4/4- Sox at Cubs, 3:05, Marquee

[Chicago White Sox]

Just now, Jack Parkman said:

And I defended him. 

This is the thing: he was the centerpiece of the Sale trade and the #1 prospect in baseball at one time. People expected superstar and they got very good.

When Superstar is the expectation, very good is disappointing to some. 

Disappointing <> bad player

[ptatc]

3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

And I defended him. 

This is the thing: he was the centerpiece of the Sale trade and the #1 prospect in baseball at one time. People expected superstar and they got very good.

When Superstar is the expectation, very good is disappointing to some. 

MLB has Moncada ranked as the #10, #1 prospect of all time.

People expectation don't matter. Performance does.

[Jack Parkman]

3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Disappointing <> bad player

That's a matter of opinion, as much as we'd like to disagree. 

[chitownsportsfan]

I hope this team gets hotter than shit just to shove it up the ass of half this forum. 

[Chicago White Sox]

7 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

That's a matter of opinion, as much as we'd like to disagree. 

I don’t know how that’s a matter of opinion.  Moncada is a 4+ win player.  Even if you expected more out of him, he’s still a great player.

[Jack Parkman]

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I don’t know how that’s a matter of opinion.  Moncada is a 4+ win player.  Even if you expected more out of him, he’s still a great player.

Some people think WAR is a useless stat. 

They see .260 with 14 HR. Can't help those people 

 

Edited April 4, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[ChiSox59]

44 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

If Moncada puts up 4-5 fWAR for the next 3 years nobody is complaining. 

You will be. Who you kidding? That’s what he did last year and you complain about how it’s not 2019 Moncada almost daily. 

[Jack Parkman]

5 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

You will be. Who you kidding? That’s what he did last year and you complain about how it’s not 2019 Moncada almost daily. 

I defended him last year. 

I've accepted 2019 Moncada is gone. 

Last season I had some hope that guy was still there. It's disappointing, but 2021 Moncada is still a very good, above average player. 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[ChiSox59]

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

I defended him last year. 

I've accepted 2019 Moncada is gone. 

You just said you won’t complain about Moncada if he puts up 4-5 war seasons. He put up a 4.5 war season in 21, yet you complain about him nearly daily. This does not compute, Jack. 

[Jack Parkman]

6 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

You just said you won’t complain about Moncada if he puts up 4-5 war seasons. He put up a 4.5 war season in 21, yet you complain about him nearly daily. This does not compute, Jack. 

I complain because he looks like someone who would struggle to break the Mendoza line in Charlotte right now. 

I'm concerned. Is that ok? He could still be fine, but his ST is stuff of nightmares. 15K/1BB and 0 XBH. 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[maxjusttyped]

5 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I complain because he looks like someone who would struggle to break the Mendoza line in Charlotte right now. 

I'm concerned. Is that ok? He could still be fine, but his ST is stuff of nightmares. 15K/1BB and 0 XBH. 

I wonder which is more meaningful & predictive: A 3 year stretch where Moncada was the 2nd most valuable 3B in the entire sport. The fact that over his last 1,406 PA's he's been 24% better than the league average hitter, or, a 38 PA stretch during games that don't matter and we'll all have forgotten about 4 days from now.

[Chick Mercedes]

2 hours ago, reiks12 said:

madrigal bomb, love to see it

Other than not being hurt, I don’t think Altuve was any better than Madrigal at the plate when he came into the league. Just saying.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

33 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

You just said you won’t complain about Moncada if he puts up 4-5 war seasons. He put up a 4.5 war season in 21, yet you complain about him nearly daily. This does not compute, Jack. 

Jack always running around telling everyone he's the defender of Moncada; his biggest original fan but.....

no one on this entire forum is more irrationally critical of Moncada than Jack.

[Jack Parkman]

8 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Jack always running around telling everyone he's the defender of Moncada; his biggest original fan but.....

no one on this entire forum is more irrationally critical of Moncada than Jack.

I'm disappointed that the 2019 guy is gone. It sucks. 

Very content with the 2021 guy. 

Concerned about just how bad his spring has been.  

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

12 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I'm disappointed that the 2019 guy is gone. It sucks. 

Very content with the 2021 guy. 

Concerned about just how bad his spring has been.  

Jack, you were one of the most vocally negative guys about him all last year as well. Everyone isn't making it up. I just don't get how you can call yourself a "huge fan" of the guy.

A big fan of a guy is me with Crede; name my dog crede. Research absurd statistical accomplishments regarding things like clutch hitting so that I can brag and make Joe better than his actual production may have ever been. Talk up Crede to this day as an all-time great with his 13 career WAR. Get fat, sit poorly in my work chair in hopes of having a bad back and wish i could be bald so I can be like Joe as an adult.

