TLR 2022 Thread

[greg775]

5 hours ago, Chi Town Sox said:

that’s not why there chants are coming up. It’s because the game has completely passed him by and he refuses to change and even the amateur fan can make better decisions at this point. 

I think this is all cliche ... blame the manager for everything. Look at this ballclub. It blows. The Hawk Harrelson podcast even had Hawk critical of Moncada and how he is awful. Add Moncada and Grandal's badness to that horrific bullpen, cmon, this has to do way more with Hahn than Tony. It just does. I just think our fans are better than this. Tony is likely a huge problem but not THE biggest problem.

[greg775]

1 hour ago, The Kids Can Play said:

1. Saddens you that the fans chanting is ridiculous. They pay a lot money to attend these games. They spend a small fortune on food and drinks to feed Jerry's pocket. - They have every right to voice their displeasure with this despicable and demented loser manager ruining this club.

2. They don't chant "Sell the team Jerry" or Fire Hahn! - I wish they would chant that more often and louder. Maybe if 30K fans chanted "Sell the Team" extremely loud and clear, even though it wouldn't change anything, at least  Jerry and Hahn could see the pain of the fans and how stupid Jerry's decision was to hire TLR.

3. To boo Tony like that is to imply he's the problem. - It's not implying he is a problem... it's a fact he is the problem! You defending him is not only ridiculous, but you're being a total contrarian!   Yes the bullpen sucks, but TLR has repeatedly blown games with his wrong choices of pitchers.

4. How about a lineup that most of the year has four to five automatic outs. - News Flash!...TLR hired this pathetic hitting coach Menechino who has this team hitting worse than when Renteria managed the club. Note - I wanted Renteria gone as much as anyone, but he looks like a genius compared to our bumbling manager.  Agreed TLR inherited this group of players underperforming and Rick Hahn definitely has to take major blame for that. The bottom line is, when a team struggles that had high expectations, managers have to take the blame and be unfortunately fired. Hence why Girardi from the Phillies and Maddon from the Angels were fired in the last two weeks. 

5. Singling out Tony IMO is very dumb and reflects poorly on Sox fans -  You get my vote for one of the top contrarians of the year on SoxTalk with ridiculous statements like that.

6. Really makes a fan look spoiled and dumb. - That is such bullshit! Our Sox fans are dedicated, loyal and smart fans. Maybe the die-hard Sox fans are finally tired of this unacceptable and pathetic manager and voicing their displeasure.

I love your post cause it's why I like message boards in theory. You went through my points and responded rather than picking one thing I wrote and burying me with a one-liner. I would like to point out in your great answer here you did acknowledge agreement with me on some of my points.  You actually did. So that means this LaRussa blame game is worthy of discussion not 100 percent agreement that the three-time world champ is a bum.

I will say...

1.) You said " with this despicable and demented loser manager ruining this club" ...  Cmon that's a bit harsh. If I said that about a certain government official I'd probably be banned. Perhaps not here but certainly kicked off social media. I wouldn't call Tony "despicable and demended loser."

2.) You agreed with me some.

3.) You said "Yes the bullpen sucks, but TLR has repeatedly blown games with his wrong choices of pitchers."

Cmon. I could go through the list of mediocre to bad relievers (certainly unreliable relievers) on this club.

4>) I can accept this post here about the hitting coach. That's kind of cliche too, to blame the hitting coach. I agree most of the Sox hitters have been awful and I wouldn't complain if they fire the hitting coach. I won't even complain if they fire Tony I just see it as sad our fans chant that crap.

5.) I think chants are kind of rude, I just do. I prefer my home crowd create a song like "na na na" which has lasted five decades. Proud of our fans for that one.

6.) You said: "Maybe the die-hard Sox fans are finally tired of this unacceptable and pathetic manager and voicing their displeasure." ... I can buy this part of the post. You don't like Tony a lot and have that right. We disagree on the chanting. I do agree prices are way out of line and fans do have the right to boo and chant. I'm surprised nobody else hates the chanting though.

Edited June 12, 2022 by greg775

[greg775]

3 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

The White Sox are the laughingstock of baseball.  They have earned this.  

Not the laughingstocks. Not that far yet.

This particular incident of walking a guy with a 1-2 count has been mocked though, and rightfully so. Tony (and all managers BTW) should copy Costanza and just do the opposite of what he feels is the right decision many times. BTW you could probably find a big "mistake or two" by a manager/coach in almost all losses.

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, greg775 said:

Not the laughingstocks. Not that far yet.

