Menechino is movable

[brijames1957]

Something has to be done to shake this team up. It's not just the total lack of hitting it's the lack of any change whatsoever in their approach to hitting. No one is even attempting to work the count, or shorten their swing, or maybe try hitting the opposite way. It's just doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Which I do believe is the definition of insanity. 

The team is at or near the bottom of every offensive statistic. 5 of the 9 starters today are hitting sub .200. The only reason your not 10 or more games out of first is because you are in the worst division in baseball. 

[Taz]

Easier said than done but I agree with the points you put forward. We just seem too timid right now at the plate and for the most part the guys we have are not really known for that imo. You could say our better players are getting older, but working the count and getting the ball in the air has nothing to do with age, its your approach to the plate. Still quite early in the season of course to make adjustments, but something needs to change.

[caulfield12]

When you think about it realistically, what players under than Grandal and Abreu are dramatically under-performing, which could just as easily be hitting the age ceiling?

Pollock has had the dreaded NL to AL transition, injury/parental leave.   Counting on him to put up another 3 fWAR while moving from LF to RF was pretty much a disaster waiting to happen.  Now in LF again, we shall see what he has left.

Jimenez and Moncada mostly hurt.

Vaughn has made big/positive strides forward, as has Luis Robert.  TA7, same (defense, not so much).

Sheets was always going to be a case of a Tier B prospect finding success but being challenged by a league making adjustments back.  Most knowledgeable Sox fans weren't realistically expecting him to replicate his 2021 performance.

Then you have the general decline by 60-75 OPS points across the board or whatever that number now is...maybe down 50 OPS on average as the weather has improved?

Burger held his own, more or less but was generally over matched...but that's a bit unfair considering where he came from 2-3 years ago.   Most of us thought he would never see a big league diamond, EVER.  He performed much better than some of the veterans, let's leave it at that.

Harrison and Leury...they have always been "it is what it is" kind of a situation with both those guys.

 

Fwiw, Zack Collins has come back down to earth after a hot start...so there's really only Luis Gonzalez (funny how much ink Adolfo got in retrospect) to account for in SF.   Madrigal didn't exactly light up the Northside before his predictable injury. 

 

They can make cosmetic changes just to make a change, but anything short of TLR or Hahn going isn't going to change the trajectory of this team.

[Chick Mercedes]

my question is, if the Sox finish thre season like this, should I be open not only to firing everybody, but trading anybody but Cease and Robert? At that point, this team needs a redo

[caulfield12]

2 minutes ago, Chick Mercedes said:

my question is, if the Sox finish thre season like this, should I be open not only to firing everybody, but trading anybody but Cease and Robert? At that point, this team needs a redo

Why would you trade Vaughn and Kopech?

Who has a lot of value other teams would want? 

TA7, Giolito...maybe Lynn if he comes back healthy, Moncada far away from peak value and would only be a target for big payroll teams/playoff contenders. Jimenez we would have a hard time just dumping his remaining contract. Same with most of the remaining players other than Graveman.

Edited May 16, 2022 by caulfield12

[foxaparicio]

Yes...get rid of him...nobody staying balanced at the plate...looking fastball, adjusting off of that...watch the ball hit the bat...hit it where it is pitched...just meet the ball..little stuff like that..

[Chick Mercedes]

7 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Why would you trade Vaughn and Kopech?

No specific reason. Depends on the return, but I should probably be very open to trading anyone other than the 2 names mentioned, because as Dr Phil likes to say..How's that working out for ya (us)? I'll stop dropping expressions tonight. Maybe one more.

 

The Sox are overrated man.  So it's time to make changes after they prove it. You're not trading everybody. Your open to trading just about anybody

Edited May 16, 2022 by Chick Mercedes

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, foxaparicio said:

Yes...get rid of him...nobody staying balanced at the plate...looking fastball, adjusting off of that...watch the ball hit the bat...hit it where it is pitched...just meet the ball..little stuff like that..

If only there was a way to merge the Cuban/Latin American flair and exciting style of play with the Japanese/Korean attention to discipline, fundamentals, execution and team-oriented play.

Then you would have close to the perfect position players.

[Unknown]

That Jimenez contract looks absolutely terrible. Another reason to fire Hahn. How do you give him that before he even performed? 

[Jerksticks]

Eh.  Abreu needs to “volunteer” to bat near the bottom until he heats up.  
 

IMO that would really help.  Not sure canning somebody just to shake things up is very honorable.  I understand your frustration as a fan though. 

[Dick Allen]

It's not just the hitting. This team loses focus with all phases. That's on the HOF baseball person. But that obvious move will never happen unfortunately. 

 

Even the Big Hurt said they were sleepwalking through Sunday's game. How do you sleepwalk against the Yankees.

Edited May 16, 2022 by Dick Allen

[Mokena94]

After the game yesterday, at the LaRussa press conference, he said:  “At times we do a little more chasing, especially before two strikes when the count is in our favor. We can improve on that. The days we hit good are when we’re (showing discipline).”

Then why don't they improve upon that? That would seem to be a philosophy that if you believe in it, would be hammered across say after day. If players choose to ignore it, then they need to sit. This season, they appear to take more "good" pitches, and swing at more "bad" pitches than any other team that I have watched. Right now, their plate discipline is awful

Something has to change, but I don't think firing the hitting coach will do much. The best hitting coach could not do much with the bottom 5 LaRussa put out in that crap order yesterday. But, having a true philosophy and following it would sure be worth a shot at this stage.

