What The Actual F# Is Wrong With This Team?

[Tnetennba]

Serious question.  
 

[Spumoni]

Thanks for asking, feeling the same way. This is the worst I’ve felt about the Sox in a long time.

[Spumoni]

Don’t have a good answer if it wasn’t clear.

[hi8is]

1.) injuries 

2.) TLR

3.) bad stretch of baseball, period.

4.) injuries

5.) TLR

oops, I’m repeating myself…

6.) Check back in with me mid May.

[Chimpton]

43 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Serious question.  
 

More serious is the thought that the 'years of success' promised during the rebuild appear to be over, the squad was not good enough to advance in the post season last 2 years and if anything looks worse this season, the farm system is empty so no possible trade chips there and there is no possibility of more money from Jerry, and there are too many underperforming players on big fat contracts who no one else would want, so I'm not sure where any improvement would come from. I know injuries are crippling the squad but the complete lack of depth was an issue for most on here but not the FO, and even if they were all fit that only puts us back where we were last season when the post season lasted one dismal series. 

[Ducksnort]

Literally the only thing I am holding on to right now, is you never know what is going to happen in this game. It's a long season. That said, the injuries need to stop. This team doesn't have the depth to overcome it. Without the players that are currently injured, we might as well be the twins, the Indians, the Tigers or the royals. I was so excited for this season to start. Now...this latest Eloy injury is the straw and camel for me. I'm about ready to focus my energy on other things. It's literally getting to the point where someone is hurt every day. And... didn't they replace the training staff already last offseason? These guys are just glass houses.

[caulfield12]

10 minutes ago, ScooterMcGuire said:

Literally the only thing I am holding on to right now, is you never know what is going to happen in this game. It's a long season. That said, the injuries need to stop. This team doesn't have the depth to overcome it. Without the players that are currently injured, we might as well be the twins, the Indians, the Tigers or the royals. I was so excited for this season to start. Now...this latest Eloy injury is the straw and camel for me. I'm about ready to focus my energy on other things. It's literally getting to the point where someone is hurt every day. And... didn't they replace the training staff already last offseason? These guys are just glass houses.

Yes, last November 5th, Allen Thomas’ contract wasn’t renewed.

[Flash]

4 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

Serious question.  
 

Sox are not a team in the sense model organizations (Cardinals, Rays, Astros, others) are. The Sox are a collection of individual contributors, each with enough talent to tease a bit of optimism but each with flaws to their game. Be it mental/physical toughness, lack of range, poor plate discipline, poor pitch recognition or just weak in fundamentals, this bunch is lacking throughout the lineup. There appears to be no 'team culture' , no veteran leadership, no camaraderie and no sense of playing for one another. For periods of time, you can mask team flaws with pitching excellence. When Gio, Lynn, Cease and Kopech are 'right' Sox have a better than fighting chance at a W but not signing Rodon changed the calculus and shines the spotlight back on the position players...a group of individuals who show up and collect paychecks.  

[Harry Chappas]

12 minutes ago, Flash said:

Sox are not a team in the sense model organizations (Cardinals, Rays, Astros, others) are. The Sox are a collection of individual contributors, each with enough talent to tease a bit of optimism but each with flaws to their game. Be it mental/physical toughness, lack of range, poor plate discipline, poor pitch recognition or just weak in fundamentals, this bunch is lacking throughout the lineup. There appears to be no 'team culture' , no veteran leadership, no camaraderie and no sense of playing for one another. For periods of time, you can mask team flaws with pitching excellence. When Gio, Lynn, Cease and Kopech are 'right' Sox have a better than fighting chance at a W but not signing Rodon changed the calculus and shines the spotlight back on the position players...a group of individuals who show up and collect paychecks.  

Pretty much sums it up

[Ducksnort]

32 minutes ago, Flash said:

Sox are not a team in the sense model organizations (Cardinals, Rays, Astros, others) are. The Sox are a collection of individual contributors, each with enough talent to tease a bit of optimism but each with flaws to their game. Be it mental/physical toughness, lack of range, poor plate discipline, poor pitch recognition or just weak in fundamentals, this bunch is lacking throughout the lineup. There appears to be no 'team culture' , no veteran leadership, no camaraderie and no sense of playing for one another. For periods of time, you can mask team flaws with pitching excellence. When Gio, Lynn, Cease and Kopech are 'right' Sox have a better than fighting chance at a W but not signing Rodon changed the calculus and shines the spotlight back on the position players...a group of individuals who show up and collect paychecks.  

