Lance Lynn has slight tendon tear, 4 weeks no throwing off mound

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

11 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It would be very difficult to give the Sox any credit because they traded him ,which if he becomes an All Star it will mean they traded away an All-Star giving up a cost controlled player for a $16M relief pitcher they then had to trade for a 34 yr old OF for a year or 2.

Plus on top of that they kept Kimbrel but no QO to Rodon nor did they pursue Rodon as a FA . They bloated the payroll, had no depth at Starting pitching, had to pay for another old guy to cover 2nd base.

Plus they had to replace Madrigal (who was injured) so they traded Hernandez for Pilkington who has made Cleveland's roster to start the season. That's just a really nasty chain of events all linked to the TDL trades, all linked to a higher payroll , older players and no starting pitching depth. Not exactly championship quality moves.

But caulfield is giving the cubs credit for Cease. Can’t have it both ways. Q also bombed with the Cubs (compared to expectations and what they gave up) and bloated the payroll during his time there.

So if we’re giving the Cubs credit for Cease’s success it’s only fair to give the Sox credit for Madrigal’s success.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

13 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Other than the Astros, who they also had a surprising "earlier than expected breakthrough season"...the Cubs and Royals both peaked in Years 1-3 of their contention windows.  KC actually had just two, but 98% of Sox fans would trade two World Series in 2022-23 for five to seven consecutive divisions without advancing.

If there's such a thing as due...this should be the year if they want to keep the train on the tracks.

Why does every rebuild have to follow the same path? The Braves didn’t win a title until year 4 of their contention window and they only won a title because they signed/traded for a bunch of old dudes (Soler, Arnaud,  Duvall, Rosario, Pederson, Morton, Chavez, Smith), the very thing you’re criticizing the Sox for doing.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Just now, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

But caulfield is giving the cubs credit for Cease. Can’t have it both ways. Q also bombed with the Cubs (compared to expectations and what they gave up) and bloated the payroll during his time there.

So if we’re giving the Cubs credit for Cease’s success it’s only fair to give the Sox credit for Madrigal’s success.

I don't care who gives credit for whom. If you trade them away it really doesn't matter. I was never once arguing about credit.

What matters is a championship and the moves that led to it. Between the TDL last year and all the moves since then trying to make up for those disastrous moves isn't exactly pushing the needle in the Sox direction for a championship. Throw in the draft picks and lack of spending big money which were key components of the Astros and Cubs Championship, I'm not willing to give the FO credit for anything. How you and Caulfield divvy  who gets credit for developing playing is not germane to winning a World Series.

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Why does every rebuild have to follow the same path? The Braves didn’t win a title until year 4 of their contention window and they only won a title because they signed/traded for a bunch of old dudes (Soler, Arnaud,  Duvall, Rosario, Pederson, Morton, Chavez, Smith), the very thing you’re criticizing the Sox for doing.

LOL.

What gives anyone a reason to believe Rick Hahn will execute the right moves for veterans like that when he hasn't succeeded with eight (from your Braves 2021 list) total in over a decade?

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Just now, caulfield12 said:

LOL.

What gives anyone a reason to believe Rick Hahn will execute the right moves for veterans like that when he hasn't succeeded with eight (from your Braves 2021 list) total in over a decade?

I know everything the Sox do is bad in your eyes but I thought Lynn and Hendriks were pretty great last season. I’m not a big fan of Grandal but most would consider him a big success as well. Or do those three not count as veteran acquisitions?

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

4 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I don't care who gives credit for whom. If you trade them away it really doesn't matter. I was never once arguing about credit.

What matters is a championship and the moves that led to it. Between the TDL last year and all the moves since then trying to make up for those disastrous moves isn't exactly pushing the needle in the Sox direction for a championship. Throw in the draft picks and lack of spending big money which were key components of the Astros and Cubs Championship, I'm not willing to give the FO credit for anything. How you and Caulfield divvy  who gets credit for developing playing is not germane to winning a World Series.

And despite all of that, the Sox have been in the postseason the last two years (first time in franchise history) and have the 7th best World Series odds this season, which is post Lynn injury it was even higher prior to the injury. They’re very much World Series contenders this year and next year at a minimum. They haven’t been perfect by any means but it could be far worse and the contention window is very much still open.

[caulfield12]

7 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

I know everything the Sox do is bad in your eyes but I thought Lynn and Hendriks were pretty great last season. I’m not a big fan of Grandal but most would consider him a big success as well. Or do those three not count as veteran acquisitions?

