A's interested in Andrew Vaughn/Sox in Montas

[Texsox]

52 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I don't even think they get that.  Sheets is a 26 yr old fringe avg 1B/DH with less than 200 career PA's. That's not exactly a rare commodity.  Every organization in baseball has their own Gavin Sheets type player so why would they make him the center of a trade?  The Cubs got Frank Schwindel off waivers.  He was 29 but the same type of 4A hitter.  These types of players aren't rare and it's the 9 millionth example of why you don't waste draft picks on first damn baseman. 

Agreed. Although I think we would agree the first baseman they drafted fifth in '89 wasn't a wasted draft pick. 

[caulfield12]

8 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Agreed. Although I think we would agree the first baseman they drafted fifth in '89 wasn't a wasted draft pick. 

One should also note Sox ranks in DH and RF production over most of the last decade...we always say and incessantly hear that corner spots minus 3B (and also 2B) are easy and cheap to fill.

Then not only don't fill them, but over allocate precious resources to those areas.

Just like over drafting collegiate relievers for 2-3 years but having very little to show for that emphasis.

Edited April 13, 2022 by caulfield12

[Chicago White Sox]

31 minutes ago, tray said:

IMO, it is best to see Vaughn or any prospect prove himself over time. That is all I am suggesting.  Vaughn has not done that yet.  He hit .235 with 15 HR last season. That was not a small sample size. In addition, scouting caught up with him toward the end of the year.  Vaughn is also a veritable tank, short wide and slow in the field. Sheets or Eloy are much faster than Vaughn   Vaughn is probably a DH on most teams

Sheets hasn't proven much yet either, but from what I have seen in person, he has the type of powerful LH swing that could produce a lot of key HR for the Sox.

Vaughn seems like surplusage at this point for the Sox , a team that has plenty of RH power and Abreu  firml;y in command at first base for a few more years.

Another consideration  with a trade is the player's wishes. Vaughn is a Left coaster who misses his old friends and family and might love playing for Oakland, which is  close to home for him.

 

Lol…that last point is plain dumb and just highlights your strange bias against Vaughn.

[southsider2k5]

10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Lol…that last point is plain dumb and just highlights your strange bias against Vaughn.

Especially because Gavin Sheets is just a right coaster who might enjoy playing somewhere else.

[The Kids Can Play]

19 hours ago, bmags said:

lol what? They have Montas to offer. That's the point.

Yeah Montas for Vaughn! ? Hahn can't wait to make that trade! LOL 

[bmags]

9 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Yeah Montas for Vaughn! ? Hahn can't wait to make that trade! LOL 

So just to make sure I understand your argument is that the As shouldn't try to get a good player for Montas because they have a bad farm and so they should accept worse players from a 30th ranked farm because they already suck?

I think that should work. You should pitch that to WBSWF in case Jerry appoints him GM soon.

[The Kids Can Play]

1 minute ago, bmags said:

So just to make sure I understand your argument is that the As shouldn't try to get a good player for Montas because they have a bad farm and so they should accept worse players from a 30th ranked farm because they already suck?

I think that should work. You should pitch that to WBSWF in case Jerry appoints him GM soon.

You obviously didn't get my point or sarcasm. your reply to me:   lol what? They have Montas to offer. That's the point. The A's can offer Montas all they want. Nobody is stopping them. My point was Montas is not enough value to get their wish of acquiring Vaughn. My original point was the A's want Vaughn, but they do not have enough talent to give us in return for Vaughn. Trading Vaughn to get Montas as you suggested, would be Hahn's worst trade ever. The 2019 #3 overall pick isn't going to be given away for for a mediocre pitcher like Montas. 

[bmags]

5 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

You obviously didn't get my point or sarcasm. your reply to me:   lol what? They have Montas to offer. That's the point. The A's can offer Montas all they want. Nobody is stopping them. My point was Montas is not enough value to get their wish of acquiring Vaughn. My original point was the A's want Vaughn, but they do not have enough talent to give us in return for Vaughn. Trading Vaughn to get Montas as you suggested, would be Hahn's worst trade ever. The 2019 #3 overall pick isn't going to be given away for for a mediocre pitcher like Montas. 

