all just had higher hopes.  And rightfully so.  But I am not surprised outside publications aren't as harsh on the Sox offseason as we all are. The Sox are still really, really good and are a better team than last year IF the key players stay healthy.  

But we’re talking about the quality of the offseason, not the quality of the team itself.  No one is disputing the latter.  The problem is when your GM spends $46M on free agents / Craig Kimbrel and barely moves the needle in terms of improvement.  If outside “experts” want to ignore that point, then their grades are fairly meaningless IMO.