How bad can you be on defense and still make the postseason?

[caulfield12]

https://theathletic.com/447974/2018/07/27/how-bad-can-you-be-on-defense-and-still-make-the-postseason/

 

 

Adjusting the bar a little bit, there have been 27 teams to finish a season with a total of minus-60 Defensive Runs Saved or worse. Three made the postseason.

 

[Chimpton]

6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

https://theathletic.com/447974/2018/07/27/how-bad-can-you-be-on-defense-and-still-make-the-postseason/

 

How bad can you be on defense and still make the postseason?

By Mark Simon, Sports Info Solutions

 

"The 2018 season has shown us that both of these things can be true:

A) The Phillies are an awful defensive team. They’re the worst in the majors with minus-85 Defensive Runs Saved. They have a negative value at every defensive position and they’re one of only four teams to have shifts cost them runs rather than save runs.

B) The Phillies are a first-place team with a better than 50-50 chance to make the postseason, according to Fangraphs.

That said, the Phillies are an anomaly. We went through 15 seasons of data in an effort to learn how bad you could be on defense and still make the postseason. And we learned a few other things along the way too.

The only playoff team from 2003 to 2017 to finish with a worse Defensive Runs Saved total than what Phillies currently have was the 2005 Yankees, whose defense cost them 120 runs.

The Yankees made it by outperforming their Pythagorean expected win total by five. They also had a lineup that ranked second in the AL in the major offensive categories (home runs, OPS and runs) and the best closer in the world in Mariano Rivera.

They too are an anomaly. The 11 other teams to finish minus-80 or worse finished with an average record of 65-97.

Adjusting the bar a little bit, there have been 27 teams to finish a season with a total of minus-60 Defensive Runs Saved or worse. Three made the postseason.

In other words, history shows us that it is possible for a team as bad as the Phillies to make the postseason. It just doesn’t quite feel like anything close to a 50-50 shot."

Yes but did the Phillies also have a dodgy batting line up who can't hit RHP, no starting depth a crumbling pen and a senile manager?

[caulfield12]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1591320-how-important-is-team-defense-in-winning-world-series-championships

This one has pretty good information in general...but covers more of the previous decade in MLB.

By the way, that previous 2018 Phillies' team from the OP finished 80-82 and in third place, missing the postseason.

Edited May 10, 2022 by caulfield12

[JoshPR]

This is gonna be an unpopular post and I'll get scalded here but is anyone else getting tired of Tim Anderson's bullshit? Between the bad approach and shit defense maybe it's time to get serious and stop trying to be such a hot dog. Maybe he needs to stop running his mouth and put up or shut up. Sorry but it starts with him. Last night's game is unacceptable for this team. Josh freaking Naylor with 8 RBIs. The pitchers can't k everybody. They need to be able to put the ball in play. I know Dallas ain't the greatest but it might be part of the problem. Trying to be too fine and becoming wild. This has to be addressed. Totally embarrassing

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, Chimpton said:

Yes but did the Phillies also have a dodgy batting line up who can't hit RHP, no starting depth a crumbling pen and a senile manager?

They didn't have an eight game losing streak.  Only the 83-79 Cardinals of TLR (two eight game streaks) and 1953 Yankees (lost 9 consecutive in early July) still managed to win the World Series.

[caulfield12]

11 minutes ago, JoshPR said:

This is gonna be an unpopular post and I'll get scalded here but is anyone else getting tired of Tim Anderson's bullshit? Between the bad approach and shit defense maybe it's time to get serious and stop trying to be such a hot dog. Maybe he needs to stop running his mouth and put up or shut up. Sorry but it starts with him. Last night's game is unacceptable for this team. Josh freaking Naylor with 8 RBIs. The pitchers can't k everybody. They need to be able to put the ball in play. I know Dallas ain't the greatest but it might be part of the problem. Trying to be too fine and becoming wild. This has to be addressed. Totally embarrassing

That would take an intervention of sorts.

Even if we put our best defensive lineup out there....

Pollock in LF, Robert, Engel in RF, Moncada, Anderson, god knows who at second, god knows who at 1B and Reese McGuire at C....we still have no way to play Vaughn/Abreu/Grandal at DH simultaneously.

Just not sure how you can get considerable defensive improvement with our current roster unless you play Adam Engel every day in right.  And then we still have a conundrum with 2B offensively and defensively, and Abreu's defensive slump/malaise at 1B.