Except Lynn is now unsurprisingly hurt and Grandal was last year.  Those are fine, albeit quite expensive and not the Braves under the radar moves.  That would be more like a McCann or Narvaez acquisition.

We shall see soon enough with the veteran relievers, Pollock and Harrison...how much they actually have left in the tank.

Finally, David Robertson was fine, but paid like a truly elite closer when he wasn't quite that in reality.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Except Lynn is now unsurprisingly hurt and Grandal was last year.  Those are fine, albeit quite expensive and not the Braves under the radar moves.  That would be more like a McCann or Narvaez acquisition.

We shall see soon enough with the veteran relievers, Pollock and Harrison...how much they actually have left in the tank.

Finally, David Robertson was fine, but paid like a truly elite closer when he wasn't quite that in reality.

LOL.

Yea, I’d say acquiring a guy that finishes third in Cy Young voting in his first season with the team is “fine.” Why no mention of Hendriks? He was AL reliever of the year in his first season with the Sox. I guess that’s only “fine” too.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

17 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

And despite all of that, the Sox have been in the postseason the last two years (first time in franchise history) and have the 7th best World Series odds this season, which is post Lynn injury it was even higher prior to the injury. They’re very much World Series contenders this year and next year at a minimum. They haven’t been perfect by any means but it could be far worse and the contention window is very much still open.

Look I do appreciate your optimism and wish I could share it but since you brought up the Braves here's an article on how drafting and trades led to them being in a position to compete at a high level and that article didn't even include the TDL deals from 2021. It's all about making successful moves in the draft, trades, free agent signings ( some of which would be very costly) and allocating resources properly and continuing moving forward. The Braves, Cubs and Astros did all that.

The Sox just set themselves back a year since the 2021 TDL. The bad system, bad trades, allocating resources properly ,not addressing the SP depth or the right handedness of the position players. Throw Covid, the strike and injuries into the mix and it's been pretty bad. If the Sox don't win a World Series the series of moves starting at the 2021 TDL and this off season that was a result of those moves will be pointed out as the main culprit.

https://www.mlb.com/news/braves-nlcs-run-product-of-successful-rebuild

Edited April 4, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

4 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Look I do appreciate your optimism and wish I could share it but since you brought up the Braves here's an article on how drafting and trades led to them being in a position to compete at a high level and that article didn't even include the TDL deals from 2021. It's all about making successful moves in the draft, trades, free agent signings ( some of which would be very costly) and allocating resources properly and continuing moving forward. The Braves, Cubs and Astros did all that.

The Sox just set themselves back a year since the 2021 TDL. The bad system, bad trades, allocating resources properly ,not addressing the SP depth or the right handedness of the position players. Throw Covid, the strike and injuries into the mix and it's been pretty bad. If the Sox don't win a World Series the series of moves starting at the 2021 TDL and this off season that was a result of those moves will be pointed out as the main culprit.

https://www.mlb.com/news/braves-nlcs-run-product-of-successful-rebuild

You’re focusing solely on the negative like caulfield. I already said they haven’t been perfect, there’s no denying that, but they’ve made plenty of really good moves as well. The trade for Lynn has been great, even if he misses 10 starts this season. The acquisition of Hendriks has been great. The acquisition of Grandal has been good. I think the trade for Pollock will turn out very good. The farm still has enough at the top to swing a big trade deadline deal this year if needed or a few smaller ones. 

Before their very surprising postseason run last year, many Braves fans were having the same doubts you are today. For most of last season, they didn’t even think they’d make the playoffs and were beginning to wonder if their window was already closed. Their rebuild course towards a title was anything but smooth sailing.

[ptatc]

11 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Look I do appreciate your optimism and wish I could share it but since you brought up the Braves here's an article on how drafting and trades led to them being in a position to compete at a high level and that article didn't even include the TDL deals from 2021. It's all about making successful moves in the draft, trades, free agent signings ( some of which would be very costly) and allocating resources properly and continuing moving forward. The Braves, Cubs and Astros did all that.

The Sox just set themselves back a year since the 2021 TDL. The bad system, bad trades, allocating resources properly ,not addressing the SP depth or the right handedness of the position players. Throw Covid, the strike and injuries into the mix and it's been pretty bad. If the Sox don't win a World Series the series of moves starting at the 2021 TDL and this off season that was a result of those moves will be pointed out as the main culprit.

https://www.mlb.com/news/braves-nlcs-run-product-of-successful-rebuild

So the FO gets no credit for acquiring Grandal, Abreu, Moncada, Jimenez,  Robert, Giolito, Cease, Lynn, Hendricks,  Bummer. 

