A's interested in Andrew Vaughn/Sox in Montas

[caulfield12]

4 hours ago, ron883 said:

Burger is putting himself on the map. Dude keeps raking and he could be a big piece in a trade for a starter. 

He's literally "big." More valuable than Yermin last April. Certainly.  But he would have to hit like this for 2+ months and play above average 3B during that time...which might make him more valuable to the Sox depending on Moncada's health going forward.

[Richie]

On 4/14/2022 at 7:32 PM, ptatc said:

Correct. But still spent the same amount of money. So should they have 2 super stars and the rest replacement level or do they spread it around and have a number of really good players but not the superstars?

Either way it s the same amount of money. Like I said I guess my definition of cheap is different.

The 7th highest payroll in baseball is not high when you consider that only half of the league is making an attempt to contend at any given time. 

I don't think the White Sox are necessarily cheap, but they don't break the bank open either. I wouldn't be critical if they did so for just one superstar. One superstar instead of a "good" "moderately high priced" signing currently on their roster and I wouldn't have a single complaint. 

[michelangelosmonkey]

1 hour ago, Richie said:

The 7th highest payroll in baseball is not high when you consider that only half of the league is making an attempt to contend at any given time. 

I don't think the White Sox are necessarily cheap, but they don't break the bank open either. I wouldn't be critical if they did so for just one superstar. One superstar instead of a "good" "moderately high priced" signing currently on their roster and I wouldn't have a single complaint. 

A superstar like Marcus Semien??  Sox ties, perfect positional fit, sure he's 32 and coming off a career year...but Sox could have had him for $175 million and all of Soxtalk would have had a glorious winter, and ten games in, when he's hitting .128 with almost no power or walks...it would be the apocalypse on Soxtalk.  We already have a bunch of superstars (many also struggling) so they spent the money on depth.  Let's see how it plays out before we call them stupid.    

[poppysox]

1 hour ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

A superstar like Marcus Semien??  Sox ties, perfect positional fit, sure he's 32 and coming off a career year...but Sox could have had him for $175 million and all of Soxtalk would have had a glorious winter, and ten games in, when he's hitting .128 with almost no power or walks...it would be the apocalypse on Soxtalk.  We already have a bunch of superstars (many also struggling) so they spent the money on depth.  Let's see how it plays out before we call them stupid.    

We think alike on this point.

[Jerksticks]

1 hour ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

A superstar like Marcus Semien??  Sox ties, perfect positional fit, sure he's 32 and coming off a career year...but Sox could have had him for $175 million and all of Soxtalk would have had a glorious winter, and ten games in, when he's hitting .128 with almost no power or walks...it would be the apocalypse on Soxtalk.  We already have a bunch of superstars (many also struggling) so they spent the money on depth.  Let's see how it plays out before we call them stupid.    

This.  Either the Sox are sitting on the sidelines or they are trying to position themselves to retain their “superstars at almost every position” for the long haul.  It seems obvious to me but we’ll see.  

[wrathofhahn]

On 4/15/2022 at 10:27 AM, wrathofhahn said:

I have no idea why we didn't do the deal.

It seems like what the Padres got and what we could have offered up natched perfectly I think the Twins massively underpaid. I would have been more than happy to do the same deal with Sheets and Bummer

I don't know what is funny about this Paddock would easily be a good 4th/5th starter. I'd have done the trade in a second and still would. Y'all fall in love with relievers way too quickly I remember when half the board refused to trade Jace Frye.

I am not looking to trade Bummer but if there is an opportunity to sell high you take it

[ChiSox59]

34 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

I don't know what is funny about this Paddock would easily be a good 4th/5th starter. I'd have done the trade in a second and still would. Y'all fall in love with relievers way too quickly I remember when half the board refused to trade Jace Frye.

I am not looking to trade Bummer but if there is an opportunity to sell high you take it

Easy to say right now after Bummer has been terrible to start the year.  I am probably one of the biggest Chris Paddack fans that isn't a PAdres or Twins fan, and I wouldn't do that deal.

You couldn't subtract Kimbrel, Bummer and Crochet from this bullpen the week before Opening Day just to add a SP that has half a UCL and is a ticking timebomb.  Paddack has looked OK so far, but as teams see him multiple times the 2 pitch mix is going to hurt him.  You also have the fact that if the UCL does eventually go, he's a non-tender.  

Also Jace Fry is nothing like Aaron Bummer except for the side of their body they throw with. 

 

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, wrathofhahn said:

I don't know what is funny about this Paddock would easily be a good 4th/5th starter. I'd have done the trade in a second and still would. Y'all fall in love with relievers way too quickly I remember when half the board refused to trade Jace Frye.

I am not looking to trade Bummer but if there is an opportunity to sell high you take it

Except the Padres wanted an established closer who was much cheaper than Kimbrel…and already had Pomeranz and Hill from the LH side.

[caulfield12]

29 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Easy to say right now after Bummer has been terrible to start the year.  I am probably one of the biggest Chris Paddack fans that isn't a PAdres or Twins fan, and I wouldn't do that deal.

You couldn't subtract Kimbrel, Bummer and Crochet from this bullpen the week before Opening Day just to add a SP that has half a UCL and is a ticking timebomb.  Paddack has looked OK so far, but as teams see him multiple times the 2 pitch mix is going to hurt him.  You also have the fact that if the UCL does eventually go, he's a non-tender.  

