5/18 Sox @ Royals | 7:10PM CT

[flavum]

1 minute ago, ptatc said:

They also weren't over .500 for good until August last year. Should the Sox strive for that as well?

It’s a team sport. Sox need offense. The best players should be playing and they should’ve been able to go 14-5 against the Royals this year. 

[ptatc]

8 minutes ago, flavum said:

It’s a team sport. Sox need offense. The best players should be playing and they should’ve been able to go 14-5 against the Royals this year. 

This is the conundrum.  Is this more important than the end of the year?

We won't know until then. I personally do not know any of the inner workings of the clubhouse and players. 

The people there do. If they don't win in the playoffs,  changes need to be made. Until that point, I'm going to assume that the people in the clubhouse know more than I do about the situations.

The losing sucks but they have the keys and should live and die by them.

[Texsox]

44 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

The team had a better winning percentage in 2020 and lost in the first round of the playoffs, just like with Tony. The manager got fired. Everyone knew it was the correct move. Then they bring in this guy because JR wants to right what he considers a personal wrong. He may have done himself a solid, but he wronged his team, his management staff, and all the fans.

Just like he wronged his team, his management staff, and fans with every manager that's been hired not named Ozzie. Does it really matter why a manger was hired? Ozzie was the only one that didn't fail, and that was for only one season. 

[BigHurt3515]

31 minutes ago, ptatc said:

They also weren't over .500 for good until August last year. Should the Sox strive for that as well?

Why does that matter? If they didn't play as much maybe they would have been out of the playoffs all together

[BigHurt3515]

18 minutes ago, ptatc said:

This is the conundrum.  Is this more important than the end of the year?

We won't know until then. I personally do not know any of the inner workings of the clubhouse and players. 

The people there do. If they don't win in the playoffs,  changes need to be made. Until that point, I'm going to assume that the people in the clubhouse know more than I do about the situations.

The losing sucks but they have the keys and should live and die by them.

Did you miss last year?

[ChiSox59]

43 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

That's just it.  I see an entire team under-performing, and giving some of the worst defensive production I have ever seen from a team with World Series aspirations, under a manager who was supposed to have everyone playing "the right way", and it seems WAAAAY too coincidental to all be happening at once.  Jose Abreu talking about leaving.  Tim Anderson playing defense worse than he did as a rookie.  Almost every single hitter we have is having one of their worst starts ever.  The pen is just a dumpster fire, even the guys who have histories of pitching well are having extremely bad outings way more often than their histories would indicate they should.

You see this as 26 coincidences.  I see it as 1.  Why is everyone failing all at once?  This is literally Tony's job.

INSERT NAILED IT GIF.

[Dick Allen]

26 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Just like he wronged his team, his management staff, and fans with every manager that's been hired not named Ozzie. Does it really matter why a manger was hired? Ozzie was the only one that didn't fail, and that was for only one season. 

I don't agree. Not every team has a realistic shot at winning. This team does or at least did. There is a lot of talent. They should be much better. Tony is supposed to be Mr. preperation. This team looks ill prepared a good portion of the time. If Gene Lamont or Ricky Renteria was the person making out the line up card on Opening Day this year, I really believe they would be in a lot of trouble right now. There's a better chance JR makse me Czar of Baseball Operations than him canning Tony a 2nd time. But he is a big part of the problem. 

When the Sox had a lot less talent, and played as stupidly as this team does, a lot of people said it was Robin Ventura's fault. This season is starting to remind me of 1984. The Sox couldn't lose the second half on 1983. Picked up Tom Seaver in the offseason, and 95 wins was a lock. They started off bad and never got it going. Tony was managing that team as well.

Edited May 18, 2022 by Dick Allen

[ptatc]

14 minutes ago, BigHurt3515 said:

Why does that matter? If they didn't play as much maybe they would have been out of the playoffs all together

It makes as much sense as when the team was winning making a difference. Dies it matter if they win now or later or if they are 14-5 against the Royals?

[A-Train to 35th]

1 hour ago, MikeKreevich said:

They won 93 games last year under Tony.  TLRDS  (Tony LaRussa Derangement System)

You think, maybe, the problem could be this team can't hit a lick?

 

I saw a lot more hits/runs last year with Robert and Eloy among others out most of the year before they really got to know Tony.   This team can HIT, they just need an attitude adjustment which should be coming from the coach.  Our coach would rather be a players manager (see how much Pujols likes me guys) and the team is responding by playing baseball the way the former player/manager LARussa played which was not very good.