How in God's name is this team going to suddenly improve defensively in season with this particular coaching staff and manager?

Moving Anderson to second in the middle of the year will never work.  I guess you can promote Yolbert Sanchez to play second, but that's going to put so much pressure on the offense to carry the bottom of the lineup.  Not that Harrison is doing much to help the team, either.

Edited May 10, 2022 by caulfield12

[The Mighty Mite]

1 hour ago, JoshPR said:

This is gonna be an unpopular post and I'll get scalded here but is anyone else getting tired of Tim Anderson's bullshit? Between the bad approach and shit defense maybe it's time to get serious and stop trying to be such a hot dog. Maybe he needs to stop running his mouth and put up or shut up. Sorry but it starts with him. Last night's game is unacceptable for this team. Josh freaking Naylor with 8 RBIs. The pitchers can't k everybody. They need to be able to put the ball in play. I know Dallas ain't the greatest but it might be part of the problem. Trying to be too fine and becoming wild. This has to be addressed. Totally embarrassing

I'm also tired of TA's act. Remember a few years ago when the Sox needed a Centerfielder and TA said he wouldn't mind giving it a try, maybe it's time. You can move Robert to RF which might lengthen his career. Can Yolbert Sanchez play shortstop because this kid is probably ready, if not the Sox should try to get Taylor Walls from the Rays.

[The Mighty Mite]

8 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

I'm also tired of TA's act. Remember a few years ago when the Sox needed a Centerfielder and TA said he wouldn't mind giving it a try, maybe it's time. You can move Robert to RF which might lengthen his career or put TA in LF and DH Eloy when he returns, the trouble is that the Sox have too many DH candidates.  Can Yolbert Sanchez play shortstop because this kid is probably ready, if not the Sox should try to get Taylor Walls from the Rays.

 

[A-Train to 35th]

2 hours ago, JoshPR said:

This is gonna be an unpopular post and I'll get scalded here but is anyone else getting tired of Tim Anderson's bullshit? Between the bad approach and shit defense maybe it's time to get serious and stop trying to be such a hot dog. Maybe he needs to stop running his mouth and put up or shut up. Sorry but it starts with him. Last night's game is unacceptable for this team. Josh freaking Naylor with 8 RBIs. The pitchers can't k everybody. They need to be able to put the ball in play. I know Dallas ain't the greatest but it might be part of the problem. Trying to be too fine and becoming wild. This has to be addressed. Totally embarrassing

Yes, I agree I'm  tired of Tim Anderson and Yoan's unfocused approach on routine ground balls.

Edited May 10, 2022 by A-Train to 35th
sp

[JoshPR]

23 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

I'm also tired of TA's act. Remember a few years ago when the Sox needed a Centerfielder and TA said he wouldn't mind giving it a try, maybe it's time. You can move Robert to RF which might lengthen his career. Can Yolbert Sanchez play shortstop because this kid is probably ready, if not the Sox should try to get Taylor Walls from the Rays.

I don't think TA would be moving. I think The Sox see themselves set in the OF soon if Colas and Cespedes work out

[A-Train to 35th]

That game was enough for me, I'll go to the remaining games in my 20 game package but I'll be sitting on the couch with the wife watching Netflix for the unforeseeable future.  I can't watch this shit.  Glad I went to bed after the 9th is all I have to say.

Edited May 10, 2022 by A-Train to 35th
add

[A-Train to 35th]

2 minutes ago, JoshPR said:

I don't think TA would be moving. I think The Sox see themselves set in the OF soon if Colas and Cespedes work out

Thats the problem, the club is relying on players who are in the minors, instead of filling the holes with players that can actually catch and throw a baseball.

[JoshPR]

10 minutes ago, A-Train to 35th said:

Thats the problem, the club is relying on players who are in the minors, instead of filling the holes with players that can actually catch and throw a baseball.

True. Or playing plooding 1stbasemen allover the field

[ptatc]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Mite said:

I'm also tired of TA's act. Remember a few years ago when the Sox needed a Centerfielder and TA said he wouldn't mind giving it a try, maybe it's time. You can move Robert to RF which might lengthen his career. Can Yolbert Sanchez play shortstop because this kid is probably ready, if not the Sox should try to get Taylor Walls from the Rays.

