Sox Acquire Reese McGuire for Zack Collins, Officially

[Superstar Lamar]

I'm pulling for him.

[bmags]

45 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

I mean fangraphs had him worth 1.4 WAR last year in a limited backup role. I don't really get the move. I understand they needed to make a move eventually since Mareno is almost ready but why make the trade now and why take someone like Collins whose only value is his option.

I don't get it for the jays but I really like the move for the sox. I just wish we went out and made a similar move at 2B rather than paying Josh Harrison 5m

There is no similar “backup defensive specialist” equivalent for 2b, and really Leury would be that anyway.

[southsider2k5]

 

[ptatc]

48 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

Buffalo instead of Charlotte.  He lost in that deal. I like Buffalo but Charlotte better.

[southsider2k5]

4 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Buffalo instead of Charlotte.  He lost in that deal. I like Buffalo but Charlotte better.

He's also a lot more log jammed in front of him to get back to the majors from the sounds of it.

[ChiSox59]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

He's also a lot more log jammed in front of him to get back to the majors from the sounds of it.

Yeah, seems like a tough spot for Zack to get back to the big leagues in 22.  Believe this is his last option year, so he'll latch on somewhere else in 23.  I think the power will eventually show if he's given regular at bats.  But he's simply not a big league catcher. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 4/4/2022 at 9:19 AM, EloyJenkins said:

that video breakdown is great. Collins is an organizational failure and frustrating that they never were able to even get a slight improvement out of him. 

Frankly I thought it sucked. Now don't get me wrong Collins sucked at framing but that video didn't prove anything .

1st of all in order for a catcher to be an effective framer the pitcher has to throw the ball where the catcher is setup and throw it either in the zone or very close to the zone. Once in a while a really good framer will steals some pitches a good 3-5 inches off the plate but they still have to be thrown on the side where the catcher setup.

Of the 12 examples they gave for McGuire the pitcher threw the ball where he was setup 10 times and almost all the pitches were knee to waist high. Most of the time a catcher either sets up on the inside or outside edge. McGuire looked setup down the middle 1 of the times.

Of the 14 examples for Collins only 6 of the pitches were actually thrown where he setup and while the pitches to McGuire were usually knee to waist high not only did the Sox pitchers miss their spots but the majority of the pitches to Collins were also down below the strike zone . So when you add it up the pitches not only missed the spot where Collins setup but also missed down. Only one of the 14 examples was a strike actually called a ball when Collins was setup up and in and the pitch came down and in . There was another example with Crochet pitching where Collins set up outside and the pitch caught the inside edge at 92MPH that was called a ball. But 1st rule of getting framed pitches called strikes is hitting your spot and Crochet missed his spot by a lot.

So basically the video shows McGuire catching pitches where he setup, catching pitches from knee to waist high, on pitches in the zone or barely off the zone. Most catchers given the same set of circumstances are going to get strikes called.

With Collins they showed pitchers not only missing their spots but also missing down where most catchers given the same circumstances  would also get those pitches called balls.

I'm pretty sure I can put together a video of Collins catching strikes that were thrown to where he setup inside the zone and or off the plate by the slimmest of margins being called strikes too.

I 'm also fairly certain that I could show McGuire catching pitches getting called balls by the ump on not only pitches that missed the spot but were also down and out of the zone.

Edited April 5, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Texsox]

5 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

I feel bad for him. 

[SCCWS]

9 hours ago, wrathofhahn said:

I mean fangraphs had him worth 1.4 WAR last year in a limited backup role. I don't really get the move. I understand they needed to make a move eventually since Mareno is almost ready but why make the trade now and why take someone like Collins whose only value is his option.

I don't get it for the jays but I really like the move for the sox. I just wish we went out and made a similar move at 2B rather than paying Josh Harrison 5m

My concern with Collins or now Reese, if Grandal goes down, it could be a big dropoff.  I would rather have seen them get a veteran backup but maybe the market was the problem.  

[ChiSox59]

15 minutes ago, SCCWS said:

My concern with Collins or now Reese, if Grandal goes down, it could be a big dropoff.  I would rather have seen them get a veteran backup but maybe the market was the problem.  

Well when you have arguably the best catcher in the game, there’s gonna be a dropoff. Fangraphs quite literally just yesterday ranked Sox #1 in terms of catcher depth chart after the trade. So yeah..

[Balta1701]

51 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Well when you have arguably the best catcher in the game, there’s gonna be a dropoff. Fangraphs quite literally just yesterday ranked Sox #1 in terms of catcher depth chart after the trade. So yeah..

Come on man, Grandal is not the best catcher in the game, not even arguably. There’s one clearly better.

You can make an argument for second best although I think this season everyone will agree Smith is above him.

Was this just bait?

[ShoeLessRob]

2 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

Well when you have arguably the best catcher in the game, there’s gonna be a dropoff. Fangraphs quite literally just yesterday ranked Sox #1 in terms of catcher depth chart after the trade. So yeah..

Obviously they’ve never seen him play catcher. Offensively sure. 

[FoxForce2]

2 hours ago, SCCWS said:

My concern with Collins or now Reese, if Grandal goes down, it could be a big dropoff.  I would rather have seen them get a veteran backup but maybe the market was the problem.  