 

 

 

 

[zisk]

Although the Sox stink on offence any way you look at it. Why does Larussa insist on benching any player who has a decent game?

Moncada riding the pines after Saturday nights homer is just the latest example. TLR has probably lowered our runs output 10%

all by himself by doing this. And every time he sits a hot bat, he always replaces him with Nate Harrison.

God I miss Jim Fregosi.

[southsider2k5]

Tony LaRussa is on the one who can needs to be fired.  Even if you want to place all of the blame for this offense so far on the hitting coach, he doesn't get the blame for the defense, or for the bullpen.  He also doesn't get the responsibility for the lack of health of this team.  But when you are missing major pieces of the team , plus benching starters on a regular basis, this shouldn't be that much of a surprise that they don't hit consistently.

Honestly, maybe it took a while, but this team looks exactly how I was afraid it would look last year when Tony took over.  Maybe it took a while for him to lose them, but they look lost.  I have never seen guys like Tim Anderson and Jose Abreu look less sharp and excited about the game.

[Snopek]

Fun fact of the day: Sox cast off Luis Gonzalez, now with SF, would be leading the Sox in Avg, RBI, OBP, OPS (aside from Yoan and his 5 games played) and tied for 3rd in BB.

[Tnetennba]

13 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Tony LaRussa is on the one who can needs to be fired.  Even if you want to place all of the blame for this offense so far on the hitting coach, he doesn't get the blame for the defense, or for the bullpen.  He also doesn't get the responsibility for the lack of health of this team.  But when you are missing major pieces of the team , plus benching starters on a regular basis, this shouldn't be that much of a surprise that they don't hit consistently.

Honestly, maybe it took a while, but this team looks exactly how I was afraid it would look last year when Tony took over.  Maybe it took a while for him to lose them, but they look lost.  I have never seen guys like Tim Anderson and Jose Abreu look less sharp and excited about the game.

The second paragraph is pretty much what I feared as well.  I also wonder if he started lose the team mid season last year too.  Whenever it was, they do look lost and unprepared on a daily basis.  I would have been lambasted last year by some for saying it, but in the end TLR will be the reason this team doesn’t win. There will be other factors but I still believe a good manager has these guys ready to play every day and puts them in better position to win games.  The holes on the roster combined with the lack of depth is a major contributor in their shortcomings, but ultimately I fear  the decision to force a washed up has-been upon this team will be their undoing. 

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, Tnetennba said:

The second paragraph is pretty much what I feared as well.  I also wonder if he started lose the team mid season last year too.  Whenever it was, they do look lost and unprepared on a daily basis.  I would have been lambasted last year by some for saying it, but in the end TLR will be the reason this team doesn’t win. There will be other factors but I still believe a good manager has these guys ready to play every day and puts them in better position to win games.  The holes on the roster combined with the lack of depth is a major contributor in their shortcomings, but ultimately I fear  the decision to force a washed up has-been upon this team will be their undoing. 

Look there is no doubt there are holes on the roster you could drive a truck through.  But the players on this roster are very largely underproducing their abilities in many different ways.  And it isn't just the offense.  The defense has been WAY scarier to me than the offense.  Even past a few guys playing out of position, guys like Tim Anderson and Jose Abreu have been TERRIBLE defensively.  Like I have never seen them look so bad in their entire White Sox careers defensively.  This bullpen is supposed to be among the best in baseball, but there isn't a single guy out there who has pitched up to their potential.

[bmags]

30 minutes ago, Snopek said:

Fun fact of the day: Sox cast off Luis Gonzalez, now with SF, would be leading the Sox in Avg, RBI, OBP, OPS (aside from Yoan and his 5 games played) and tied for 3rd in BB.

This won't last, but the giants are a team with the best player development in baseball and the sox are not in the top ten (at the very least). 

[bmags]

The thing about the hitting coach that always comes back is someone will say hitting coaches don't really matter, but if that's the case there's no real reason not to fire them either so you may as well give it a shot.

[GREEDY]

3 hours ago, Unknown said:

That Jimenez contract looks absolutely terrible. Another reason to fire Hahn. How do you give him that before he even performed? 

Everyone celebrated Hahn giving guys 100% of their likely arb numbers in exchange for one more year of prime control at a somewhat reasonable number.

Hahn isn't some wizard at pulling these deals off, there is a reason they aren't the standard.

What Hahn really did was get a discount on one prime year because his future was already tied to these players anyways.  If Moncada, Robert and Eloy fail, Hahn won't be around to have to worry about it. 

[southsider2k5]

 

[reiks12]

1 hour ago, Snopek said:

Fun fact of the day: Sox cast off Luis Gonzalez, now with SF, would be leading the Sox in Avg, RBI, OBP, OPS (aside from Yoan and his 5 games played) and tied for 3rd in BB.

depressing

[Jack Parkman]

 

 

Edited May 16, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[Greg Hibbard]

4 hours ago, Unknown said:

That Jimenez contract looks absolutely terrible. Another reason to fire Hahn. How do you give him that before he even performed? 

I get being frustrated by the injuries, but im not going to write him off a player with only 1000 mlb PAs. See Yoan Moncada’s first 1000 PAs….

[southsider2k5]

5 hours ago, Unknown said:

That Jimenez contract looks absolutely terrible. Another reason to fire Hahn. How do you give him that before he even performed? 

That's how early contracts work.  Some money gets moved up front on the bet that they will more than save on the deal in the long term.

You regretting the Tim Anderson or Chris Sale deals?  Same thing.