Also Jace Fry is nothing like Aaron Bummer except for the side of their body they throw with. 

 

That said, unless Kopech is at 96-99, he’s not much different from Paddack as a predominantly two pitch pitcher…

Edited April 29, 2022 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

On 4/18/2022 at 7:54 AM, poppysox said:

We think alike on this point.

Well, we could also pick 10+ pitchers like Wacha or Rodon that would have us with a much better record…or Seiya Suzuki if they hadn’t held onto Kimbrel and been forced to add yet another aging, slightly less expensive ballplayer.

That money was available because they were recently willing to give it to Giolito.

Now it likely goes to Cease, Kopech or TA7 for an expensive extension.  Or a very thin FA group next offseason.

[ChiSox59]

9 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

That said, unless Kopech is at 96-99, he’s not much different from Paddack as a predominantly two pitch pitcher…

They're completely different.  

[Chicago White Sox]

19 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

That said, unless Kopech is at 96-99, he’s not much different from Paddack as a predominantly two pitch pitcher…

?

[caulfield12]

6 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

They're completely different.  

Paddack throws 93-96 touching 97.

Eventually Kopech is going to have to 1) be more precise with his slider, 2) add more non-hanging curves to the mix or 3) get back to his expected 96-100 velocity.

When he was a rookie, he was one of the most hyped young pitchers in the game.  Maybe not quite as highly regarded as Kopech, but he wasn’t worlds behind, either.

As the weather heats up and flyballs and warning track flyouts begin to leave the yard with higher frequency Kopech is going to have to make some major adjustments.

It’s one thing against the Indians or Royals…but neither will end up the year as top offenses.

[caulfield12]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

?

“Paddack has looked OK so far, but as teams see him multiple times the 2 pitch mix is going to hurt him.”
 

My argument is that this is exactly what Kopech is, at least right now.

There are some pitchers that can get away with that mix…05-06 Jose Contreras threw just two pitches 90% of the time and was the best pitcher in baseball during that stretch.

Let’s see how Kopech does against really good offenses outside the AL Central.

[FoxForce2]

58 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

 

There are some pitchers that can get away with that mix…05-06 Jose Contreras threw just two pitches 90% of the time and was the best pitcher in baseball during that stretch.

Let’s see how Kopech does against really good offenses outside the AL Central.

Contreras as baseball's best in '05-'06 is a stretch. Very good-occasional excellent in '05 and good-very good in '06 seem better descriptors. In 2005 both Buehrle and Garland put up better metrics among several others across both leagues.
Contreras was a pretty smart pitcher and I'd say had a leg up on Kopech WRT 2-pitch style, at least in varying speeds/location and even delivery. i.e. He had a savvy that experience might bring to Kopech, but it's pretty early in K's career to expect him to be a grizzled vet. In any case, to last in modern baseball, K needs to get a third pitch going. But right now, his slider isn't exactly reminding anyone of Steve Carlton.
Right now, I'd say the Jays, Yankees and Stro's have a good chance of lighting him up.

Edited April 29, 2022 by FoxForce2

[Balta1701]

56 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

“Paddack has looked OK so far, but as teams see him multiple times the 2 pitch mix is going to hurt him.”
 

My argument is that this is exactly what Kopech is, at least right now.

There are some pitchers that can get away with that mix…05-06 Jose Contreras threw just two pitches 90% of the time and was the best pitcher in baseball during that stretch.

Let’s see how Kopech does against really good offenses outside the AL Central.

What’s actually ironic is that Statcast says Kopech has thrown his slider 14.3% so far this year and his curveball 16.8%.

(His fastball usage is up from before in statcast because so far he hasn’t used a changeup).

[FoxForce2]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

What’s actually ironic is that Statcast says Kopech has thrown his slider 14.3% so far this year and his curveball 16.8%.

(His fastball usage is up from before in statcast because so far he hasn’t used a changeup).

That is interesting. How reliable is Statcast in discerning the difference between a curve and a slider?

[caulfield12]

22 minutes ago, FoxForce2 said:

Contreras as baseball's best in '05-'06 is a stretch. Very good-occasional excellent in '05 and good-very good in '06 seem better descriptors. In 2005 both Buehrle and Garland put up better metrics among several others across both leagues.
Contreras was a pretty smart pitcher and I'd say had a leg up on Kopech WRT 2-pitch style, at least in varying speeds/location and even delivery. i.e. He had a savvy that experience might bring to Kopech, but it's pretty early in K's career to expect him to be a grizzled vet. In any case, to last in modern baseball, K needs to get a third pitch going. But right now, his slider isn't exactly reminding anyone of Steve Carlton.
Right now, I'd say the Jays, Yankees and Stro's have a good chance of lighting him up.

Isolate August 2005 until he got injured in May in Cincinnati the following year.

That’s the specific stretch.

Nobody in the world would claim Buehrle or Garland were ever the best in the entire sport during a four month timespan including the postseason.

And yes he did take the only lost that October in a very close game against Paul Byrd of all people.

[caulfield12]

17 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

What’s actually ironic is that Statcast says Kopech has thrown his slider 14.3% so far this year and his curveball 16.8%.

(His fastball usage is up from before in statcast because so far he hasn’t used a changeup).

What was it last year out of the pen?  Had to be at nearly twice as many sliders…

Swing and miss percentage on both pitches?