SP Targets

[he gone.]

3 hours ago, bmags said:

That’s crazy, pitchers develop pitches suddenly all the time

Well, Paddack is going on year 3 of struggling and not adding a pitch all while the Padres continue to move on without him ... maybe he didn't get the memo that he should try to develop a pitch as a pitcher ... or like ... it's not that easy to perfect. 

Paddack is a bullpen arm. He's Lamet. He's Pomeranz. He's Reynaldo Lopez. You can live out of the bullpen off of two pitches, you cannot as a starter. zero interest in paddack.

[GIDP]

9 minutes ago, he gone. said:

Well, Paddack is going on year 3 of struggling and not adding a pitch all while the Padres continue to move on without him ... maybe he didn't get the memo that he should try to develop a pitch as a pitcher ... or like ... it's not that easy to perfect. 

Paddack is a bullpen arm. He's Lamet. He's Pomeranz. He's Reynaldo Lopez. You can live out of the bullpen off of two pitches, you cannot as a starter. zero interest in paddack.

That's exactly right. Throw in the fact that he had a PRP injection for a partially torn UCL last September and you have another reason.

[wrathofhahn]

1 hour ago, striker said:

FA - I'd go Cueto. We just need 5 good innings.

Pirates aren't going to trade Quintana. They just signed him this offseason.

Anyone hear anything about Lambert or Stiever?

What? He signed a 1yr 2m deal. The pirates would move him easily as he is not part of their longterm plans and they don't really plan on contending but how much would you give up? I wouldn't give up anything of value. He's been terrible this spring

Edited April 4, 2022 by wrathofhahn

[bmags]

20 minutes ago, he gone. said:

Well, Paddack is going on year 3 of struggling and not adding a pitch all while the Padres continue to move on without him ... maybe he didn't get the memo that he should try to develop a pitch as a pitcher ... or like ... it's not that easy to perfect. 

Paddack is a bullpen arm. He's Lamet. He's Pomeranz. He's Reynaldo Lopez. You can live out of the bullpen off of two pitches, you cannot as a starter. zero interest in paddack.

The thing is Paddack is 6'5 not a short righty like Lopez where there was good reason to believe he could struggle maintaining throughout a game, which was why he was keyed in on as a bp.

Pomeranz, otoh, is 6'5 with a starter build and pomeranz was 27 when he suddenly was able to take his pitches back to starting and had two low 3 ERA years of 170 IP so that's why you give a guy like him a chance.

Unlike Reynaldo Lopez, his pitches generate great movement and his length should create some added velocity beyond his mid-90s fb. 

It's not a guarantee but it's a good project to try, just like when San Diego years ago took Pomeranz out of the bullpen and made him a starter and flipped him to boston.

Nobody said it's easy, that's why an org like the Padres, which was so high on how it was teaching pitching that it fired it's pitching coach mid season and then the manager, may have struggled to help a player that couldn't find it naturally.

[Eminor3rd]

As far as a non-sexy, could be used as a swingman later in season, couldn’t cost too much in a trade because he’s out of options potential choice:

Nick Martinez took some serious steps forward last year with SoftBank and the Padres snagged him. I wonder if they wouldn’t rather part with him than Paddack or whatever. Wouldn’t be the worst pickup for an April/May flyer with some upside. 

[South Side Fireworks Man]

2 hours ago, Jerksticks said:

Just wait until Lynn is back and make a real trade for a stud.  We don’t need as much glue and bandaids as some think

 

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

We don’t have the ammo to trade for a stud.

Moncada.  

[wrathofhahn]

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

So this is a trade that actually works according to BaseballTradeValues:

• CWS get: RHP Chris Paddack, Ryan Weathers, 1B Eric Hosmer, & $30M cash
• SDP get: Gavin Sheets

This is basically the Mets trade with Sheets instead of Dom Smith and Weathers instead of Pagan.  The Sox would be on the hook for ~$7.5M of Hosmer’s salary each year for the next four seasons.  Our cut of Hosmer’s salary along with Paddack & Weathers’ salaries would roughly be the same amount of money that Manaea will make this year.

Obviously BBTV is not overly accurate, so which side says no to theoretical deal?

 

That NYM - Padres deal was awful for the mets. Zero interest in Hosmer or his contract. If the Mets want to revisit that deal then let him Hosmer has 59M remaining and figures to be well below average as he ages.

Not to mention our team is full of 1B-DH types who will outperform him at a discount. So you can't even make the argument you would be overpaying for a need.

