HOME OPENER GAMETHREAD 4/12/22: Sox vs Mariners (Velasquez vs Brash) 3:10 pm CDT

[Baron]

Trading Sheets away is going to keep Tony from doing stupid shit like this 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

LOl you sure read a lot into "debated". There's a lot more to talk about with the lineup than just Vaughn. I would imagine keeping Grandal as healthy as possible while keeping him in the lineup and getting another LH who happens to be a really good defensive catcher was a good part of the debate too.

since you're such a big fan of small sample sizes dictating future playing time, Sheets has a 000 OPS this year, Vaughns is 1455.

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

LOl you sure read a lot into "debated". There's a lot more to talk about with the lineup than just Vaughn. I would imagine keeping Grandal as healthy as possible while keeping him in the lineup and getting another LH who happens to be a really good defensive catcher was a good part of the debate too.

Why else would you need to explain to Vaughn why he was benched, and that it would take a 15 to 20 minute debate to hash out with the coaching staff?  Both times righties have started, Vaughn has been benched for Sheets. It seems really obvious to me that Vaughn being benched is the central issue here, otherwise there wouldn't be a debate or sit down needed.

[wegner]

"Andrew....I heard it's all over that tweeter thing that you're probably getting traded.  I'm not sure you'll be here much longer so I'm not going to start you tomorrow.  Ok?  Great.  Send in Gavin on your way out...I've got some exciting news for him."

[he gone.]

1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Problem is they need half a dozen position player regulars plus three average or better SP out of it. They need 2/3 of Lewis, Kelenic and Rodriguez to be stars and then fill in around them with average regulars. Pitching they need similar, two TOR guys to emerge and then fill in around. They got a long way to go imo.

I'd disagree.  Kirby, Brash and Hancock will all get innings this year and learn at the MLB level as Gilbert did last year. Ray and Gilbert will continue to anchor go forward. Marco Gonzalez is a serviceable 4/5. Flexen as well. You already have 4 serviceable guys ... and three extremely talented prospects. That rotation will be very, very good. It will show flashes this year but just like Gio, Cease, and many other young pitchers they will take a 1-2 years to learn. That rotation alone is enough to keep them in any conversation of division winner + playoff competitors. Much easier to slot in with signings like Robbie Grossman or Cahna types in FA than it is to go out and pay for guys like Robbie Ray. 

The offense has a very good future too and based on the names they were in on (Bryant, Suzuki, etc.) + how aggressive their GM is I don't see them sitting on the sidelines. You have a combo of JP Crawford, Marte, Toro (UTIL), France (UTIL), Frazier (2b/OF) Lewis, Kelenic, Winker, JRod, Evan White, Raleigh, Murphy, etc. etc. Who knows what they do with Haniger, but this team has a whole host of solid guys. Right now they have a bunch of very serviceable guys kind of out of the SF Giant mode. Or the Rays. None blow you away individually but as a whole and multiple position eligibility. 

I don't think they'll hit the 90 wins they did last year ... it's possible ... but don't see that happening. That said starting as soon as next year I think they're a real ALCS contender and probably in 2024+ they are a real WS contender. 

 

[Jerksticks]

1 minute ago, he gone. said:

I'd disagree.  Kirby, Brash and Hancock will all get innings this year and learn at the MLB level as Gilbert did last year. Ray and Gilbert will continue to anchor go forward. Marco Gonzalez is a serviceable 4/5. Flexen as well. You already have 4 serviceable guys ... and three extremely talented prospects. That rotation will be very, very good. It will show flashes this year but just like Gio, Cease, and many other young pitchers they will take a 1-2 years to learn. That rotation alone is enough to keep them in any conversation of division winner + playoff competitors. Much easier to slot in with signings like Robbie Grossman or Cahna types in FA than it is to go out and pay for guys like Robbie Ray. 

The offense has a very good future too and based on the names they were in on (Bryant, Suzuki, etc.) + how aggressive their GM is I don't see them sitting on the sidelines. You have a combo of JP Crawford, Marte, Toro (UTIL), France (UTIL), Frazier (2b/OF) Lewis, Kelenic, Winker, JRod, Evan White, Raleigh, Murphy, etc. etc. Who knows what they do with Haniger, but this team has a whole host of solid guys. Right now they have a bunch of very serviceable guys kind of out of the SF Giant mode. Or the Rays. None blow you away individually but as a whole and multiple position eligibility. 

I don't think they'll hit the 90 wins they did last year ... it's possible ... but don't see that happening. That said starting as soon as next year I think they're a real ALCS contender and probably in 2024+ they are a real WS contender. 

 

Cool now do that for us

[reiks12]

how can you sit Vaughn on opening day, just unreal coaching. This organization is so infuriating 

[Baron]

Tigers are struggling against Rich Hill if that helps anyone 

[daggins]

Pretty hilarious.

"Andrew is not a platoon player."

Gotcha. So why is Sheets starting in RF today?

"For the platoon advantage."

Real "Who's On First" shit from Tony.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Why else would you need to explain to Vaughn why he was benched, and that it would take a 15 to 20 minute debate to hash out with the coaching staff?  Both times righties have started, Vaughn has been benched for Sheets. It seems really obvious to me that Vaughn being benched is the central issue here, otherwise there wouldn't be a debate or sit down needed.