Then the real criticism should be the sox, who need pitching but haven't kept up with their depth, and can only offer their #3 overall pick for Montas while other teams can capture players with only their 10th through 30th. The As preferences are what happens - our lesser prospects aren't as competitive as what other teams could offer. There's a team that should kick rocks, it's just not the one you are focusing on.

[FoxForce2]

I would think Cespedes + somebody would be of some interest to the A's. The Cuban Connection is strong with the Sox but I doubt that trading Cespedes would be a morale sinking move for Pito, Robert et al. Of course the A's would likely want Colas instead and that's a non-starter at this point.
As for Vaughn in a trade for pretty much anyone ---pfftt. Make Katz do his work, even if it is making silk purses out of sow's ears.

Edited April 14, 2022 by FoxForce2

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

20 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

And AV has yet to start against a RHP, including the home opener.  Like I said, its a limited sample size.  But the early indications are what they are.  Gavin only play 1-2x a week isn't ideal for him either.  

Maybe , just maybe, Vaughn hasn't started a game at any position in the field since he hurt his hip diving in RF . Maybe TLR is just being extra careful with Vaughn and early indications are that he is being handled carefully in order to keep him healthier for the rest of the season since he was worn out at the end of the season since he admitted that himself.

With the depth the Sox have among the players playing the field it's not an ideal situation for quite a few of the players  to get as many AB's as they would like. WE may see Eloy rested in the same way after he fouled a ball off his ankle and Vaughn will start in LF.

[The Kids Can Play]

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

Then the real criticism should be the sox, who need pitching but haven't kept up with their depth, and can only offer their #3 overall pick for Montas while other teams can capture players with only their 10th through 30th. The As preferences are what happens - our lesser prospects aren't as competitive as what other teams could offer. There's a team that should kick rocks, it's just not the one you are focusing on.

I do agree with you the blame and criticism goes to the Sox for this pitching depth problem. Losing Giolito and Lynn to injuries and Crochet out for year for TJ surgery is a problem, especially when there aren't any pitchers to bring up. As we went through the rebuild, at one point we did have the top farm system, but many of those players are now on the Sox club or traded away. The Sox have done a poor job of drafting and developing pitchers in our farm system.

The bottom line is the Sox need to work harder at staying healthy. You would think we would have learned from 2021. In 2022 through 5 games the Sox already have the highest amount of payroll on IR at $62,550, 000. That is not only the highest in MLB, but 30 million ahead of the second place team in team payroll on IR.

 

[FoxForce2]

6 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

The bottom line is the Sox need to work harder at staying healthy. You would think we would have learned from 2021. In 2022 through 5 games the Sox already have the highest amount of payroll on IR at $62,550, 000. That is not only the highest in MLB, but 30 million ahead of the second place team in team payroll on IR.

 

Getting a #4-5 starter should have been a priority in the off-season. But the FO didn't seem to see it that way. Sigh
If I didn't know better, all the guys out of action would lead me to believe that some players just don't take to playing in Chicago in April. That is - if I didn't know better. I wonder how Correa is taking to playing in Minnesota in early Spring?
As for working to stay healthy - doesn't Chicago have some Pilates or Sportstretch training teams in the Metro area? I'm only half-joking with this.

[The Kids Can Play]

2 minutes ago, FoxForce2 said:

Getting a #4-5 starter should have been a priority in the off-season. But the FO didn't seem to see it that way. Sigh
If I didn't know better, all the guys out of action would lead me to believe that some players just don't take to playing in Chicago in April. That is - if I didn't know better. I wonder how Correa is taking to playing in Minnesota in early Spring?
As for working to stay healthy - doesn't Chicago have some Pilates or Sportstretch training teams in the Metro area? I'm only half-joking with this.

Your damn straight getting a #4-5 starter should have been a major priority in the off season of FA before the lockout, or even after. Of course when JR is cheap and clueless and doesn't let Hahn spend any money, this is what you get. 

