At what point does Hahn "blow it up"?

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, SCCWS said:

I would think Lopez is a also an option or may even be rated higher than Cueto. We will see him vs MLB as opposed to MILB

We saw last year how stubborn they are about moving guys from the bullpen to the rotation with Kopech in the 2nd half. We're seeing it again right now - they'd rather start VV, Keuchel, and Lambert than remove Lopez from the pen. They might try Banks with a start at this rate before Lopez?

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

56 minutes ago, SCCWS said:

I would think Lopez is a also an option or may even be rated higher than Cueto. We will see him vs MLB as opposed to MILB

Great point. He’s looked very good the last two years. Certainly a serviceable 5th starter at worst.

[SonofaRoache]

6 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

It’s the LaRussa Legacy!  Cardinals Way!  Well, unless your manager (Schildt) is a bit too racist and curses too much for even Missourians.

TLR had a great run in STL. Can't imagine that same person keeps batting Leury 3rd when we have much better options available. 

[Jack Parkman]

Playing Sheets in RF and Haseley in LF is next level sabotage bullshit. That's about as WTF as it gets. 

Edited April 22, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[Two-Gun Pete]

7 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

As for other moves of significance, like last season, I don’t see that happening until July at the trade deadline. I think they’ll wait to see what weaknesses present themselves and make a move like they did when they acquired the top reliever at last year’s trade deadline in attempt to address an awful bullpen.

Wait, what?

[ron883]

4 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Playing Sheets in RF and Haseley in LF is next level sabotage bullshit. That's about as WTF as it gets. 

If the White Sox were to miss the playoffs this year, would you be in favor of rebuilding the team? They're obviously capped out payroll wise. 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

2 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Wait, what?

Don’t understand the question?

[Jack Parkman]

2 minutes ago, ron883 said:

If the White Sox were to miss the playoffs this year, would you be in favor of rebuilding the team? They're obviously capped out payroll wise. 

If they miss? I think I'd keep some guys and re-structure. Build around Vaughn and Robert. 

The guys I'd move at the TDL if they're out of it are Giolito, Hendriks and Lynn. 

Even though it's a hard choice, if they're not in 1st place at the TDL I'd consider blowing it up. Rick Hahn needs to not be the guy making those trades though. 

Edited April 22, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[zisk]

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

If they miss? I think I'd keep some guys and re-structure. Build around Vaughn and Robert. 

If Eloy has a good 2 weeks, I'd trade him for a pitcher.

[Jack Parkman]

1 minute ago, zisk said:

If Eloy has a good 2 weeks, I'd trade him for a pitcher.

Oh hell yeah. Completely agreed. 

That's something that should have happened this winter. It would have been unpopular though. 

If the Marlins wanted to do it, I'd trade Eloy for Luzardo right now. I think the Marlins believe in JL though. 

Edited April 22, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

6 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

If they miss? I think I'd keep some guys and re-structure. Build around Vaughn and Robert. 

The guys I'd move at the TDL if they're out of it are Giolito, Hendriks and Lynn. 

Even though it's a hard choice, if they're not in 1st place at the TDL I'd consider blowing it up. Rick Hahn needs to not be the guy making those trades though. 

This is insanity. Every important player is under team control next season, except Pollock perhaps. Why would you blow it up this year or this offseason? That makes no sense.

[Balta1701]

5 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

This is insanity. Every important player is under team control next season, except Pollock perhaps. Why would you blow it up this year or this offseason? That makes no sense.

The idea that this team will be totally out of the race by the trade deadline seems so far fetched that in that case sure it probably makes sense to trade some of the survivors. I have a hard time figuring out how that’s even possible though - we’ve seen white Sox teams implode because of bad coaching before (2013, 2011, 2016) but none of those were nearly this talented, and none of them had a 12 team playoff race.

[Jack Parkman]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The idea that this team will be totally out of the race by the trade deadline seems so far fetched that in that case sure it probably makes sense to trade some of the survivors. I have a hard time figuring out how that’s even possible though - we’ve seen white Sox teams implode because of bad coaching before (2013, 2011, 2016) but none of those were nearly this talented, and none of them had a 12 team playoff race.

I didn't say being totally out of it, the bar is even higher than that. I said I'd consider tearing it down if they're not in 1st place at the TDL. 

If they can't completely dominate this shitty division, in this season,  there's no point. That would make the rebuild a complete failure and heads would need to roll. 

Edited April 22, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[Balta1701]

4 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I didn't say being totally out of it, the bar is even higher than that. I said I'd consider tearing it down if they're not in 1st place at the TDL. 

If they can't completely dominate this shitty division, in this season,  there's no point. That would make the rebuild a complete failure and heads would need to roll. 

There’s zero chance of that and even then I wouldn’t do it. There’s enough pitching on this team that even if they’re on pace for 85 wins, they’re a postseason threat and can be trying to add at the deadline. You’ve got to be talking about >5 games under .500 at the deadline before I’m convinced about selling the survivors.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

8 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The idea that this team will be totally out of the race by the trade deadline seems so far fetched that in that case sure it probably makes sense to trade some of the survivors. I have a hard time figuring out how that’s even possible though - we’ve seen white Sox teams implode because of bad coaching before (2013, 2011, 2016) but none of those were nearly this talented, and none of them had a 12 team playoff race.