Look for a young player who started off hot a good manager is going to sit down with him and tell him why and reassure him he will get plenty of AB's. Nothing is obvious to me because I don't make assumptions like everyone else does that Vaughn is a problem for TLR.  It's a long long season and you are panicking over nothing.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

13 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

since you're such a big fan of small sample sizes dictating future playing time, Sheets has a 000 OPS this year, Vaughns is 1455.

I have no idea what you are talking about . Can you please clarify ?

[ChiSox59]

15 minutes ago, Baron said:

Trading Sheets away is going to keep Tony from doing stupid shit like this 

This. It sucks we have to punt depth to save ourselves from our manager, but this is the answer. If AV can’t even get into the lineup against a righty with AJP unavailable, what’s that mean when we’re full strength? If Sheets doesn’t start the season well, kinda hope Hahn just sends him to Charlotte until an everyday role opens up. 

[SoxBlanco]

This is like deja vu from last year after the first handful of games.  "Why are we burning a year of service for Vaughn if we aren't going to play him every day?!?!"

He ended up playing 127 games. Yes, I know not all of those were starts, but he still played a lot.

I'm probably a bigger Vaughn supporter than anybody here and I want him playing a lot this year, but there's no need to overreact this early in the year.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 minute ago, SoxBlanco said:

This is like deja vu from last year after the first handful of games.  "Why are we burning a year of service for Vaughn if we aren't going to play him every day?!?!"

He ended up playing 127 games. Yes, I know not all of those were starts, but he still played a lot.

I'm probably a bigger Vaughn supporter than anybody here and I want him playing a lot this year, but there's no need to overreact this early in the year.

I think it's pretty obvious this is not true.

[pcq]

45 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

I trust Vaughn against a nasty slider from RHP more than I trust Jimenez or Abreu, personally. But that's also factoring in improvements from Vaughn that I'm confident, but not positive he has made yet

Jose really needs to just look at some pitches today, don't expand the zone.

[SoxBlanco]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I think it's pretty obvious this is not true.

Based on what?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

This is like deja vu from last year after the first handful of games.  "Why are we burning a year of service for Vaughn if we aren't going to play him every day?!?!"

He ended up playing 127 games. Yes, I know not all of those were starts, but he still played a lot.

I'm probably a bigger Vaughn supporter than anybody here and I want him playing a lot this year, but there's no need to overreact this early in the year.

You mix the most popular guy on the Sox next to TA and throw in the most hated manager and this is what it leads to.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

Based on what?

Based on the fact that Ray Ray is his lover

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 minute ago, SoxBlanco said:

Based on what?

The fact that you're fine with him being out of the starting lineup in 2 of the 4 games this year that happen to coincide with them facing righties? I am a huge Vaughn fan, I think he should play everyday but for a few days off here and there as is typical. Let's put it this way, it is a big enough deal that the manager had to go and explain his reasoning to the player 1 on 1. Is it the end of the world? obviously not. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Based on the fact that Ray Ray is his lover

that's Mr Vaughn to you pal.

[Dick Allen]

He was bad against RHP last year, but did improve toward the end. You don't put up the numbers Vaughn put up in college not being able to hit RHP. He will figure it out. But in order to do that, he will need to face them.

[SoxBlanco]

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The fact that you're fine with him being out of the starting lineup in 2 of the 4 games this year that happen to coincide with them facing righties? I am a huge Vaughn fan, I think he should play everyday but for a few days off here and there as is typical. Let's put it this way, it is a big enough deal that the manager had to go and explain his reasoning to the player 1 on 1. Is it the end of the world? obviously not. 

Alright, if you don't believe me, here are some posts from me:

On 4/3/2022 at 11:06 AM, SoxBlanco said:

He’s one of the best hitters to come out of the draft in the last ten years. He held his own after skipping AA and AAA. Yes, he might hit like an MVP at some point in the next few years. 

 

On 3/13/2022 at 5:08 PM, SoxBlanco said:

Sheets played his age 22 season in A ball and then his age 23 season in AA. Vaughn played his age 21 season in A ball, then missed a competitive year because of COVID, and then played his age 23 season in the major leagues. And Vaughn’s numbers weren’t much different last year than what Sheets did in AA at age 23. 

I think people underestimate how good of a hitter Vaughn can be.

On 3/30/2022 at 11:14 AM, SoxBlanco said:

Exactly. Vaughn should not be part of any platoon.  Vaughn can play RF against RHP, with Sheets as the DH.  When we face a LHP, Vaughn can be the DH (or LF, with Eloy DH sometimes) and Engel can play RF.

On 3/3/2021 at 11:39 AM, SoxBlanco said:

I've never been more confident in a player not becoming a bust. All you have to do is watch his at-bats. He gives a professional at-bat almost every time up. He has a great approach with a great eye, and he has such a nice, compact swing.

 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

SB, I believe you like Vaughn ha. This isn't a vaughn fanhood pissing match, although if it were my stream would be long and strong, I was just saying that those who are bothered about La Russa treating him as a weak side platoon to start the year have a real gripe. 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

SB, I believe you like Vaughn ha. This isn't a vaughn fanhood pissing match, although if it were my stream would be long and strong, I was just saying that those who are bothered about La Russa treating him as a weak side platoon to start the year have a real gripe. 

same shit, different year

[GermanSoxFan]

It’s almost like Tony wasn’t the best guy to hire as manager.

Edited April 12, 2022 by GermanSoxFan