I don't think Grandal needs to be catching more than 90 games in a season. DH him the other 50-60 games. The more he catches/crouches the more likely he is to go to the IL and not be available at all. I've argued that the Sox need a #2 catcher moreso than a backup. I don't know whether or not the new guy fits the bill.

Edited April 6, 2022 by FoxForce2

[hi8is]

12 hours ago, Superstar Lamar said:

I'm pulling for him.

No need… he does enough of that on his own.

[wrathofhahn]

30 minutes ago, FoxForce2 said:

I don't think Grandal needs to be catching more than 90 games in a season. DH him the other 50-60 games. The more he catches/crouches the more likely he is to go to the IL and not be available at all. I've argued that the Sox need a #2 catcher moreso than a backup. I don't know whether or not the new guy fits the bill.

Thats crazy to me considering how good our options at DH.

If you want to give him rest just rest him. Vaughn and Co are more than capable of DH'ing

2 hours ago, SCCWS said:

My concern with Collins or now Reese, if Grandal goes down, it could be a big dropoff.  I would rather have seen them get a veteran backup but maybe the market was the problem.  

As long as Mcguire can keep his offense similar to last year we will be fine even if Grandal gets injured for a stretch. I am not really worried about the offense and carrying a light hitting catcher

Edited April 6, 2022 by wrathofhahn

[FoxForce2]

18 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

Thats crazy to me considering how good our options at DH.

If you want to give him rest just rest him. Vaughn and Co are more than capable of DH'ing

As long as Mcguire can keep his offense similar to last year we will be fine even if Grandal gets injured for a stretch. I am not really worried about the offense and carrying a light hitting catcher

Maybe it is crazy, but TLR has made clear that he's going to be using Grandal as a DH quite a lot when he isn't catching. Grandal is a first class batter and, while a great framer, is an average catcher with a poor arm. Catching is tough. The dings, scrapes, crouchings etc take a toll and the Yogi Berra's and Yadi Molina's are few and far between, I'd much rather have Yaz in the lineup than have him 'resting' on the IL.

[wrathofhahn]

14 minutes ago, FoxForce2 said:

Maybe it is crazy, but TLR has made clear that he's going to be using Grandal as a DH quite a lot when he isn't catching. Grandal is a first class batter and, while a great framer, is an average catcher with a poor arm. Catching is tough. The dings, scrapes, crouchings etc take a toll and the Yogi Berra's and Yadi Molina's are few and far between, I'd much rather have Yaz in the lineup than have him 'resting' on the IL.

Well it is. Grandal is a great hitting catcher but as a DH bat our internal options are probably not that much worse. It's a waste for him to be used that way either give him the rest or don't.

[greg775]

I like Collins. Hope he makes it in the bigs.

[ThatBallHitDeep_WAYBack]

7 hours ago, Texsox said:

I feel bad for him. 

Feel bad for what?  Zack Collins spent more time making dancing videos with Danny Mendick than working at his craft.  Being in The Show is earned not given.  It was clear he didn’t give a rip about improving either sides of his game as no adjustments were made.  
 

Good riddance, Mr. Collins. 

[caulfield12]

Definitely have to go Will Smith #1.  The Dodgers should know,  they had both.  Based on last year's full season,  you would get arguments between Grandal and Sal Perez.  Depends if you prefer the walls or homers. 

[Boopa1219]

Another failed first round pick in the rebuild era. 

[ChiSoxFanMike]

2 hours ago, ThatBallHitDeep_WAYBack said:

Feel bad for what?  Zack Collins spent more time making dancing videos with Danny Mendick than working at his craft.  Being in The Show is earned not given.  It was clear he didn’t give a rip about improving either sides of his game as no adjustments were made.  
 

Good riddance, Mr. Collins. 

Not sure how you came to the conclusion that he didn’t care about improving. I don’t think that was the issue, the issue is that he just isn’t that good.

[ThatBallHitDeep_WAYBack]

19 hours ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

Not sure how you came to the conclusion that he didn’t care about improving. I don’t think that was the issue, the issue is that he just isn’t that good.

People who CARE are COACHABLE and MAKE ADJUSTMENTS.  We saw the same 12” approach his whole career and stabbing receiving game behind the plate.  If he cared, he would have listened to those who would have suggested orders of business to improve upon.  Now he is someone else’s problem.

[ChiSoxFanMike]

8 minutes ago, ThatBallHitDeep_WAYBack said:

People who CARE are COACHABLE and MAKE ADJUSTMENTS.  We saw the same 12” approach his whole career and stabbing receiving game behind the plate.  If he cared, he would have listened to those who would have suggested orders of business to improve upon.  Now he is someone else’s problem.

Don’t think being a catcher in the major leagues is as easy as you make it sound.

[asindc]

On 4/5/2022 at 8:32 PM, Balta1701 said:

Come on man, Grandal is not the best catcher in the game, not even arguably. There’s one clearly better.

You can make an argument for second best although I think this season everyone will agree Smith is above him.

Was this just bait?

They are not saying Grandal is the best individual catcher, they are saying that the Sox group of catchers is the best in MLB.