I know you were half joking, but the sad thing is the Sox should be hiring an outside consultant to design a proper exercise conditioning program for the Sox that would include, Pilates, Yoga, proper core work and stretching routines. Btw, forget that cold weather playing in Chicago in April as a reason for the injuries. The Sox were pulling hamstrings in the summer last season! LOL!

[southsider2k5]

40 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Your damn straight getting a #4-5 starter should have been a major priority in the off season of FA before the lockout, or even after. Of course when JR is cheap and clueless and doesn't let Hahn spend any money, this is what you get. 

I know you were half joking, but the sad thing is the Sox should be hiring an outside consultant to design a proper exercise conditioning program for the Sox that would include, Pilates, Yoga, proper core work and stretching routines. Btw, forget that cold weather playing in Chicago in April as a reason for the injuries. The Sox were pulling hamstrings in the summer last season! LOL!

What does the current Sox work out program consist of?

[Two-Gun Pete]

1 hour ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Your damn straight getting a #4-5 starter should have been a major priority in the off season of FA before the lockout, or even after. Of course when JR is cheap and clueless and doesn't let Hahn spend any money, this is what you get. 

OK, this line of thinking needs to die a quick death. HERE IS A LINK for you to study whether or not JR lets "Hahn spend money" or not.

 

Here, I'll help you: The Chicago White Sox DO spend money. They have the 7th-highest payroll in MLB. It is NOT a question of spending money.

 

It is a question of whether or not those imbeciles in the FO are spending wisely or not. In my view, they spend, but they spend stupidly.

THIS LINK will show you how they spend. When a team asset allocates as they've chosen to do, that team will have holes elsewhere.

 

So again, the whole "JR is cheap" bullshit needs to die in a fire.

[Jack Parkman]

1 hour ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

OK, this line of thinking needs to die a quick death. HERE IS A LINK for you to study whether or not JR lets "Hahn spend money" or not.

 

Here, I'll help you: The Chicago White Sox DO spend money. They have the 7th-highest payroll in MLB. It is NOT a question of spending money.

 

It is a question of whether or not those imbeciles in the FO are spending wisely or not. In my view, they spend, but they spend stupidly.

THIS LINK will show you how they spend. When a team asset allocates as they've chosen to do, that team will have holes elsewhere.

 

So again, the whole "JR is cheap" bullshit needs to die in a fire.

The JR is cheap narrative comes from the fact that the Grandal contract is the largest in team history. 

I'm critical of the team budget myself, but that's because they continually trade prospects when they should be spending money to fill holes. This is the peak year of the window. 

So Jerry is cheap on individual player contracts but willing to spend on total payroll. He is unwilling to pay up for premium talent. That's a fact. 

Most of the largest contracts in team history are for 1B, corner OF, Catcher or Closer and those aren't as expensive as other more important positions.

Jerry is cheap will not die until he gives out multiple 9 figure deals or at least one $200M deal.  

 

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 hour ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

OK, this line of thinking needs to die a quick death. HERE IS A LINK for you to study whether or not JR lets "Hahn spend money" or not.

 

Here, I'll help you: The Chicago White Sox DO spend money. They have the 7th-highest payroll in MLB. It is NOT a question of spending money.

 

It is a question of whether or not those imbeciles in the FO are spending wisely or not. In my view, they spend, but they spend stupidly.

THIS LINK will show you how they spend. When a team asset allocates as they've chosen to do, that team will have holes elsewhere.

 

So again, the whole "JR is cheap" bullshit needs to die in a fire.

If you give your GM a budget 1 year out, he's cheap. It prevents long term investments which is cheap. It forces the front offices hands to spend on short term options that might have more questions. 

Arguing Jerry isn't cheap when he's the owner of one of four teams in baseball that have never given a 9 figure contract is silly. You can be cheap while also spending money. My wife buys $500 of stuff from Marshalls because she gets more option for her money. Those items are still cheap. 

[ptatc]

1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

If you give your GM a budget 1 year out, he's cheap. It prevents long term investments which is cheap. It forces the front offices hands to spend on short term options that might have more questions. 