Edited April 4, 2022 by wrathofhahn

[maxjusttyped]

7 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

As far as a non-sexy, could be used as a swingman later in season, couldn’t cost too much in a trade because he’s out of options potential choice:

Nick Martinez took some serious steps forward last year with SoftBank and the Padres snagged him. I wonder if they wouldn’t rather part with him than Paddack or whatever. Wouldn’t be the worst pickup for an April/May flyer with some upside. 

Nick Martinez is an interesting name, but if the Sox had any interest in him at all, I think they would have just signed him as a FA. Outside the box acquisitions like that just don't seem to be something they're interested in, unfortunately. Martinez is a super intriguing name for me, though, I wish they would have pursued him.

[bmags]

18 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

Nick Martinez is an interesting name, but if the Sox had any interest in him at all, I think they would have just signed him as a FA. Outside the box acquisitions like that just don't seem to be something they're interested in, unfortunately. Martinez is a super intriguing name for me, though, I wish they would have pursued him.

I could believe the scenario that they don't really have any Japan/Korea/Taiwan scouting network, but now they could have seen him pitch spring training and are able to have better reports on him.

[maxjusttyped]

1 minute ago, bmags said:

I could believe the scenario that they don't really have any Japan/Korea/Taiwan scouting network, but now they could have seen him pitch spring training and are able to have better reports on him.

The possibility of that being true is so depressing, but you might very well be right.

[bmags]

7 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

The possibility of that being true is so depressing, but you might very well be right.

Not really sure how this team went from Takatsu, Iguchi and making a vocal try toward Tanaka to just completely removing itself from any Asian pipeline but seems like it's a choice by Paddy.

[Flash]

46 minutes ago, South Side Fireworks Man said:

 

Moncada.  

Would be interesting to see how other teams value him. The big spenders who could take on his contract are all either set at 3B and/or looking for pitchers themselves. 

[Flash]

48 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

 

That NYM - Padres deal was awful for the mets. Zero interest in Hosmer or his contract. If the Mets want to revisit that deal then let him Hosmer has 59M remaining and figures to be well below average as he ages.

Not to mention our team is full of 1B-DH types who will outperform him at a discount. So you can't even make the argument you would be overpaying for a need.

The point of the $30M in cash is to offset Hosmers contract. At $7.5/yr he can DH vs RH, similar to Sheets and provide solid defense at 1B if needed. Paddock and Weathers would inject some young arms with upside (especially Weathers). I'd be inclined to do it.

[southsider2k5]

For those who know the Padres better, could there be some kind of a super deal built between Padres SPs and Andrew Vaughn?  If we could get Gore and something else, I would be interested as that gives us the same kind of control back, and superstar upside too.

[ChiSoxFanMike]

10 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

For those who know the Padres better, could there be some kind of a super deal built between Padres SPs and Andrew Vaughn?  If we could get Gore and something else, I would be interested as that gives us the same kind of control back, and superstar upside too.

No.

[Flash]

28 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

For those who know the Padres better, could there be some kind of a super deal built between Padres SPs and Andrew Vaughn?  If we could get Gore and something else, I would be interested as that gives us the same kind of control back, and superstar upside too.

I think some of the luster has worn off w/Gore. The expectations were lofty but he hasn't progressed as many hoped. The thing I've noticed about the Padres is their MILB guys get a lot of hype (similar to Yankees) but never seem to live up to it. Will see what happens with Abrams who is a Top 10 prospect and likely to make the team if not start at SS. Vaughn would be a great fit in SD but I'd want a lot more than Gore.

 

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, wrathofhahn said:

 

That NYM - Padres deal was awful for the mets. Zero interest in Hosmer or his contract. If the Mets want to revisit that deal then let him Hosmer has 59M remaining and figures to be well below average as he ages.

Not to mention our team is full of 1B-DH types who will outperform him at a discount. So you can't even make the argument you would be overpaying for a need.

Just to be clear, the trade would be taking Hosmer at $30M to get two controllable arms with surplus value.  Anything you get out of Hosmer would be a plus.  That’s the concept and by including Sheets the move would be net neutral from a 1B-DH type position.

[caulfield12]

4 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said:

I just don't know where they go from here. Anyone they sign isn't going to help them right away (unless it's someone who was in Spring Training with another team). Maybe see if you can grab Castillo or Mahle from the Reds while taking on dead money (Shogo's $8 mill?)? Try for Montas?

Akiyama will clear waivers...nobody in baseball would take on that $8 million in dead money.  Certainly not JR.

