Menechino is movable

[pcq]

On to KC where we belong!! The two Centrals belong in a 4A league.

[Dick Allen]

2 hours ago, Snopek said:

Fun fact of the day: Sox cast off Luis Gonzalez, now with SF, would be leading the Sox in Avg, RBI, OBP, OPS (aside from Yoan and his 5 games played) and tied for 3rd in BB.

Cmon man. He took Pujols deep yesterday.  If LaRussa was his manager, he would beg the Cardinals throw at him his next AB.

[southsider2k5]

 

[Tnetennba]

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Look there is no doubt there are holes on the roster you could drive a truck through.  But the players on this roster are very largely underproducing their abilities in many different ways.  And it isn't just the offense.  The defense has been WAY scarier to me than the offense.  Even past a few guys playing out of position, guys like Tim Anderson and Jose Abreu have been TERRIBLE defensively.  Like I have never seen them look so bad in their entire White Sox careers defensively.  This bullpen is supposed to be among the best in baseball, but there isn't a single guy out there who has pitched up to their potential.

When almost everyone team wide is underperforming, its probably a sign something is up behind the scenes.  Roster construction doesn't make everyone else forget how to play baseball.

[Quin]

3 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

When almost everyone team wide is underperforming, its probably a sign something is up behind the scenes.  Roster construction doesn't make everyone else forget how to play baseball.

What's more likely:

1. Everyone in baseball assessed the White Sox wrong
2. TLR is blowing it as manager

[Tnetennba]

1 minute ago, Quin said:

What's more likely:

1. Everyone in baseball assessed the White Sox wrong
2. TLR is blowing it as manager

Assessing a few guys wrong, sure, but a whole team?  Not very likely.

[ScootsMcGoots]

Yes, the hitting is frustrating, as well as the Sox seemingly not yet "in league" with the likes of the Yankees, Dodgers, etc. But, it's a loong season. Let's see how the rest of this plays out. I for one would love them to have a much better 2nd half than 1st half...the opposite of last year.

Hopefully when we are at full strength when Lynn and Eloy return (until the next injury...) that will give us the boost we need.

In the next 13 games, we have 5 in a row against KC, 3 against Boston in Chicago who we just swept, and 2 against the Cubs at home who we also just swept. Anything can happen in this game, and yes there is another 3 against the Yankees in New York during that stretch, but we might be looking at a much better record at the end of May than what they have right now.

[Quin]

8 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Assessing a few guys wrong, sure, but a whole team?  Not very likely.

Menechino: Preaches patience, OBP, generally was seen to have a good philosophy for the modern game until this year. Produced results.

TLR: Offensive philosophy relied on steroids or having Albert Pujols.

[SCCWS]

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Tony LaRussa is on the one who can needs to be fired.  Even if you want to place all of the blame for this offense so far on the hitting coach, he doesn't get the blame for the defense, or for the bullpen.  He also doesn't get the responsibility for the lack of health of this team.  But when you are missing major pieces of the team , plus benching starters on a regular basis, this shouldn't be that much of a surprise that they don't hit consistently.

Honestly, maybe it took a while, but this team looks exactly how I was afraid it would look last year when Tony took over.  Maybe it took a while for him to lose them, but they look lost.  I have never seen guys like Tim Anderson and Jose Abreu look less sharp and excited about the game.

In fairness, Tim Anderson is in top 5 in AL batting average.  So I would say he looks very sharp in the batting box also considering w his .335 average he has struck out very few times. Now he may not be excited and he may not be sharp in the field, But in the batters box he is very sharp  so far. 

[southsider2k5]

10 minutes ago, SCCWS said:

In fairness, Tim Anderson is in top 5 in AL batting average.  So I would say he looks very sharp in the batting box also considering w his .335 average he has struck out very few times. Now he may not be excited and he may not be sharp in the field, But in the batters box he is very sharp  so far. 

Tim Anderson is having his career worst year in the field.  I am OK with calling him not sharp.

[Jack Parkman]

30 minutes ago, Quin said:

What's more likely:

1. Everyone in baseball assessed the White Sox wrong
2. TLR is blowing it as manager

I think both are true. 

[Quin]

5 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I think both are true. 

If that were the case, #2 would likely be the cause of #1, but I'm not gonna get sucked into a Parkman doom spiral about why this team was actually doomed from the start because Eloy Jimenez once struck out 3 times in a game in 2019.

[Snopek]

2 hours ago, bmags said:

This won't last, but the giants are a team with the best player development in baseball and the sox are not in the top ten (at the very least). 

Oh yeah, wasn’t meant to be an endorsement of Gonzalez. More so the current sad state of the Sox with a sprinkle of salt in the wound.