Remember the year Alexei Ramirez was uncharacteristically bad and we found out the next year he was going through a nasty divorce?

You have to wonder if something like that is happening to TA. He's always been somewhat lackadaisical but not this bad.

[CentralChamps21]

This team is full of DHs, and we're surprised that they're bad defensively?

On top of that, Soxtalk wanted to put Burger at 2B because Harrison/Leury are a hole in the lineup.

Pollock/Robert/Engel need to be the starting outfield every day they're available. Zero exceptions.

Moncada was in his first game back last night so I'm not going to be too hard on him but TA and Abreu have sucked on the field this year and there's no excuse for them.

[reiks12]

14 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Remember the year Alexei Ramirez was uncharacteristically bad and we found out the next year he was going through a nasty divorce?

You have to wonder if something like that is happening to TA. He's always been somewhat lackadaisical but not this bad.

Good point, there is something very off about TA this season. Between the awful defense and flipping off fans, you have to wonder what in the world is going on

[Jerry McNertney]

Anderson's on a pace to commit 52 errors this season. Hmm.

[Spumoni]

13 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

Good point, there is something very off about TA this season. Between the awful defense and flipping off fans, you have to wonder what in the world is going on

Why is it just on one side of the ball then? He just had one of the best Aprils in his career at the plate.

Edited May 10, 2022 by Spumoni

[JoshPR]

I really think for this team to win its gonna have to be like the end of 04. Traded Carlos Lee and let mags walk. The Sox have some pieces. But not all of them are the correct ones. So either Abreu says Adios and Eloy becomes full time DH, or eloy gets traded and you fill the holes correctly. Do I trust Hahn to do so. Not really. Vaughn has to be at first full time next year. Eloy is the DH he likes it or not. I'm ok with Moncada at 3rd. Just wish he would get over the hump Nd maybe focus on stretching and flexibility to avoid injury. Let's face it other than Robert the Sox are weak up the middle. 

[A-Train to 35th]

34 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said:

This team is full of DHs, and we're surprised that they're bad defensively?

On top of that, Soxtalk wanted to put Burger at 2B because Harrison/Leury are a hole in the lineup.

Pollock/Robert/Engel need to be the starting outfield every day they're available. Zero exceptions.

Moncada was in his first game back last night so I'm not going to be too hard on him but TA and Abreu have sucked on the field this year and there's no excuse for them.

Couldn't agree more on your statement "Pollock/Robert/Engel need to be the starting outfield every day they're available. Zero exceptions."

 

[reiks12]

17 minutes ago, Spumoni said:

Why is it just on one side of the ball then? He just had one of the best Aprils in his career at the plate.

Well it could be because on defense you are just standing out there alone for a whole half inning. Lots of ruminating can happen. On offense hes swinging 0-0.

[A-Train to 35th]

9 minutes ago, JoshPR said:

I really think for this team to win its gonna have to be like the end of 04. Traded Carlos Lee and let mags walk. The Sox have some pieces. But not all of them are the correct ones. So either Abreu says Adios and Eloy becomes full time DH, or eloy gets traded and you fill the holes correctly. Do I trust Hahn to do so. Not really. Vaughn has to be at first full time next year. Eloy is the DH he likes it or not. I'm ok with Moncada at 3rd. Just wish he would get over the hump Nd maybe focus on stretching and flexibility to avoid injury. Let's face it other than Robert the Sox are weak up the middle. 

Other than Robert and Engel (and he's not starting?) the Sox have no MLB players that can play defense consistently and with focus.

[GREEDY]

Did Tim figure it out defensively the last few years or did he just have a good run of sample size during a swing and miss era?

Defensive metrics have always liked him.  My eye test has always rated him much lower. 

It is a golden era for short stops, and the OF position feels shallow while the league cycles out of the low OBP lefties that were neutralized by the shift, it would be a shame if a solid 250 game stretch from TA deeked us from having a plus defensive left fielder and signing one of the many available star SS.

[FoxForce2]

1 hour ago, A-Train to 35th said:

Thats the problem, the club is relying on players who are in the minors, instead of filling the holes with players that can actually catch and throw a baseball.

Do we even know what Colas and Cespedes look like in the field? The reports are that they both have plus arms, at least in terms of strength, but what about the rest? Cespedes' brother had a big-time arm, but was a run-of-mill fielder otherwise.

[Bob Sacamano]

Can Yolbert play SS?