This particular incident of walking a guy with a 1-2 count has been mocked though, and rightfully so. Tony (and all managers BTW) should copy Costanza and just do the opposite of what he feels is the right decision many times. BTW you could probably find a big "mistake or two" by a manager/coach in almost all losses.

That’s not exactly a high bar to clear for a team with championship aspirations…

[greg775]

On 6/11/2022 at 10:55 AM, CentralChamps21 said:

Maybe this is a generational thing, but I've never had any interest in listening to people on the radio discuss sports.

Sometimes Howard Stern callers lead to funny takes/bits by Howard. And he gets rid of them if they can't get to their point quickly as a caller. I cringe when callers are longwinded and can't spit out their points.

[southsider2k5]

2 hours ago, greg775 said:

For me ... it's dumb to chant "Fire Tony" and act all hot and bothered when the Sox could have rallied to win and everybody would rock the place with cheers. Sure the fans pay their money and can do what they want to a certain extent but cmon. Do we have to be like the fans in Major League? Hawk supports Tony BTW.      

 

So you are hurt feelings over Sox fans ability to adjust to different situations?  You are so soft.  You couldn't make it as a millennial. 

[Paulie4Pres]

3 hours ago, greg775 said:

Sometimes Howard Stern callers lead to funny takes/bits by Howard. And he gets rid of them if they can't get to their point quickly as a caller. I cringe when callers are longwinded and can't spit out their points.

Why am I not surprised that you still listen to Howard Stern? Lol

[greg775]

8 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

So you are hurt feelings over Sox fans ability to adjust to different situations?  You are so soft.  You couldn't make it as a millennial. 

I get frustrated that people follow the cliches and don't think things out in sports and politics too. The evidence is that managers don't make a huge difference for one. For two, Tony has been given a roster decimated by injuries and with starters unable to go more than five and a horrific bullpen and a lineup that includes 3-4 AAA players on a given night. How can he expect to be over .500 with that?

I will say u can second guess a lot of crap he does but it's the same for all managers/coaches. A manager really can't win. If his team wins he gets no credit; the players do. If he loses you can ALWAYS point to stuff the manager did that went wrong. 

Sox fans are smart. In my opinion a smart fan looks at this roster and laughs, doesn't blame the manager. Defense (awful). Hitting (awful). Pitching: Pathetic except several good five inning starts. The team stinks. I'd give Tony a D this season so far. I'd give the team a D as well.

Edited June 13, 2022 by greg775

[South Side Hit Men]

21 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I get frustrated that people follow the cliches and don't think things out in sports and politics too. The evidence is that managers don't make a huge difference for one. For two, Tony has been given a roster decimated by injuries and with starters unable to go more than five and a horrific bullpen and a lineup that includes 3-4 AAA players on a given night. How can he expect to be over .500 with that?

I will say u can second guess a lot of crap he does but it's the same for all managers/coaches. A manager really can't win. If his team wins he gets no credit; the players do. If he loses you can ALWAYS point to stuff the manager did that went wrong. 

Sox fans are smart. In my opinion a smart fan looks at this roster and laughs, doesn't blame the manager. Defense (awful). Hitting (awful). Pitching: Pathetic except several good five inning starts. The team stinks. I'd give Tony a D this season so far. I'd give the team a D as well.

While I agree the GM is responsible for the roster, can you point to specifics attributes Tony is responsible for to make him a league average or a good / solid manager?

I believe a large number of people, be it fans or those around the game, feel Tony is not putting the players in the best position to win, that the team is playing sloppy uninspired baseball and has not improved fundamentally or with their approach beyond a few exceptions. I also believe many feel the team is playing tight and without joy, consistent with the atmosphere Tony creates.

Tony does not allow the players to get into a routine or rhythm with his daily tweaking of the lineup, and his decision making is dominated by handedness over effectiveness, until Hahn takes his "toys away". His attitude toward the media and fan base is arrogant and detracts from the entertainment fans should be having about this team. His staff is largely made up of cronies. The Lucas Giolito recruited Ethan Katz is the exception, the only coach who has shown demonstrable success the past two seasons in improving key players on this team. Catching has regressed under Narron. Defensive positioning and other statistical decisions has regressed under Duncan's son. Not sure what Miguel Cairo is tasked with / allowed to do. He accepted the other left-overs, outside of preparing Vaughn to attempt to play the OF, can't see anything else they are contributing to the team.