Not sure where you're getting this info from. From everything I've heard this is a tight knit group.

[Ducksnort]

58 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Yes, last November 5th, Allen Thomas’ contract wasn’t renewed.

What?

[Bob Sacamano]

9 minutes ago, ScooterMcGuire said:

What?

Who really ever knows

[Flash]

Was not referring to how well they get along off the field (if that is what you mean by 'tight knit'). On the field, I see no sense of team spirit and/or combined purpose. I see a bunch of individually talented (and flawed) baseball players from various backgrounds who have yet to coalesce as a team. Individual contributors who also like one another isn't necessarily mutually exclusive.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

It’s 14 games. We’re not even 10% of the way into the season. Thru 14 games, they have the same record as last season. Division still sucks so I’m not worried. The Sox are never as bad as they look during stretches like this and they’re never as good as they look during win streaks either. Let’s see how the next few months play out before freaking out.

[caulfield12]

25 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Who really ever knows

It's literally getting to the point where someone is hurt every day. And... didn't they replace the training staff already last offseason? These guys are just glass houses.
 

He asked a simple question. 
WHY IS READING SO DIFFICULT?

I would have to assume that most Sox fans are relatively well informed and it didn’t require a lengthy explanation.

 

“General manager Rick Hahn announced Friday that Allen Thomas, the team’s head of strength and conditioning, will not have his contract renewed as the White Sox “reimagine” that department.

Thomas had been a staple of the organization for nearly three decades, 2021 being his 27th with the team. After playing two minor league seasons for the White Sox in 1996 and 1997, he was hired to the conditioning staff in 1998, 18 of those many seasons spent as the director of strength and conditioning.

But the White Sox are making a change after a season that was, in part, defined by significant injuries to key pieces. Middle-of-the-order hitters Eloy Jiménez, Luis Robert and Yasmani Grandal missed months at a time. Nick Madrigal was knocked out for the season before being traded across town in a deadline deal. And there were plenty more trips to the injured list between April and October, many of them the result of hamstring issues.”

 

Then there’s his son who just happens to be a left-handed hitting outfielder we didn’t draft because we apparently have too many Top 100 prospects in our organization.

 

“It didn’t take Thomas long to live up to his reputation as one of the better prep hitters in his Draft class. A compact left-handed swing that yields hard, line-drive contact to all fields along with an advanced approach fuels Thomas' projection as a plus hitter. His approach and his power took steps forward in 2021 as he showed more discipline and hit a career-high 18 homers. While it’s unlikely he’ll ever be a slugger, Thomas has shown the ability to drive the ball and could rack up between 15-20 homers a year once he’s in the Majors. Outstanding instincts, along with a strong baseball acumen, enhance Thomas’ plus speed on the bases and in center field, where he has a chance to stay. Thomas could move to left if needed, but his below-average arm would likely keep him out of right.

Thomas receives some comparisons to 2019 first-rounder Corbin Carroll for having an advanced, well-rounded game that could enable him to move quickly. He has an incredibly high floor, and club officials like his chances of developing into at least a well-rounded regular at the highest level.”  Source: mlb.com

 

It didn’t take Thomas long to live up to his reputation as one of the better prep hitters in his Draft class. A compact left-handed swing that yieldIt didn’t take Thomas long to live up to his reputation as one of the better prep hitters in his Draft class. A compact left-handed swing that yields hard, line-drive contact to all fields along with an advanced approach fuels Thomas' projection as a plus hitter. His approach and his power took steps forward in 2021 as he showed more discipline and hit a career-high 18 homers. While it’s unlikely he’ll ever be a slugger, Thomas has shown the ability to drive the ball and could rack up between 15-20 homers a year once he’s in the Majors. Outstanding instincts, along with a strong baseball acumen, enhance Thomas’ plus speed on the bases and in center field, where he has a chance to stay. Thomas could move to left if needed, but his below-average arm would likely keep him out of right.Thomas receives some comparisons to 2019 first-rounder Corbin Carroll for having an advanced, well-rounded game that could enable him to move quickly. He has an incredibly high floor, and club officials like his chances of developing into at least a well-rounded regular at the highest level.

