Moncada to be back on Monday

[Texsox]

I'm just happy we're debating who's better. I don't think Burger is there yet, but maybe next season and probably 2024 he's the almost everyday guy. 

[caulfield12]

17 minutes ago, Texsox said:

If I was trying to make a career in baseball I'd look at Leury Garcia, buy five gloves, and start using them. There's a hole, I'll fill it. I think Burger is talented enough to pull it off. 

 

Are you being serious?  Hard to tell here.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

6 minutes ago, Polar Bear said:

Moncada had the most errors in baseball by a 3B in 2021.....

See, this is a great post that just reiterates my above post about you and Jack.

Devers had 22 errors, Yoan 16. So your negative point was actually wrong by quite a bit.

[southsider2k5]

23 minutes ago, Polar Bear said:

Nothing has changed.  Still love Moncada which is why I've never said Burger deserves a roster spot over him.  I just feel Moncada needs to be at 2B and Burger at 3B to optimize this lineup and put our best product on the field.   

Hell, my username was Moncada for the longest time, I've just seen a large regression in his hitting ability ever since he got covid.  I'm really hoping having the first month plus off has allowed him to regain that fire and power that has been missing from his game, bc we definitely need it and him in the lineup 

Leury, Sheets, Mendick, and Harrison are what is not needed.  None of those 4 deserve a spot over Burger, not one.

Burger is a guy that if we traded will go off and have a spectacular career.  It's just embarrassing that the Sox would rather play crap guys and roster crap guys over him.  

It's about roster management.

Jake Burger can play a passable 3B and 1B.

We have like 10 guys on the roster who can play 1st.  No room there.  Jake Burger is also right handed in a roster full of right handers.  

Yoan Moncada is the White Sox starting 3B, and the best 3B on the roster offensively,  defensively,  singingly, and sexily.  Yoan is better than Jake Burger in every facet of the game except fairy tail story. Any argument otherwise is trash both figuratively and on any fact basis.

Leury plays every position except catcher. Same with Harrison. They both even play 3B defensively as good, or probably better than Burger does.  They can also contribute at 2nd, SS, and in the OF defensively.  Burger does none of those.

Danny Mendick has a gold glove nomination at 2B.  They were afraid to let Burger even play 2nd.  Mendick can also fill in at SS, and in the OF in a pinch. Again, not Burger. Heck Danny Mendick has put up about 100 higher OPS points or a 112 + number, vs Burgers 87.

Gavin Sheets has shown an ability to stand in the OF. Burger has not. Gavin Sheets can provide left handed power. Jake Burger cannot.  

When you make up a bench, you want to make sure that the guys you have on it do somethings that compliment the rest of your roster. If Jake Burger isn't hitting,  which he hasn't since the Slider train showed up, he brings no value to the bench.

[southsider2k5]

13 minutes ago, Polar Bear said:

Moncada had the most errors in baseball by a 3B in 2021.....

Yoan Moncada is a gold glove nominee.

[Big Hurtin]

Burger was never going to take PT from Moncada.  If he wanted to stay over Sheets, he needed to learn to hit left handed. (because TLR... you know)

[Polar Bear]

4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

It's about roster management.

Jake Burger can play a passable 3B and 1B.

We have like 10 guys on the roster who can play 1st.  No room there.  Jake Burger is also right handed in a roster full of right handers.  

Yoan Moncada is the White Sox starting 3B, and the best 3B on the roster offensively,  defensively,  singingly, and sexily.  Yoan is better than Jake Burger in every facet of the game except fairy tail story. Any argument otherwise is trash both figuratively and on any fact basis.

Leury plays every position except catcher. Same with Harrison. They both even play 3B defensively as good, or probably better than Burger does.  They can also contribute at 2nd, SS, and in the OF defensively.  Burger does none of those.

Danny Mendick has a gold glove nomination at 2B.  They were afraid to let Burger even play 2nd.  Mendick can also fill in at SS, and in the OF in a pinch. Again, not Burger. Heck Danny Mendick has put up about 100 higher OPS points or a 112 + number, vs Burgers 87.

Gavin Sheets has shown an ability to stand in the OF. Burger has not. Gavin Sheets can provide left handed power. Jake Burger cannot.  

When you make up a bench, you want to make sure that the guys you have on it do somethings that compliment the rest of your roster. If Jake Burger isn't hitting,  which he hasn't since the Slider train showed up, he brings no value to the bench.

When they all hit sub .150 then your points are meaningless ?

[Jack Parkman]

43 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The self proclaimed two "biggest Moncada fans" on Soxtalk hate on him relentlessly and couldn't be further from accurate on his ability or production last year.

