TLR 2022 Thread

[Quin]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

I blame the poster who was upset about the Sox being last in strikeouts the first week.

[southsider2k5]

 

[southsider2k5]

 

[southsider2k5]

 

[southsider2k5]

 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

Our team is filled with guys who swing at bad pitches and don't take walks (Anderson, Robert, Abreu, Eloy, Garcia, and on and on)

[ChiSox59]

38 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Our team is filled with guys who swing at bad pitches and don't take walks (Anderson, Robert, Abreu, Eloy, Garcia, and on and on)

And all those guys hit right handed.  It wasn't hard to look at this roster and see its filled with way too many right handed free swingers.  Yet, the Sox decided to go into the season with Gavin fuckin' Sheets as the main solution to mitigate that.  Its so dumb.  

Edited May 2, 2022 by ChiSox59

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

41 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Our team is filled with guys who swing at bad pitches and don't take walks (Anderson, Robert, Abreu, Eloy, Garcia, and on and on)

Except the Sox were third in baseball last year in BB rate and pitches seen I believe.

[ron883]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Except the Sox were third in baseball last year in BB rate and pitches seen I believe.

Yaz carried in that department. I'd imagine we'll see a big dropoff if father time has indeed caught up with him

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

37 minutes ago, ron883 said:

Yaz carried in that department. I'd imagine we'll see a big dropoff if father time has indeed caught up with him

One player isn't going to carry an entire roster in that category - especially given that he lost significant time last year as well.

Yaz accounted for 6.2% of all White Sox PA's in 2021. 

edit; And sorry, Sox were 4th in walk rate. 9th in P/PA. Still, they clearly were one of the more patient teams in the game.

Edited May 2, 2022 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[JoeCredeYes]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

Sox are currently dead last in walks and OBP after finishing 4th and 3rd in those categories last year.  Clearly Menechino felt the Sox were too patient last year and wants them to be more aggressive on pitches in the zone early in the count.  He and anybody involved with this YoY change needs to be fired yesterday. 

[southsider2k5]

Just now, JoeCredeYes said:

Sox are currently dead last in walks and OBP after finishing 4th and 3rd in those categories last year.  Clearly Menechino felt the Sox were too patient last year and wants them to be more aggressive on pitches in the zone early in the count.  He and anybody involved with this YoY change needs to be fired yesterday. 

How is this "clearly" on Menechino?

[Tony]

5 minutes ago, JoeCredeYes said:

Sox are currently dead last in walks and OBP after finishing 4th and 3rd in those categories last year.  Clearly Menechino felt the Sox were too patient last year and wants them to be more aggressive on pitches in the zone early in the count.  He and anybody involved with this YoY change needs to be fired yesterday. 

The article in the Athletic last week with quotes from Menechino completely contradicts this. He basically put it back on the players. He wants them to wait on their pitch, he knows they are getting slider'd to death because too many guys are swinging at balls in the dirt, they aren't seeing a ton of fastballs right now. 

I've never been in the dugout, but I've always looked at a hitting coach to provide a player and team a general philosophical approach on how they want to engage with a specific hitter, as well as what they are trying to do as a team. It's on the players to execute on that plan. Menechino was very open in that story and I suggest you read it. I don't put the blame on him.

[JoeCredeYes]

6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

How is this "clearly" on Menechino?

When hitting approach drastically alters year over year for an entire team, I'll go ahead and blame the guy in charge of hitting approach. 

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Just now, JoeCredeYes said:

When hitting approach drastically alters year over year for an entire team, I'll go ahead and blame the guy in charge of hitting approach. 

 

 

I have yet to see anything that actually shows that.  In fact his statements this year have been quite the opposite.

[JoeCredeYes]

5 minutes ago, Tony said:

The article in the Athletic last week with quotes from Menechino completely contradicts this. He basically put it back on the players. He wants them to wait on their pitch, he knows they are getting slider'd to death because too many guys are swinging at balls in the dirt, they aren't seeing a ton of fastballs right now. 

I've never been in the dugout, but I've always looked at a hitting coach to provide a player and team a general philosophical approach on how they want to engage with a specific hitter, as well as what they are trying to do as a team. It's on the players to execute on that plan. Menechino was very open in that story and I suggest you read it. I don't put the blame on him.

Didn't he say the exact opposite to this last year and up til spring training this year?  I'll have to go find the quotes.  But I specifically remember him getting on Yoan last year for being too patient and wanted him to attack more on borderline pitches. 

[JoeCredeYes]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

I have yet to see anything that actually shows that.  In fact his statements this year have been quite the opposite.

I'll take the stats over whatever the guy trying to save his own ass has to say all day. 

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, JoeCredeYes said:

I'll take the stats over whatever the guy trying to save his own ass has to say all day. 

The players are the ones putting up stats.

[JoeCredeYes]

6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The players are the ones putting up stats.

So when a team goes from 6th most pitches seen per AB to 4th least pitches seen per AB year over year it's entirely on the players?  I don't buy it. 

[Tony]

6 minutes ago, JoeCredeYes said:

So when a team goes from 6th most pitches seen per AB to 4th least pitches seen per AB year over year it's entirely on the players?  I don't buy it. 