However, they get discredited for acquiring Hernanadez and Kimbrel.

Is that point?

[VAfan]

My only regret among the Sox' moves this offseason was not tendering and then resigning Rodon.  He was our best starter for most of the year, and seemed to wear out from fatigue rather than injury.  With Rodon, there wouldn't have been a need for Velasquez. They could have rolled with 6 starters with Lopez in reserve, and when anyone went down, gone with 5.

Of course that's $19M more than the Sox have spent, putting them up against the tax. But the team would be much stronger with Rodon at the top of the rotation and everyone else sliding back a notch.  

As it is now, the Sox are also a bit thin in the bullpen without Crochet and Kelly still not ready.  The young guys have to do well this year.  Last year, guys like Marshall, Heuer and Foster got shelled.

But we are where we are.  The offense should be vastly improved.  It needs to be. 

[Two-Gun Pete]

25 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

The Sox just set themselves back a year since the 2021 TDL. The bad system, bad trades, allocating resources properly ,not addressing the SP depth or the right handedness of the position players. Throw Covid, the strike and injuries into the mix and it's been pretty bad. If the Sox don't win a World Series the series of moves starting at the 2021 TDL and this off season that was a result of those moves will be pointed out as the main culprit.

https://www.mlb.com/news/braves-nlcs-run-product-of-successful-rebuild

I generally agree with the overall tenor of this post.

However, I think that they've shortened the window, and worsened the overall talent of the roster, moreso than "setting themselves back a year."

 

I think Atlanta are an example of a FO being honest with themselves about what they needed, and then going to attempt to address their actual needs. They weren't shifting defensively, and they corrected it. They needed OFers, and so they got some.

There's a lesson for RH/KW in what Atlanta did, but people who have had their jobs as long as they've had them should have already known this.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

4 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

You’re focusing solely on the negative like caulfield. I already said they haven’t been perfect, there’s no denying that, but they’ve made plenty of really good moves as well. The trade for Lynn has been great, even if he misses 10 starts this season. The acquisition of Hendriks has been great. The acquisition of Grandal has been good. I think the trade for Pollock will turn out very good. The farm still has enough at the top to swing a big trade deadline deal this year if needed or a few smaller ones. 

Before their very surprising postseason run last year, many Braves fans were having the same doubts you are today. For most of last season, they didn’t even think they’d make the playoffs and were beginning to wonder if their window was already closed. Their rebuild course towards a title was anything but smooth sailing.

I'm focusing on the negative because that's all there has been since the 2021 TDL . Yes Grandal and Hendriks have been good . But imagine if the Sox didn't extend Lynn and it becomes another prospect for a 1 year pitcher. The trade for Pollock was just a way to try to eliminate the disaster the Kimbrel trade created but we lost a cost controlled Madrigal and spent money on Harrison and it pushed the payroll higher replacing the Kimbrel $16M salary with Pollock's $12M and they didn't address the SP depth at all thus creating another disaster waiting to happen. Surprise Lynn hurt, Crochet out for the year . There's a whole lot of negative going on.

In 2018 the Braves lost in the playoffs in 4 games in the division series. In 2019 they lost in the division series in 5 games. In 2020 they lost in the Championship series in 7 games. 2021 they won the World Series. That's progress year by year, all set up by a series of moves that allowed them to go a little farther every year.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

17 minutes ago, ptatc said:

So the FO gets no credit for acquiring Grandal, Abreu, Moncada, Jimenez,  Robert, Giolito, Cease, Lynn, Hendricks,  Bummer. 

However, they get discredited for acquiring Hernanadez and Kimbrel.

Is that point?

Come on now, credit is deserved for getting the Sox to the point they have but the question has always been will they be smart enough to finish it off. That remains to be seen but it's not exactly trending in the right direction.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

10 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

I generally agree with the overall tenor of this post.

However, I think that they've shortened the window, and worsened the overall talent of the roster, moreso than "setting themselves back a year."

 

I think Atlanta are an example of a FO being honest with themselves about what they needed, and then going to attempt to address their actual needs. They weren't shifting defensively, and they corrected it. They needed OFers, and so they got some.

There's a lesson for RH/KW in what Atlanta did, but people who have had their jobs as long as they've had them should have already known this.

Atlanta wasn't a better team than the White Sox at any point during the 2021 season.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

9 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

I generally agree with the overall tenor of this post.

However, I think that they've shortened the window, and worsened the overall talent of the roster, moreso than "setting themselves back a year."