Both Jack and Polar Bear believe they're fans of Moncada, but they're more-so like abusive fathers who claim they just want what is best for their boy while they whoop his ass for having fun and smiling despite making an out on the baseball field. 

Neither of you are big Moncada fans because you don't actually appreciate all the areas he does contribute and make absurd proclamations like "Jake Burger has been a better hitter this year than Moncada was last year."

Also, moving Moncada to second base would be a disaster of a decision and not one that a Moncada fan would recommend or want.

I just happen to think that hitting for power and the ability to get on base are the most important things for a MLB hitter. 

I really don't care if a hitter is hitting .240 if they're getting on base at a .350+ clip with 25+ bombs. Just make fewer outs. 

I couldn't give two shits about the BA column. OBP tells me more. 

 

Edited May 9, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[Polar Bear]

12 minutes ago, chw42 said:

No, that would be Rafael Devers with 22. 

And just about every good 3B in baseball had a similar amount of errors. Moncada had 16, Ramirez had 15, Donaldson had 13, Machado had 13, and even Arenado had 11. It's almost like errors aren't the best way to judge a player's defensive ability. 

Missed him.  Still way too much.  Moncada's bat and profile show him to be a very subpar traditional 3B, but an above average 2B (which is where he should be unless the power comes back)

We are building a world series contender here, not just putting a passable sub-par product on the field like the 2022 Reds ?

Southsider2k wants you to believe that Leury, Mendick and Sheets are great, but they wouldn't even be on the 40 man for real world series contenders......which is the problem.  Where would they be if they were on the Yankees, Blue Jays, Dodgers, Braves, Mets, etc. They wouldn't be on those team at all (Burger would)

[Texsox]

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

I just happen to think that hitting for power and the ability to get on base are the most important things for a MLB hitter. 

I really don't care if a hitter is hitting .240 if they're getting on base at a .350+ clip with 25+ bombs. 

I wish that was Burger.

[Jack Parkman]

7 minutes ago, Texsox said:

I wish that was Burger.

Burger has always been a low OBP guy, just like a lot of the rest of this team. 

Batting average is only important for guys that don't walk, like TA.

If TA suddenly started hitting .280 instead of .310+ he'd be a fringe guy to me. 

Is a hit worth more than a walk? sure, because you can only score on a walk if the bases are loaded. Hit a lot of 2B and HR and it makes up for it. 

wOBA is a nice stat. Better than OBP tbh. 

The Sox are 25th in baseball in wOBA. 

Edited May 9, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[southsider2k5]

12 minutes ago, Polar Bear said:

When they all hit sub .150 then your points are meaningless ?

Yes, because Jake's right handed .230 with no defensive help at all is of a big value right now.

[southsider2k5]

7 minutes ago, Polar Bear said:

Missed him.  Still way too much.  Moncada's bat and profile show him to be a very subpar traditional 3B, but an above average 2B (which is where he should be unless the power comes back)

We are building a world series contender here, not just putting a passable sub-par product on the field like the 2022 Reds ?

Southsider2k wants you to believe that Leury, Mendick and Sheets are great, but they wouldn't even be on the 40 man for real world series contenders......which is the problem.  Where would they be if they were on the Yankees, Blue Jays, Dodgers, Braves, Mets, etc. They wouldn't be on those team at all (Burger would)

Moncada's stats tell a different story.  He has the 8th highest fWAR of all 3B since 2020, despite not playing in 2022 at all.  If you include 2019 he is 6th.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

9 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Burger has always been a low OBP guy, just like a lot of the rest of this team. 

Batting average is only important for guys that don't walk, like TA.

If TA suddenly started hitting .280 instead of .310+ he'd be a fringe guy to me. 

Is a hit worth more than a walk? sure, because you can only score on a walk if the bases are loaded. Hit a lot of 2B and HR and it makes up for it. 

wOBA is a nice stat. Better than OBP tbh. 

The Sox are 25th in baseball in wOBA. 

And they're 10th in xWOBA.

[southsider2k5]

11 minutes ago, Polar Bear said:

Missed him.  Still way too much.  Moncada's bat and profile show him to be a very subpar traditional 3B, but an above average 2B (which is where he should be unless the power comes back)

We are building a world series contender here, not just putting a passable sub-par product on the field like the 2022 Reds ?