So then you're suggesting multiple-time all-stars, a former MVP, silver sluggers, etc.....all have changed their approach for the worse...because the Sox hitting coach, who was also here last year, told them to take this new approach? 

I don't buy that.

[JoeCredeYes]

5 minutes ago, Tony said:

So then you're suggesting multiple-time all-stars, a former MVP, silver sluggers, etc.....all have changed their approach for the worse...because the Sox hitting coach, who was also here last year, told them to take this new approach? 

I don't buy that.

So then you're suggesting multiple-time all-stars, a former MVP, silver sluggers, etc., just all forgot how to hit?

 

I don't buy that. 

Edited May 2, 2022 by JoeCredeYes
typo

[Tony]

Just now, JoeCredeYes said:

So then you're suggesting multiple-time all-starts, a former MVP, silver sluggers, etc, just all forgot how to hit?

 

I don't buy that. 

Menechino quotes: 

Spring Training 2022:

Quote

“The bottom line is: are you doing your homework?” Menechino said during spring training. “Are you prepared for that at-bat? Are you doing your homework? Are you prepared for those relievers? Are you doing your homework, and have a convicted plan that day? Whether I agree with it or not, do you have a plan that day for every pitcher you’re going to face? Because they have one for you. So, if you’re not doing your homework, and you think you’re going to be a see-ball, hit-ball guy, you’re going to hit a lot of groundballs. You’re not going to have that type of year you want. But if you’re in there every day doing your homework and come into the plate with a convicted plan, then you’ll start seeing more power.”

https://theathletic.com/3249352/2022/04/14/in-reversing-their-struggles-against-robbie-ray-white-sox-offense-continues-strong-start/

April 25, 2022:

Quote

“We’re getting slider’d to death, we’re getting offspeed to death,” Menechino said. “We’ve been more aggressive, especially on the fastball, and teams have recognized that and now they’re going to try to make us have patience, they’re going to tease us in and out of the zone, especially with offspeed. If you’re not taking your walks, you’re falling into their plan.”

Quote

 

“If you’re going to go out there and put 0-0 pitches weakly into play that’s not it,” Menechino said. “You can’t lose your approach after an 0-1 count. You can’t lose your approach up there. And if you have a good two-strike approach you don’t mind waiting that pitcher out, fouling balls off and not chasing, changing your location the way you’re looking. All that stuff plays into it. So you have to execute a two-strike approach and pass the baton because you can have a 13-pitch at-bat and set up the guy behind you to get a mistake. It all has to come together and everybody has to be focused on what they want to do.

“What I’ve seen a lot is guys are altering their swings, altering their paths. A lot of guys, when it’s cold out, they don’t want to get jammed, they don’t want to hit it off the end of the bat. So now they’re altering their swings. You can’t do that.”

 

Quote

“You guys can ask me a million questions a million different ways, but the bottom line is we’ve got to get mentally tough and we’ve got to get mentally into the game at-bat to at-bat,” Menechino said. “They’re doing their work, they’re preparing. When the game starts, it’s you get into that funk of, ‘Oh here we go again.’ The pitchers have been doing great, they’re keeping us in the game, and these guys want to try to do it so bad that you expand, you chase pitches. It’s just a perfect storm. That’s what’s happening.”

https://theathletic.com/3269157/2022/04/25/white-sox-seek-patience-to-reverse-offensive-slump-if-youre-not-taking-your-walks-youre-falling-into-their-plan/

Now, you stated earlier: 

Quote

Clearly Menechino felt the Sox were too patient last year and wants them to be more aggressive on pitches in the zone early in the count.

My point, along with others, is that doesn't seem very clear at all. 

[southsider2k5]

24 minutes ago, JoeCredeYes said:

So when a team goes from 6th most pitches seen per AB to 4th least pitches seen per AB year over year it's entirely on the players?  I don't buy it. 

Unless you have evidence that someone is telling them to swing more, yes.  It is on the players.  I mean a coach can talk until he is blue in the face, but it is the players who go out and execute the plan (or not in this case).  It isn't like it is unheard of for players to either ignore coaching, or not be able to adjust to changes suggested by coaches.

[ron883]

11 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

One player isn't going to carry an entire roster in that category - especially given that he lost significant time last year as well.

Yaz accounted for 6.2% of all White Sox PA's in 2021. 

edit; And sorry, Sox were 4th in walk rate. 9th in P/PA. Still, they clearly were one of the more patient teams in the game.

Wrong. Yaz accounted for 15% of the White Sox team walks. 87 walks, 23.2% walk rate. Him falling off a cliff would absolutely drag down the White Sox BB% a significant amount. 

[caulfield12]

5 minutes ago, ron883 said:

Wrong. Yaz accounted for 15% of the White Sox team walks. 87 walks, 23.2% walk rate. Him falling off a cliff would absolutely drag down the White Sox BB% a significant amount. 

Robert and Abreu's rates are probably down a bit, too.

But almost as big as Grandal's decline is missing Moncada in the lineup for a month in terms of OBP/walks.