 

[hi8is]

Words…

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

I get frustrated that people follow the cliches and don't think things out in sports and politics too. The evidence is that managers don't make a huge difference for one. For two, Tony has been given a roster decimated by injuries and with starters unable to go more than five and a horrific bullpen and a lineup that includes 3-4 AAA players on a given night. How can he expect to be over .500 with that?

I will say u can second guess a lot of crap he does but it's the same for all managers/coaches. A manager really can't win. If his team wins he gets no credit; the players do. If he loses you can ALWAYS point to stuff the manager did that went wrong. 

Sox fans are smart. In my opinion a smart fan looks at this roster and laughs, doesn't blame the manager. Defense (awful). Hitting (awful). Pitching: Pathetic except several good five inning starts. The team stinks. I'd give Tony a D this season so far. I'd give the team a D as well.

More words…

28 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

While I agree the GM is responsible for the roster, can you point to specifics attributes Tony is responsible for to make him a league average or a good / solid manager?

I believe a large number of people, be it fans or those around the game, feel Tony is not putting the players in the best position to win, that the team is playing sloppy uninspired baseball and has not improved fundamentally or with their approach beyond a few exceptions. I also believe many feel the team is playing tight and without joy, consistent with the atmosphere Tony creates.

Tony does not allow the players to get into a routine or rhythm with his daily tweaking of the lineup, and his decision making is dominated by handedness over effectiveness, until Hahn takes his "toys away". His attitude toward the media and fan base is arrogant and detracts from the entertainment fans should be having about this team. His staff is largely made up of cronies. The Lucas Giolito recruited Ethan Katz is the exception, the only coach who has shown demonstrable success the past two seasons in improving key players on this team. Catching has regressed under Narron. Defensive positioning and other statistical decisions has regressed under Duncan's son. Not sure what Miguel Cairo is tasked with / allowed to do. He accepted the other left-overs, outside of preparing Vaughn to attempt to play the OF, can't see anything else they are contributing to the team.

 

 

[Chimpton]

12 hours ago, greg775 said:

I think this is all cliche ... blame the manager for everything. Look at this ballclub. It blows. The Hawk Harrelson podcast even had Hawk critical of Moncada and how he is awful. Add Moncada and Grandal's badness to that horrific bullpen, cmon, this has to do way more with Hahn than Tony. It just does. I just think our fans are better than this. Tony is likely a huge problem but not THE biggest problem.

But surely the manager is supposed to get the best out of players and that doesn't appear to be the case at the moment with most WS players. 

If managers were as irrelevant to a team's success as you imply then why even bother with employing an expensive manager who is supposedly vastly experienced, they might as well have stuck with Ricky Renteria because he was no worse than TLR. And with TLR's influence with JR I find it hard to believe that all the 'bad signings' like Harrison and Garcia were totally down to Hahn.

And what is wrong with fans venting at a team that is stumbling along under .500 that is supposedly in its 'window' for 'sustained success'? Being supportive and ra rar ra is one thing when a team is going through a blip or one bad game but a season long blip and even the most enthusiastic fan begins to lose faith.

 

[hi8is]

Giolito / Lynn / Kopech / Cease / Cueto

vs.

Giolito / Kopech / Cease / Cueto / Martin

=====
 

Anderson / Robert / Eloy / Abreu / Vaughn / Grandal / Pollock / Moncada / Mendick

vs.

Garcia / Vaughn / Robert / Abreu / Zavala / Harrison / suckassMoncada / Pollock / Sheets

=====
 

Hendricks / Graveman / Crochet / Bummer / Kelly / Lopez / Anyone else

vs.

Lopez / Ruiz / Foster / Sousa / No one else 

=====
 

AJ Hinch

vs.

Old arrogant asshat drunk fuckface walking people with two strikes 

[South Side Hit Men]

I’m old enough to remember Tony intentionally walking Albert Pujols in a White Sox loss to open the 2021 season.

Also remember Sox fans collectively holding their breath fearing Tony would claim Pujols, after the 41 year old Pujols was DFA’d by the Angels a few weeks later, because BFF cronyism.

Good times.

[Kyyle23]

6 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

I’m old enough to remember Tony intentionally walking Albert Pujols in a White Sox loss to open the 2021 season.

Also remember Sox fans collectively holding their breath fearing Tony would claim Pujols, after the 41 year old Pujols was DFA’d by the Angels a few weeks later, because BFF cronyism.

Good times.