Southsider2k wants you to believe that Leury, Mendick and Sheets are great, but they wouldn't even be on the 40 man for real world series contenders......which is the problem.  Where would they be if they were on the Yankees, Blue Jays, Dodgers, Braves, Mets, etc. They wouldn't be on those team at all (Burger would)

The irony of course even when multiple people show you your own quote, you claim you didn't say it, yet two seconds later, here you are making up lies.

Get out of your feelings.

[Jack Parkman]

8 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

And they're 10th in xWOBA.

xwOBA doesn't account for the 2022 baseballs, so it means nothing. 

There are barrels going for outs this year. 

When there's enough of a sample size and they're only comparing it against 2022 batted balls, I'll listen. 

Edited May 9, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[Polar Bear]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

Moncada's stats tell a different story.  He has the 8th highest fWAR of all 3B since 2020, despite not playing in 2022 at all.  If you include 2019 he is 6th.

A traditional 3B hits more than 14 HRs and 60 RBIs.....oh wait thats a traditional 2B 

[Jack Parkman]

1 minute ago, Polar Bear said:

A traditional 3B hits more than 14 HRs and 60 RBIs.....oh wait thats a traditional 2B 

You're weakening infield defense at two positions though. 

The value Moncada gives as a defender at 3B makes up for it. 

Burger is a low OBP hack that only hits for power against LHP anyway. 

[southsider2k5]

4 minutes ago, Polar Bear said:

A traditional 3B hits more than 14 HRs and 60 RBIs.....oh wait thats a traditional 2B 

That's it?   Is your argument to ignore literally everything other than one season's worth of HR and RBI?  For a guy who has 3 homers and 10 RBI in 119 PAs at the major league level?  For the record, expand that sample size out to 500 ABs for season, and you get 15 homers and 50 RBI.

But yes, let me hear more about those 1950s stats being the only one that matters.. 

[Jack Parkman]

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

That's it?   Is your argument to ignore literally everything other than one season's worth of HR and RBI?  For a guy who has 3 homers and 10 RBI in 119 PAs at the major league level?  For the record, expand that sample size out to 500 ABs for season, and you get 15 homers and 50 RBI.

But yes, let me hear more about those 1950s stats being the only one that matters.. 

Like I said, the whole thing with Moncada is that people expected a guy capable of putting up 7+win seasons and they got 4-5 wins. 

[Polar Bear]

2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

You're weakening infield defense at two positions though. 

The value Moncada gives as a defender at 3B makes up for it. 

Burger is a low OBP hack that only hits for power against LHP anyway. 

I said his bat and profile meaning what he is doing at the plate not in the field.  Moncada's bat to this point is a 2B.  Now he does have the potential to regain that power if he can get over whatever has been keeping the down 

[Polar Bear]

5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

That's it?   Is your argument to ignore literally everything other than one season's worth of HR and RBI? 

Now I understand what I am up against. 

1 seasons worth?  2020 was insanely worse than 2021 

[Texsox]

18 minutes ago, Polar Bear said:

Missed him.  Still way too much.  Moncada's bat and profile show him to be a very subpar traditional 3B, but an above average 2B (which is where he should be unless the power comes back)

We are building a world series contender here, not just putting a passable sub-par product on the field like the 2022 Reds ?

Southsider2k wants you to believe that Leury, Mendick and Sheets are great, but they wouldn't even be on the 40 man for real world series contenders......which is the problem.  Where would they be if they were on the Yankees, Blue Jays, Dodgers, Braves, Mets, etc. They wouldn't be on those team at all (Burger would)

You realize Burger would take a 3rd baseman spot. None of those other guys would take a 3rd base spot, so what are you trying to prove? That the Yankees need a guy at 3rd but not at 2nd? 

Oswaldo Cabrera or Leury Garcia and you're thinking the Yankees would rather have  Oswaldo than a MLB ready player?

[Spumoni]

9 minutes ago, Polar Bear said:

A traditional 3B hits more than 14 HRs and 60 RBIs.....oh wait thats a traditional 2B 

Jake Burger, who prior to being sent down was faltering badly, has per baseball reference a projected total of... 14 HR and 45 RBIs over 162 games.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

7 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

xwOBA doesn't account for the 2022 baseballs, so it means nothing. 

There are barrels going for outs this year. 

When there's enough of a sample size and they're only comparing it against 2022 batted balls, I'll listen. 

Of course it counts, do you think the distribution isn't relatively even? Do you think the Sox are the only team effected by the balls? 

Here are two graphs to show exactly that:

One shows the variance between wOBA and xwOBA - most samples are sitting around -.25-.35 - the Sox are at -.55.

The other shows the the two fields comparatively and the Sox are the outliers in both chart. Unless you have some research showing they would be more effected than any other team.