 

I think Atlanta are an example of a FO being honest with themselves about what they needed, and then going to attempt to address their actual needs. They weren't shifting defensively, and they corrected it. They needed OFers, and so they got some.

There's a lesson for RH/KW in what Atlanta did, but people who have had their jobs as long as they've had them should have already known this.

I think what you said is setting themselves back a year because I gave examples of how they did what you said.

[ptatc]

16 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Come on now, credit is deserved for getting the Sox to the point they have but the question has always been will they be smart enough to finish it off. That remains to be seen but it's not exactly trending in the right direction.

I don't think the questions was could they finish it off. That has only been the question the last 2 years.

Prior to that 95% of the posters here did not want to allow this FO to attempt the rebuild as they didn't trust them. 

It's the same old complaining no matter what happens. KW won a world series but is was lick and not him he sucks. The FO can't  do a rebuild because their all idiots. The build a good team but can't finish it. 

If they win a world series but only one like the Cubs or Astros it will go back to them being idiots but lucky and they couldn't capitalize on the team.

Now before all the water carrying comments start coming, do I agree with every move. No. But to say they can't acquire players to win isn't correct either.

I think back when this started and I argued to give the FO a shot at the rebuild the timeline I said was contending by year 3 and win in the playoffs by year 4. I think year 4 would be next year if I remember right.

Edited April 4, 2022 by ptatc

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

14 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

I generally agree with the overall tenor of this post.

However, I think that they've shortened the window, and worsened the overall talent of the roster, moreso than "setting themselves back a year."

 

I think Atlanta are an example of a FO being honest with themselves about what they needed, and then going to attempt to address their actual needs. They weren't shifting defensively, and they corrected it. They needed OFers, and so they got some.

There's a lesson for RH/KW in what Atlanta did, but people who have had their jobs as long as they've had them should have already known this.

Trading for Pollock and Haseley this offseason wasn’t the front office admitting they needed OF help?

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

14 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I'm focusing on the negative because that's all there has been since the 2021 TDL . Yes Grandal and Hendriks have been good . But imagine if the Sox didn't extend Lynn and it becomes another prospect for a 1 year pitcher. The trade for Pollock was just a way to try to eliminate the disaster the Kimbrel trade created but we lost a cost controlled Madrigal and spent money on Harrison and it pushed the payroll higher replacing the Kimbrel $16M salary with Pollock's $12M and they didn't address the SP depth at all thus creating another disaster waiting to happen. Surprise Lynn hurt, Crochet out for the year . There's a whole lot of negative going on.

In 2018 the Braves lost in the playoffs in 4 games in the division series. In 2019 they lost in the division series in 5 games. In 2020 they lost in the Championship series in 7 games. 2021 they won the World Series. That's progress year by year, all set up by a series of moves that allowed them to go a little farther every year.

So the Braves lost in the first round of the playoffs during the first two years of their contention window…isn’t that exactly what the White Sox did the last two years? What am I missing?

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

6 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Atlanta wasn't a better team than the White Sox at any point during the 2021 season.

Exactly. Sometimes you need a little luck. By most measures, the 2021 Braves was the worst team they fielded of the four playoff teams they fielded between 2018 and 2021. They got hot at the right time last year. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Atlanta wasn't a better team than the White Sox at any point during the 2021 season.

Highly debatable . Record wise sure but if you plot their progression from what they did from 2018-2020 their record was a result of an injury to one of the best players in baseball and the 2 time Achilles tears to Soroka in 2020 and again in 2021. They rebuilt their whole outfield smartly and it paid off even better than expected.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Also, it’s kind of funny people here say the Astros and Braves FO did things the “right way.” Let’s just pretend the Astros cheating scandal never occurred or the Braves international signing scandal never happened. 

[chitownsportsfan]

every thread is now hopelessly off topic and meta. Just make a bitching and moaning thread.

so on topic, it is my opinion that there are no "slight tears" in tendons as the tendons are slow to heal and perform more stressful roles than ligaments at times: so I'd be skeptical of any timetable here. It sounds like it's 4 weeks and then see where he's at. That could be another two months for all we know.

 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

3 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Highly debatable . Record wise sure but if you plot their progression from what they did from 2018-2020 their record was a result of an injury to one of the best players in baseball and the 2 time Achilles tears to Soroka in 2020 and again in 2021. They rebuilt their whole outfield smartly and it paid off even better than expected.

And the Sox haven’t progress each of the last four seasons (2019 to today)? What are you even arguing?