s hard, line-drive contact to all fields along with an advanced approach fuels Thomas' projection as a plus hitter. His approach and his power took steps forward in 2021 as he showed more discipline and hit a career-high 18 homers. While it’s unlikely he’ll ever be a slugger, Thomas has shown the ability to drive the ball and could rack up between 15-20 homers a year once he’s in the Majors. Outstanding instincts, along with a strong baseball acumen, enhance Thomas’ plus speed on the bases and in center field, where he has a chance to stay. Thomas could move to left if needed, but his below-average arm would likely keep him out of right.

Thomas receives some comparisons to 2019 first-rounder Corbin Carroll for having an advanced, well-rounded game that could enable him to move quickly. He has an incredibly high floor, and club officials like his chances of developing into at least a well-rounded regular at the highest level.

 

Edited April 24, 2022 by caulfield12

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

18 minutes ago, Flash said:

Was not referring to how well they get along off the field (if that is what you mean by 'tight knit'). On the field, I see no sense of team spirit and/or combined purpose. I see a bunch of individually talented (and flawed) baseball players from various backgrounds who have yet to coalesce as a team. Individual contributors who also like one another isn't necessarily mutually exclusive.

Isn’t that baseball though?

https://not.fangraphs.com/the-ultimate-individual-sport/

[Bob Sacamano]

3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

It's literally getting to the point where someone is hurt every day. And... didn't they replace the training staff already last offseason? These guys are just glass houses.
 

He asked a simple question. 
WHY IS READING SO DIFFICULT?

I would have to assume that most Sox fans are relatively well informed and it didn’t require a lengthy explanation.

 

“General manager Rick Hahn announced Friday that Allen Thomas, the team’s head of strength and conditioning, will not have his contract renewed as the White Sox “reimagine” that department.

Thomas had been a staple of the organization for nearly three decades, 2021 being his 27th with the team. After playing two minor league seasons for the White Sox in 1996 and 1997, he was hired to the conditioning staff in 1998, 18 of those many seasons spent as the director of strength and conditioning.

But the White Sox are making a change after a season that was, in part, defined by significant injuries to key pieces. Middle-of-the-order hitters Eloy Jiménez, Luis Robert and Yasmani Grandal missed months at a time. Nick Madrigal was knocked out for the season before being traded across town in a deadline deal. And there were plenty more trips to the injured list between April and October, many of them the result of hamstring issues.”

 

Then there’s his son who just happens to be a left-handed hitting outfielder we didn’t draft because we apparently have too many Top 100 prospects in our organization.

 

“It didn’t take Thomas long to live up to his reputation as one of the better prep hitters in his Draft class. A compact left-handed swing that yields hard, line-drive contact to all fields along with an advanced approach fuels Thomas' projection as a plus hitter. His approach and his power took steps forward in 2021 as he showed more discipline and hit a career-high 18 homers. While it’s unlikely he’ll ever be a slugger, Thomas has shown the ability to drive the ball and could rack up between 15-20 homers a year once he’s in the Majors. Outstanding instincts, along with a strong baseball acumen, enhance Thomas’ plus speed on the bases and in center field, where he has a chance to stay. Thomas could move to left if needed, but his below-average arm would likely keep him out of right.

