Look at Ray Ray Run Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 35 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Track record be damned, I think VV has more upside as a starter than Keuchel. I think DK is cooked, Shields style. Velasquez is about to be 30 years old and hasn't really had a season better than keuchel last year since around 2018. Vv blows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Velasquez is about to be 30 years old and hasn't really had a season better than keuchel last year since around 2018. Vv blows. Choosing between VV and Keuchel is like choosing which turd is more polished. VV is the more polished turd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wegner Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 19 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Choosing between VV and Keuchel is like choosing which turd is more polished. VV is the more polished turd. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said: I just hope Dallas is decent enough to eat 15-20 starts and get us to late July when we can acquire an expiring asset SP to improve the rotation. Yeah hopefully if he gets destroyed early in games, he can be his own mop up guy ala James Shields. Going to need to save the pen as often as possible early on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wegner Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 31 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: Yeah hopefully if he gets destroyed early in games, he can be his own mop up guy ala James Shields. Going to need to save the pen as often as possible early on. Haha I had totally memory dumped that he pitched over 200 innings in 2018. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 2 hours ago, ChiSox59 said: I just hope Dallas is decent enough to eat 15-20 starts and get us to late July when we can acquire an expiring asset SP to improve the rotation. I don't hate Dallas like so many here. He is capable of throwing 4 or 5 innings of keeping us in the game until help arrives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 9 minutes ago, poppysox said: I don't hate Dallas like so many here. He is capable of throwing 4 or 5 innings of keeping us in the game until help arrives. Can't be having his option vest. They were idiots and let him get just over 160 innings last year. If they kept him at 158 they wouldn't have to worry about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Can't be having his option vest. They were idiots and let him get just over 160 innings last year. If they kept him at 158 they wouldn't have to worry about it. I don’t think you are correct there. If he pitched 158 last year, then the option would kick in if he pitches 162 this year. I’m pretty sure it kicks in if the two-year total is 320, with AT LEAST 160 this year. So even if he pitched 200 innings last year, he would still need 160 this year for the option to kick in. Edited April 11, 2022 by SoxBlanco 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 5 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said: I don’t think you are correct there. If he pitched 158 last year, then the option would kick in if he pitches 162 this year. I’m pretty sure it kicks in if the two-year total is 320, with AT LEAST 160 this year. So even if he pitched 200 innings last year, he would still need 160 this year for the option to kick in. I believe this is correct. In any event, Sox won't let that happen. They'll just DFA him before he gets to that point. We're a long way away from having to really worry about this. He's unlikely to throw 160 innings even if the Sox wanted him to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 9 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said: I don’t think you are correct there. If he pitched 158 last year, then the option would kick in if he pitches 162 this year. I’m pretty sure it kicks in if the two-year total is 320, with AT LEAST 160 this year. So even if he pitched 200 innings last year, he would still need 160 this year for the option to kick in. Ok I stand corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 3 hours ago, Jack Parkman said: Can't be having his option vest. They were idiots and let him get just over 160 innings last year. If they kept him at 158 they wouldn't have to worry about it. No doubt about that...just think he is serviceable in that 4 or 5 inning role I described. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 13 hours ago, ChiSox59 said: I believe this is correct. In any event, Sox won't let that happen. They'll just DFA him before he gets to that point. We're a long way away from having to really worry about this. He's unlikely to throw 160 innings even if the Sox wanted him to. If starters keep getting injured he may have to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaDoc Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 14 hours ago, ChiSox59 said: I believe this is correct. In any event, Sox won't let that happen. They'll just DFA him before he gets to that point. We're a long way away from having to really worry about this. He's unlikely to throw 160 innings even if the Sox wanted him to. Under the premise , he has to be somewhat effective to approach 160, you would expect a grievance being filed. He could quite possibly win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 15 hours ago, Jack Parkman said: Can't be having his option vest. They were idiots and let him get just over 160 innings last year. If they kept him at 158 they wouldn't have to worry about it. Now we have this year’s Kimbrel situation…a guy we didn’t even want on our 2021 postseason roster is currently in danger of making $20 million in 2023. Ironically, that right in the neighborhood of the money we were going to have to pay Carlos Rodon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 24 minutes ago, BamaDoc said: Under the premise , he has to be somewhat effective to approach 160, you would expect a grievance being filed. He could quite possibly win. ERA under 5.25ish roughly…but