Arguing Jerry isn't cheap when he's the owner of one of four teams in baseball that have never given a 9 figure contract is silly. You can be cheap while also spending money. My wife buys $500 of stuff from Marshalls because she gets more option for her money. Those items are still cheap. 

So if I spend 1 million dollars on one house, I'm not cheap. But if I spend 1 million dollars on 4 houses, I am?

[Balta1701]

Just now, ptatc said:

So if I spend 1 million dollars on one house, I'm not cheap. But if I spend 1 million dollars on 4 houses, I am?

If you spend $200,000 on one house, it's not cheap. But if you spend $50k each on 4 houses...might be pretty darn cheap?

[ptatc]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If you spend $200,000 on one house, it's not cheap. But if you spend $50k each on 4 houses...might be pretty darn cheap?

I'm trying to follow the logic of the last few posts. 

Apparently if you spend the same amount of money but do it on a few players your cheap because you haven't spent it on a single player.

The amount of money doesn't make it cheap but how you spread it around does.

[SoCalChiSox]

5 hours ago, FoxForce2 said:

I would think Cespedes + somebody would be of some interest to the A's. The Cuban Connection is strong with the Sox but I doubt that trading Cespedes would be a morale sinking move for Pito, Robert et al. Of course the A's would likely want Colas instead and that's a non-starter at this point.
 

I would kindly remind Billy Beane that he should avail himself of the benefits of putting his dick in a running blender if he asked for Oscar Colas.

LH savages should not be moved. Period.

[wegner]

36 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I'm trying to follow the logic of the last few posts. 

Apparently if you spend the same amount of money but do it on a few players your cheap because you haven't spent it on a single player.

The amount of money doesn't make it cheap but how you spread it around does.

Look, it's all a bit technical but the important thing to remember is that our team's future is secure.

[Sarava]

25 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I'm trying to follow the logic of the last few posts. 

Apparently if you spend the same amount of money but do it on a few players your cheap because you haven't spent it on a single player.

The amount of money doesn't make it cheap but how you spread it around does.

Reinsdorf will spend money in spurts, but he's very risk averse. They'll spend at the top of the market for relief pitchers and even Grandal as a catcher. Those are short term deals. Like the Keuchel contract. It's a contract that is going south on the White Sox, but it's a shorter 3 year deal and his risk is limited. He clearly favors deals like this. 

It's the total dollars and the length of the commitment. He has an out and can have a much lower payroll a couple years from now if he chooses. I think you understand and are just trying to argue or debate?

I agree with Jack. Until they go out and sign someone at the top of the market, or hell, even give one of their own home grown stars a massive 9 figure deal - the evidence is undeniable.

[ptatc]

27 minutes ago, Sarava said:

Reinsdorf will spend money in spurts, but he's very risk averse. They'll spend at the top of the market for relief pitchers and even Grandal as a catcher. Those are short term deals. Like the Keuchel contract. It's a contract that is going south on the White Sox, but it's a shorter 3 year deal and his risk is limited. He clearly favors deals like this. 

It's the total dollars and the length of the commitment. He has an out and can have a much lower payroll a couple years from now if he chooses. I think you understand and are just trying to argue or debate?

I agree with Jack. Until they go out and sign someone at the top of the market, or hell, even give one of their own home grown stars a massive 9 figure deal - the evidence is undeniable.

I guess I understand what you are saying but dont understand the concept. To me cheap means you aren't spending the money.  187 million is 187 million no matter if you have 10 really good players or 1 superstar and 9 ok players.

So it's not a matter of being cheap as much as it is how to allocate the money.

[Richie]

32 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I'm trying to follow the logic of the last few posts. 

Apparently if you spend the same amount of money but do it on a few players your cheap because you haven't spent it on a single player.

The amount of money doesn't make it cheap but how you spread it around does.

House analogy does not translate to begin with. There's no set amount of houses you "MUST" have. 

In baseball, there's a set amount of players on a big league roster. The amount you must carry during a given season is 26 (until September, obviously).

The White Sox have elected to spread out a chunk of money to fill a certain number of spots with "good" players. When they could have filled one of those holes with a great one. Spending more. They chose not to do that and settled for "good" free agents.