We could and should do a "old enough to remember" thread about Tony.  No replies to other posts, just your recollection of a stupid moment or decision.  I think we could easily get that to 3 pages with only memories of fucked up decisions 

[GermanSoxFan]

I still think him having Hendriks run the bases because he didn’t know the rules is his biggest blunder.

Strangely enough that didn’t blow up as much on national  media as the infamous 1-2 international walk.

[wegner]

6 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

We could and should do a "old enough to remember" thread about Tony.  No replies to other posts, just your recollection of a stupid moment or decision.  I think we could easily get that to 3 pages with only memories of fucked up decisions 

I'm not sure that's a memory lane that I want to go down.  I'm depressed enough....not clinically mind you....please refrain from the do something else with your time if the White Sox upset you so much talk. (Not referring to you Kyyle just the armchair psychologist/social worker types).

[GermanSoxFan]

6 minutes ago, GermanSoxFan said:

I still think him having Hendriks run the bases because he didn’t know the rules is his biggest blunder.

Strangely enough that didn’t blow up as much on national  media as the infamous 1-2 international walk.

now that I think of it, the whole yermin 3-0 situation was probably even stupider

 

fuck it, i am making this thread

Edited June 13, 2022 by GermanSoxFan

[chw42]

24 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

I’m old enough to remember Tony intentionally walking Albert Pujols in a White Sox loss to open the 2021 season.

Also remember Sox fans collectively holding their breath fearing Tony would claim Pujols, after the 41 year old Pujols was DFA’d by the Angels a few weeks later, because BFF cronyism.

Good times.

They actually won that game, but walking Pujols almost resulted in Jose Iglesias hitting a go-ahead double off Liam Hendriks. 

IIRC, Tony wanted to walk Pujols because it would allow him to bring in Hendriks since Marshall had not yet faced 3 batters. Pujols was the 3rd batter, so that allowed him to bring in Hendriks to face the next hitter. It worked out, but barely. 

[Kyyle23]

14 minutes ago, wegner said:

I'm not sure that's a memory lane that I want to go down.  I'm depressed enough....not clinically mind you....please refrain from the do something else with your time if the White Sox upset you so much talk. (Not referring to you Kyyle just the armchair psychologist/social worker types).

I got my armchair psychologist license years ago, so we are good 

[wegner]

5 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I got my armchair psychologist license years ago, so we are good 

If they lose this series to the Tiggers, I might need your guidance.

[southsider2k5]

9 hours ago, greg775 said:

I get frustrated that people follow the cliches and don't think things out in sports and politics too. The evidence is that managers don't make a huge difference for one. For two, Tony has been given a roster decimated by injuries and with starters unable to go more than five and a horrific bullpen and a lineup that includes 3-4 AAA players on a given night. How can he expect to be over .500 with that?

I will say u can second guess a lot of crap he does but it's the same for all managers/coaches. A manager really can't win. If his team wins he gets no credit; the players do. If he loses you can ALWAYS point to stuff the manager did that went wrong. 

Sox fans are smart. In my opinion a smart fan looks at this roster and laughs, doesn't blame the manager. Defense (awful). Hitting (awful). Pitching: Pathetic except several good five inning starts. The team stinks. I'd give Tony a D this season so far. I'd give the team a D as well.

You just called Sox fans classless in a previous post, so I won't accept this post as honest either.  You are lying in one of them, or trolling in both.  Which is it? 

[southsider2k5]

27 minutes ago, GermanSoxFan said:

I still think him having Hendriks run the bases because he didn’t know the rules is his biggest blunder.

Strangely enough that didn’t blow up as much on national  media as the infamous 1-2 international walk.

BuT mAnAgErS dOn'T aFfEcT gAmEs

[wegner]

Just saw a video where Jim Bowden said it was time for a managerial change and for LaRussa to be bumped upstairs.  He said it hurt him to say so because Tony is a friend but it is time.

I'd rather have him out of the organization but I guess whatever it takes to get him out of the dugout.  I also see that the Phillies have played great since replacing Girardi....it may be too late in that division but it should not be too late in the AL Central.

[Iwritecode]

21 hours ago, greg775 said:

If I said that about a certain government official I'd probably be banned.

If I had a dollar for every time Greg was worried about being banned I could probably retire.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 6/12/2022 at 6:54 AM, soxfan49 said:

"Sell the team Jerry" doesn't have a great ring to it but that chant would be awesome!

Then just "Sell the team". Three syllable chants are always easy to do. Everyone knows who owns the team so you don't need to say Jerry.

Sell the team !

Sell the team !!

Sell the team !!!