Edited April 5, 2022 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[wegner]

21 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Jack always running around telling everyone he's the defender of Moncada; his biggest original fan but.....

no one on this entire forum is more irrationally critical of Moncada than Jack.

Moncada has never been the same since he decided to be a "music video" star!!!

[Jack Parkman]

8 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Jack, you were one of the most vocally negative guys about him all last year as well. Everyone isn't making it up. I just don't get how you can call yourself a "huge fan" of the guy.

It was disappointing that he's not the same player. I wouldn't call myself a huge fan of his anymore. I was a huge fan of the tools that he had until he got covid. The 2019 guy was so exciting and he was just scratching the surface. 

4.5 fWAR is 4.5 fWAR. 

He had a very good season. 

Is it ok to be disappointed that the guy I thought was going to win MVPs and put up 30/30 seasons is gone because of an infectious disease that didn't exist 4 years ago? 

At this point, I just want him to keep putting up quiet 4+ fWAR seasons. 

Do any of you baseball types know anything about defensive stats btw? 

I'd like to know why UZR 150 loves Moncada's defense while OAA hates it. 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[ShoeLessRob]

The problem with Moncada is he was traded for an all star top of the rotation arm at the time. Anyone coming back was going to have lofty expectations. I think we were expecting a MVP caliber in return. If he settles into what he did last year for the next 3-5 years he’ll be a super valuable asset to this team, just not quite what we were wishing. Kopech is the wild card. 

[Jack Parkman]

Just now, ShoeLessRob said:

The problem with Moncada is he was traded for an all star top of the rotation arm at the time. Anyone coming back was going to have lofty expectations. I think we were expecting a MVP caliber in return. If he settles into what he did last year for the next 3-5 years he’ll be a super valuable asset to this team, just not quite what we were wishing. Kopech is the wild card. 

Yep. Kopech has been just as injured as Sale has since 2018. 

[chw42]

10 minutes ago, wegner said:

Moncada has never been the same since he decided to be a "music video" star!!!

I guess you can say it's been a Disastre Personal. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

8 minutes ago, ShoeLessRob said:

The problem with Moncada is he was traded for an all star top of the rotation arm at the time. Anyone coming back was going to have lofty expectations. I think we were expecting a MVP caliber in return. If he settles into what he did last year for the next 3-5 years he’ll be a super valuable asset to this team, just not quite what we were wishing. Kopech is the wild card. 

Moncada is signed through 2025. If he doesn't get any better and settles at 4.5 WAR average over 4 years, Moncada would have accumulated:

32.8 WAR in his time with the Sox.

Chris Sale accumulated 27.1 WAR in his tenure with the Sox.

If anyone expected more than 32.8 fWAR at the time of that trade they should have their head examined.

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[maxjusttyped]

This might be a conversation for a different thread, but a lot of the same arguments for why people are "disappointed" with Moncada, despite him still being very good, would also apply to Eloy. Except Yoan has been a *much* more productive player *and* hitter than Eloy over the last 3 seasons. I know we're all frustrated Eloy has had a ton of injury issues, but he's basically received a pass for his performance being below what most of us were expecting.

When Moncada goes through a rough stretch, threads get derailed into what we're seeing now... when Eloy goes through a rough stretch, there isn't 3 pages of discussion filled with people questioning how good Eloy is, what he's likely to produce going forward, etc etc.

[caulfield12]

17 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Jack, you were one of the most vocally negative guys about him all last year as well. Everyone isn't making it up. I just don't get how you can call yourself a "huge fan" of the guy.

A big fan of a guy is me with Crede; name my dog crede. Research absurd statistical accomplishments regarding things like clutch hitting so that I can brag and make Joe better than his actual production may have ever been. Talk up Crede to this day as an all-time great with his 13 career WAR. Get fat, sit poorly in my work chair in hopes of having a bad back and wish i could be bald so I can be like Joe as an adult.

Hunting with Buehrle in Missouri?

[chw42]

55 minutes ago, Chick Mercedes said:

Other than not being hurt, I don’t think Altuve was any better than Madrigal at the plate when he came into the league. Just saying.

Madrigal would need to hit the ball in the air a lot more. Altuve does hit a lot of grounders, but he also has a much higher launch angle than Madrigal. I don't think it's farfetched to think that Nick can develop 10 home run power, but I really don't see him hitting 30 a year like Altuve is capable of. Plus he doesn't play in a park with a 310 foot fence down the left field line. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Just now, caulfield12 said:

Hunting with Buehrle in Missouri?

sign me up caufield. My wife is less than enthused at the bald and fat goal, but we all gotta make sacrifices to achieve our life goals.