[caulfield12]

3 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

So this is a trade that actually works according to BaseballTradeValues:

• CWS get: RHP Chris Paddack, Ryan Weathers, 1B Eric Hosmer, & $30M cash
• SDP get: Gavin Sheets

This is basically the Mets trade with Sheets instead of Dom Smith and Weathers instead of Pagan.  The Sox would be on the hook for ~$7.5M of Hosmer’s salary each year for the next four seasons.  Our cut of Hosmer’s salary along with Paddack & Weathers’ salaries would roughly be the same amount of money that Manaea will make this year.

Obviously BBTV is not overly accurate, so which side says no to theoretical deal?

The Padres...because of Weathers. But I guess it depends on their valuation of Sheets.  They would definitely ask for Vaughn.

[Chicago White Sox]

Just now, caulfield12 said:

The Padres...because of Weathers. But I guess it depends on their valuation of Sheets.  They would definitely ask for Vaughn.

They may straight up reject the trade, but not wanting to give up Weathers does not mean they can ask for Vaughn.  That’s a ridiculous proposition.

[caulfield12]

17 minutes ago, Flash said:

I think some of the luster has worn off w/Gore. The expectations were lofty but he hasn't progressed as many hoped. The thing I've noticed about the Padres is their MILB guys get a lot of hype (similar to Yankees) but never seem to live up to it. Will see what happens with Abrams who is a Top 10 prospect and likely to make the team if not start at SS. Vaughn would be a great fit in SD but I'd want a lot more than Gore.

 

Quantrill quietly became one of the best rookie pitchers last year.  Naylor was progressing before the injury.  France in Seattle, Urias in Milwaukee.

The best traded are/were Patino and Gabriel Arias, now one of Cleveland's best prospects.

Mejia...will concede, although he was originally an Indians' guy.

They just don't trade their really top top guys.

[caulfield12]

13 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

They may straight up reject the trade, but not wanting to give up Weathers does not mean they can ask for Vaughn.  That’s a ridiculous proposition.

Just as it's ridiculous to evaluate trades with a computer simulator.

The reality is they won't trade away two starting pitchers after what happened last year.

Gore is iffy, Lamet is iffy, Paddack is iffy, Clevinger is iffy.  That's too risky for SD.  When they were giving away just one pitcher, arguably Dom Smith has a much more trustworthy track record than Sheets.

And the Padres have all the leverage. They don't desperately need a pitcher like the Sox do...

 

So you're also going to have to include Adolfo, assuming the Pads have positive evaluations on him.  Still don't see it happening.

Edited April 4, 2022 by caulfield12

[Chicago White Sox]

7 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Just as it's ridiculous to evaluate trades with a computer simulator.

The reality is they won't trade away two starting pitchers after what happened last year.

Gore is iffy, Lamet is iffy, Paddack is iffy, Clevinger is iffy.  That's too risky for SD.  When they were giving away just one pitcher, arguably Dom Smith has a much more trustworthy track record than Sheets.

And the Padres have all the leverage. They don't desperately need a pitcher like the Sox do...

I honestly can’t tell if you’re a Sox fan or a Padres / Hosmer fan.

[caulfield12]

15 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I honestly can’t tell if you’re a Sox fan or a Padres / Hosmer fan.

I could care less about Hosmer.  I just enjoy watching dynamic position players.

With pitching at an extreme premium and so many injuries starting to pop up already...it would just be incredibly risky to give up two guys.

When's the last time a trade like that happened?  If the Padres were legitimately cash strapped...but they were actively going after Suzuki with Hosmer still on the roster.

 

Basically, it's quite interesting to watch teams with such opposite philosophies both in their contention windows...one thing for sure is that Preller will lose his job if they miss the postseason again this year.  And the two respective divisions they compete in couldn't be more diametrically opposed opposites.

And it's normal to be a bit down on the White Sox after this offseason and particularly the last 7-10 days.

Edited April 4, 2022 by caulfield12

[Bob Sacamano]

21 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

I could care less about Hosmer.  I just enjoy watching dynamic position players.

With pitching at an extreme premium and so many injuries starting to pop up already...it would just be incredibly risky to give up two guys.

When's the last time a trade like that happened?  If the Padres were legitimately cash strapped...but they are actively going after Suzuki with Hosmer still on the roster.

 

Basically, it's quite interesting to watch teams with such opposite philosophies both in their contention windows...one thing for sure is that Preller will lose his job if they miss the postseason again this year.  And the two respective divisions they compete in couldn't be more diametrically opposed opposites.

If you really want to discuss the Padres in depth multiple times a day in every thread, you should probably find the Soxtalk equivalent for Padres fans.

Edited April 4, 2022 by Bob Sacamano