The entire thought process was so far out there. Makes zero sense to begin dismantling this team when they’re still by far the most talented team in the division this year and next.

[Jack Parkman]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

There’s zero chance of that and even then I wouldn’t do it. There’s enough pitching on this team that even if they’re on pace for 85 wins, they’re a postseason threat and can be trying to add at the deadline. You’ve got to be talking about >5 games under .500 at the deadline before I’m convinced about selling the survivors.

I can't help but wonder if Kopech will be available for the postseason. 

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I can't help but wonder if Kopech will be available for the postseason. 

While it’s a fair point, it’s someone’s job to make sure he is. Whether that’s Katz or someone worse I won’t say.

[Dick Allen]

16 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

The entire thought process was so far out there. Makes zero sense to begin dismantling this team when they’re still by far the most talented team in the division this year and next.

They are already 1 game out of first place. It's over. Back up the truck and start over.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

13 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

They are already 1 game out of first place. It's over. Back up the truck and start over.

If Parkman was GM, the Braves never would have won the World Series last year. On July 31, they were two games under .500 and 5 games out of first place. He’d be waving the white flag!

[Two-Gun Pete]

1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Don’t understand the question?

So, you claim that the 2021 Chicago White Sox had a bad bullpen? By what metric?

 

Or, are you simply defending the Kimbrel trade to carry water for the FO?

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

10 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

So, you claim that the 2021 Chicago White Sox had a bad bullpen? By what metric?

 

Or, are you simply defending the Kimbrel trade to carry water for the FO?

Their bullpen was in shambles last July. They had one reliable reliever at the time - Hendriks. Were we watching the same team?

[Two-Gun Pete]

17 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Their bullpen was in shambles last July. They had one reliable reliever at the time - Hendriks. Were we watching the same team?

We'll use THESE NUMBERS from Fangraphs, which show the different MLB bullpens by the TDL last season. The SOX were:

• 5th in fWAR at the TDL, despite pitching THE FEWEST IP in MLB up to the TDL, 
• 10th in FIP at the TDL,
• 6th in SAVES, and
• 12th in HOLDS

IOW, they were REALLY, REALLY good [based on fWAR], despite pitching the fewest IP in the game. They were top 10 in Saves and middle of the road in Holds, proving that they didn't have "one reliable reliever at the time," or else one of these stats or the other would have been weak.

Of course, since SOX RPs appeared in the 2nd fewest games, and had the fewest IP in MLB at the TDL, the HOLDS category was suppressed by the fact that TLR doesn't know how to use a bullpen in the 21st Century.

 

So what, exactly, were you trying to sell us to carry water for the FO again?

Edited April 22, 2022 by Two-Gun Pete

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

We'll use THESE NUMBERS from Fangraphs, which show the different MLB bullpens by the TDL last season. The SOX were:

• 5th in fWAR at the TDL, despite pitching THE FEWEST IP in MLB up to the TDL, 
• 10th in FIP at the TDL,
• 6th in SAVES, and
• 12th in HOLDS

IOW, they were REALLY, REALLY good [based on fWAR], despite pitching the fewest IP in the game. They were top 10 in Saves and middle of the road in Holds, proving that they didn't have "one reliable reliever at the time," or else one of these stats or the other would have been weak.

Of course, since SOX RPs appeared in the 2nd fewest games, and had the fewest IP in MLB at the TDL, the HOLDS category was suppressed by the fact that TLR doesn't know how to use a bullpen in the 21st Century.

 

So what, exactly, were you trying to sell us to carry water for the FO again?

Literally all of those key details are because they had the pitcher with the highest WAR in MLB bullpens and the AL Saves leader. Aside from "Middle of the pack in holds" everything else you just noted was "Liam Hendriks is quite good".

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

1 minute ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

We'll use THESE NUMBERS from Fangraphs, which show the different MLB bullpens by the TDL last season. The SOX were:

• 5th in fWAR at the TDL, despite pitching THE FEWEST IP in MLB up to the TDL, 
• 10th in FIP at the TDL,
• 6th in SAVES, and
• 12th in HOLDS

IOW, they were REALLY, REALLY good [based on fWAR], despite pitching the fewest IP in the game. They were top 10 in Saves and middle of the road in Holds, proving that they didn't have "one reliable reliever at the time," or else one of these stats or the other would have been weak.

Of course, since SOX RPs appeared in the 2nd fewest games, and had the fewest IP in MLB at the TDL, the HOLDS category was suppressed by the fact that TLR doesn't know how to use a bullpen in the 21st Century.

 

So what, exactly were you trying to sell us to carry water for the FO again?

Lol. I don’t care what stats you want to throw out there, there was no one they could trust in late inning situations outside of Hendriks last July. Kopech was the only other reliable late inning reliever at the time but he was coming off a June IL stint and there were already concerns about fatigue/effectiveness.

[Two-Gun Pete]

Just now, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Lol. I don’t care what stats you want to throw out there, there was no one they could trust in late inning situations outside of Hendriks last July. Kopech was the only other reliable late inning reliever at the time but he was coming off a June IL stint and there were already concerns about fatigue/effectiveness.

LOL, was that the "eye test" metric you're using?

Sorry, but numbers don't lie. You [and more importantly, RH] were dead wrong on that. I knew it BEFORE they squandered assets on Kimbrel, pretty much the rest of SOX fans discovered it this offseason, which leaves just you and RH to defend this move.