[mmmmmbeeer]

5 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

How do you sleepwalk against the Yankees.

Because their manager let them know he was perfectly fine taking a loss the moment he posted the lineup card.  

[The Kids Can Play]

6 hours ago, Unknown said:

That Jimenez contract looks absolutely terrible. Another reason to fire Hahn. How do you give him that before he even performed? 

I totally disagree with you on that initial contract. Eloy crushed it in the minors both at Birmingham and Charlotte and thus was rewarded that type of contract. Keep in mind it was only 6 yrs/43 million. The contract is escalating over the 6 years. If Eloy comes back this year and finishes the year strong, the 7.3 million this year will be well worth it. Plus if Eloy stays healthy next year and has a great year, the Sox paying him 10.3 million next year will also be worth it and he'll only be 26 yrs old.

Btw, Hahn pulled that same logic with Luis Robert. Hahn signed Robert prior to 2020 spring training after Robert tore up the Sox minors, where he was named 2019 Minor League player of the year. Robert signed a 6 yr/50 million contract right from the minors like Eloy. I don't think anyone here would say that Robert's contract was a terrible.

Most importantly, let's keep things in perspective, one of the initial rebuild moves was the Jose Quintana trade for Cease and Eloy. I think its quite obvious we are winning that trade by a landslide! 

[The Kids Can Play]

Agreed Menechino sucks. However before you fire him, I think the first person that needs to be fired is LaRussa. He is a huge reason the team is struggling! It's painfully obvious this demented manager has failed miserably in bringing to the team that needed energy, fire, fundamentals and motivation. TLR's daily managing mistakes, such as horrible lineups and when to pull or insert a pitcher, is so glaring and why the team needs to get rid of him.

It's a pitiful shame to the players and fans that senile Reinsdorf doesn't see that and can't admit he made a horrendous mistake. 

[Green Line]

Firing the hitting coach would be a performative move that won’t change anything.  I called for it weeks ago.

[southsider2k5]

2 hours ago, Quin said:

What's more likely:

1. Everyone in baseball assessed the White Sox wrong
2. TLR is blowing it as manager

Yeah, this is what systemic failure looks like.

[GREEDY]

1 hour ago, The Kids Can Play said:

If Eloy comes back this year and finishes the year strong, the 7.3 million this year will be well worth it. 

 

You know the Sox had control of Eloy for all of these years except for 2026 right? 

Just eyeballing it but I bet he would have been much less than 7.3 had Hahn just let the pre-arb system play out.  Not saying the deal can't still work out in the Sox' favor, but to date, it definitely has not.

[southsider2k5]

49 minutes ago, GREEDY said:

You know the Sox had control of Eloy for all of these years except for 2026 right? 

Just eyeballing it but I bet he would have been much less than 7.3 had Hahn just let the pre-arb system play out.  Not saying the deal can't still work out in the Sox' favor, but to date, it definitely has not.

Would you have not made the same bets on Chris Sale and Tim Anderson?  You make these bets knowing full well that they might not pay off, but because they made these types of deals with Sale and Adam Eaton, the rebuild was pushed forward by years.  If we hadn't made this deal with Tim Anderson, he would have been a $20ish million player this year (he is $9.5 this year) and pending free agency after this season.  Instead he is controlled for the next two years at $12.5 and 14 million.

So yes, you can pick out the deals that didn't work, but these three years are probably going to save the White Sox something like $50 or $60 million on Tim Anderson alone.

[bighurt574]

51 minutes ago, GREEDY said:

You know the Sox had control of Eloy for all of these years except for 2026 right? 

Just eyeballing it but I bet he would have been much less than 7.3 had Hahn just let the pre-arb system play out.  Not saying the deal can't still work out in the Sox' favor, but to date, it definitely has not.

 

Some hindsight there.  It was still a good deal for the Sox at the time, even if they only got 1 year of extra control.  

There's always a risk somebody doesn't pan out but it's still not a ton of $$$ in the big picture.  I'll take the risk to lock up top prospects just about every time.  These are generally very club-friendly deals.  

[zisk]

FM might be the 1st fall guy, but nothing will change with out a change at the top.

[bighurt574]

It's not Menechino's fault but I'm not opposed to shaking things up.  Wish it would start at the top though....

[Chick Mercedes]

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Yeah, this is what systemic failure looks like.

The Sox will come around to a certain extent. But to a certain extent, the FO was very overconfident in the offseason. Arguably the signs were there for them not to be.

[joejoesox]

it looks like they have no idea about their own scouting reports, they have zero clue on how other pitchers are attacking them