Thomas receives some comparisons to 2019 first-rounder Corbin Carroll for having an advanced, well-rounded game that could enable him to move quickly. He has an incredibly high floor, and club officials like his chances of developing into at least a well-rounded regular at the highest level.”  Source: mlb.com

 

It didn’t take Thomas long to live up to his reputation as one of the better prep hitters in his Draft class. A compact left-handed swing that yieldIt didn’t take Thomas long to live up to his reputation as one of the better prep hitters in his Draft class. A compact left-handed swing that yields hard, line-drive contact to all fields along with an advanced approach fuels Thomas' projection as a plus hitter. His approach and his power took steps forward in 2021 as he showed more discipline and hit a career-high 18 homers. While it’s unlikely he’ll ever be a slugger, Thomas has shown the ability to drive the ball and could rack up between 15-20 homers a year once he’s in the Majors. Outstanding instincts, along with a strong baseball acumen, enhance Thomas’ plus speed on the bases and in center field, where he has a chance to stay. Thomas could move to left if needed, but his below-average arm would likely keep him out of right.Thomas receives some comparisons to 2019 first-rounder Corbin Carroll for having an advanced, well-rounded game that could enable him to move quickly. He has an incredibly high floor, and club officials like his chances of developing into at least a well-rounded regular at the highest level.

s hard, line-drive contact to all fields along with an advanced approach fuels Thomas' projection as a plus hitter. His approach and his power took steps forward in 2021 as he showed more discipline and hit a career-high 18 homers. While it’s unlikely he’ll ever be a slugger, Thomas has shown the ability to drive the ball and could rack up between 15-20 homers a year once he’s in the Majors. Outstanding instincts, along with a strong baseball acumen, enhance Thomas’ plus speed on the bases and in center field, where he has a chance to stay. Thomas could move to left if needed, but his below-average arm would likely keep him out of right.

Thomas receives some comparisons to 2019 first-rounder Corbin Carroll for having an advanced, well-rounded game that could enable him to move quickly. He has an incredibly high floor, and club officials like his chances of developing into at least a well-rounded regular at the highest level.

 

Yeah, I’m not reading all that.

[caulfield12]

6 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Yeah, I’m not reading all that.

See, reading comprehension problems…

At least 50% of the posters on this board know who he is or are at least familiar with his name and the story about his son turning into one of the better prospects in baseball.

Even interns who work in the front offices of Tampa Bay, Oakland, Milwaukee, Houston, LAD, Cleveland, Atlanta, etc., READ and RESEARCH a lot.

Obviously, in retrospect, Thomas was the scapegoat for more endemic organizational and player personnel/evaluation issues that are as of today unresolved.

Edited April 24, 2022 by caulfield12

[Flash]

9 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Isn’t that baseball though?

https://not.fangraphs.com/the-ultimate-individual-sport/

Wow...really had to dig through the archives (6/17/2011) to pull up that piece. Solid point(s) though.  

[Flash]

15 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

It’s 14 games. We’re not even 10% of the way into the season. Thru 14 games, they have the same record as last season. Division still sucks so I’m not worried. The Sox are never as bad as they look during stretches like this and they’re never as good as they look during win streaks either. Let’s see how the next few months play out before freaking out.

Does the division really suck?

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

2 minutes ago, Flash said:

Wow...really had to dig through the archives (6/17/2011) to pull up that piece. Solid point(s) though.  

Google. But baseball is a very different type of team sport than say basketball or football. Much more of an individual sport by nature.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Just now, Flash said:

Does the division really suck?

Yes. Bunch of mediocre teams. I think 85 wins is enough to win the division this year. All it took was 81 last year.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

^to this point, the Sox’ four ALC rivals are 9-19 outside the division so far this year. Ugly. None of these teams are running away with the division anytime soon.

[wegner]

19 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

^to this point, the Sox’ four ALC rivals are 9-19 outside the division so far this year. Ugly. None of these teams are running away with the division anytime soon.

Our Sox are 2-6 within the division.  I realize it's very early but yikes.

[NWINFan]

Obviously one bad week and one losing streak will not define a season. And, yes, it's early. But I don't think it's too early to be concerned. What we have seen is some real bad baseball. Additionally, the offense, except for one game against the Tigers, hasn't really been there. Not to mention an old manager who says and does weird things.

In cases like this, most organizations would at least think of firing the manager. A change at manager sometimes motivates a team. But I don't think the FO will fire LaRussa. Not Tony LaRussa.

The division is not going to get away from the Sox, at least not yet. But I don't think this last week can be rationalized or laughed off. If the FO has no urgency, I would hope the players would have some. The Sox have just lost five straight to division rivals.