also depends on the numbers of Kopech, Lopez, VV, Cueto, another starter we acquire and our AA/AAA replacements like Lambert and McClure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Now we have this year’s Kimbrel situation…a guy we didn’t even want on our 2021 postseason roster is currently in danger of making $20 million in 2023. Ironically, that right in the neighborhood of the money we were going to have to pay Carlos Rodon. Actually I was incorrect it was 320 combined over 2021-22 Since he threw 162 in 2021, the magic number is 158 this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Actually I was incorrect it was 320 combined over 2021-22 Since he threw 162 in 2021, the magic number is 158 this year. And that minimum of 160 last year was just barely met…if they blocked him at that point (denying one final 2021 start), another grievance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 4 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Actually I was incorrect it was 320 combined over 2021-22 Since he threw 162 in 2021, the magic number is 158 this year. If the team needs to innings due to injuries, do they suck it up and pay him next year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, ptatc said: If the team needs to innings due to injuries, do they suck it up and pay him next year? If he sucks they can DFA him when Lynn comes back and roll with Cueto. Cueto can eat innings just as badly as DK can. Idk how this feels but as fans we kinda should want him to suck this year because I don't think anyone wants him on the books for another year, Sox included. Edited April 12, 2022 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 14 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Actually I was incorrect it was 320 combined over 2021-22 Since he threw 162 in 2021, the magic number is 158 this year. That's still not correct. The magic number is 160 this year. For the option to vest, BOTH of these things must happen: 320 total combined innings in 2021 and 2022 160 innings in 2022 So once he hit 160 last year, he could have gone all the way up to 200, and the magic number would still be 160 this year. However, if he had only pitched 120 innings last year, then the magic number would be 200 innings this year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 16 minutes ago, ptatc said: If the team needs to innings due to injuries, do they suck it up and pay him next year? I just don't see anyway that happens. If he's got a 3.20 ERA or something in mid-June, maybe....but if he's anything like the Dallas of 2021, there is no way he approaches 160 IP, and the Sox won't let themselves be on the hook for 20 million in 2023. No way, no how. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 34 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: If he sucks they can DFA him when Lynn comes back and roll with Cueto. Cueto can eat innings just as badly as DK can. Idk how this feels but as fans we kinda should want him to suck this year because I don't think anyone wants him on the books for another year, Sox included. What if he pitches like 2020 not 2021 and Cueto gets bombed? Its going to be a weird year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 17 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: If he sucks they can DFA him when Lynn comes back and roll with Cueto. Cueto can eat innings just as badly as DK can. Idk how this feels but as fans we kinda should want him to suck this year because I don't think anyone wants him on the books for another year, Sox included. It's pretty sad that Cueto on a minor league deal was better last year than Keuchel making $18M. 1.5 fWAR for Cueto in 16 starts and Keuchel .6 fWAR in 30 starts. Cueto also K's more and walks less per 9 IP than Keuchel. Of course JC pitched in SF while Keuchel pitched here so Cueto could be just as bad or worse here . His 1st year here was damn good but if his last 2 stink getting Wheeler instead of Keuchel could've made a big difference. Still it makes me wonder if the Keuchel durabilty and rep as a quality innings eater was more important at the front of the window than taking a shot on Rodon being excellent with durability issues smack dab in the middle of the contention window. Obviously the Sox were hoping Keuchel could be more valuable during the middle of the window but it hasn't yet. Chalk another one up (so far) for good money on mediocrity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 5 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: It's pretty sad that Cueto on a minor league deal was better last year than Keuchel making $18M. 1.5 fWAR for Cueto in 16 starts and Keuchel .6 fWAR in 30 starts. Cueto also K's more and walks less per 9 IP than Keuchel. Of course JC pitched in SF while Keuchel pitched here so Cueto could be just as bad or worse here . His 1st year here was damn good but if his last 2 stink getting Wheeler instead of Keuchel could've made a big difference. Still it makes me wonder if the Keuchel durabilty and rep as a quality innings eater was more important at the front of the window than taking a shot on Rodon being excellent with durability issues smack dab in the middle of the contention window. Obviously the Sox were hoping Keuchel could be more valuable during the middle of the window but it hasn't yet. Chalk another one up (so far) for good money on mediocrity. What were the odds of Keuchel being really strong at this point in his career when almost nobody wanted to touch him coming off that season with the Braves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 8 minutes ago, ptatc said: What if he pitches like 2020 not 2021 and Cueto gets bombed? Its going to be a weird year. As Keuchel had a 0.3 HR/9 in 2020 and exactly 0 qualified starters had that low of a HR/9 in the more normal length 2021, I will give you a bet right now that Keuchel won’t pitch like he did in 2020 as his numbers that year were a short season mirage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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