Edited May 18, 2022 by A-Train to 35th
sp

[ptatc]

16 minutes ago, BigHurt3515 said:

Did you miss last year?

I tend to give people second chances. I tend not to make quick or snap judgements. 

They made the playoffs after a weird season with a new staff. I'll give them another chance. 

[ChiSox59]

The crazy thing to me is the Sox largely built the big central lead last year without Robert, and Eloy who at the time who all considered to be a big time bat, with big time contributions from scrubs like Yermin, Goodwin and Hamilton that can't even crack the big leagues this season.  

[ptatc]

12 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I don't agree. Not every team has a realistic shot at winning. This team does or at least did. There is a lot of talent. They should be much better. Tony is supposed to be Mr. preperation. This team looks ill prepared a good portion of the time. If Gene Lamont or Ricky Renteria was the person making out the line up card on Opening Day this year, I really believe they would be in a lot of trouble right now. There's a better chance JR makse me Czar of Baseball Operations than him canning Tony a 2nd time. But he is a big part of the problem. 

When the Sox had a lot less talent, and played as stupidly as this team does, a lot of people said it was Robin Ventura's fault. This season is starting to remind me of 1984. The Sox couldn't lose the second half on 1983. Picked up Tom Seaver in the offseason, and 95 wins was a lock. They started off bad and never got it going. Tony was managing that team as well.

There is no doubt the team is underperformed. In the end there are 2 things for certain players are the ones underperformed and it is the ultimate responsibility of TLR the manager. 

The true question is would changing the manager at this point make the players play better?

Everyone will have an opinion.  If the outcome isn't better when the season is over some changes should be to be made.

[Bob Sacamano]

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

The crazy thing to me is the Sox largely built the big central lead last year without Robert, and Eloy who at the time who all considered to be a big time bat, with big time contributions from scrubs like Yermin, Goodwin and Hamilton that can't even crack the big leagues this season.  

I don’t even think Goodwin signed a minor league deal with anyone. I kinda liked him but he should never be in CF.

[A-Train to 35th]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

That's just it.  I see an entire team under-performing, and giving some of the worst defensive production I have ever seen from a team with World Series aspirations, under a manager who was supposed to have everyone playing "the right way", and it seems WAAAAY too coincidental to all be happening at once.  Jose Abreu talking about leaving.  Tim Anderson playing defense worse than he did as a rookie.  Almost every single hitter we have is having one of their worst starts ever.  The pen is just a dumpster fire, even the guys who have histories of pitching well are having extremely bad outings way more often than their histories would indicate they should.

You see this as 26 coincidences.  I see it as 1.  Why is everyone failing all at once?  This is literally Tony's job.

Couldn't agree more, all signs except the one Jerry see's point to Tony be a complete failure.  The players can only put up with the charade of "liking their manager" for so long before they lose interest in playing the game the right way with a winning approach.  Hard to get excited or stay focused day to day when  you don't know where you'll be hitting or when Leury will be taking your place in the line-up or batting order.

[ptatc]

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

The crazy thing to me is the Sox largely built the big central lead last year without Robert, and Eloy who at the time who all considered to be a big time bat, with big time contributions from scrubs like Yermin, Goodwin and Hamilton that can't even crack the big leagues this season.  

Baseball, crazy game.

I do think the Sox are more built for power as opposed to getting on base and playing small ball and the new baseball that travels less really hurt them.

Not sure if anyone could have predicted that.

[ptatc]

Just now, A-Train to 35th said:

Couldn't agree more, all signs except the one Jerry see's point to Tony be a complete failure.  The players can only put up with the charade of "liking their manager" for so long before they lose interest in playing the game the right way with a winning approach.  Hard to get excited or stay focused day to day when  you don't know where you'll be hitting or when Leury will be taking your place in the line-up or batting order.

I don't think this is the totally the case. From all reports players know well in advance when they will have scheduled days off. 

[Dick Allen]

2 minutes ago, ptatc said:

There is no doubt the team is underperformed. In the end there are 2 things for certain players are the ones underperformed and it is the ultimate responsibility of TLR the manager. 

The true question is would changing the manager at this point make the players play better?

Everyone will have an opinion.  If the outcome isn't better when the season is over some changes should be to be made.

They can only play as well as their talent lets them. It just seems to me there is a lack of focus I haven't seen with a White Sox team for a long while. Even when they were bad, they were bad because they had bad players. 

[Capn12]

1 hour ago, ptatc said:

They also weren't over .500 for good until August last year. Should the Sox strive for that as well?

Striving for it, no, but we're stuck there regardless.

[Balta1701]

5 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Baseball, crazy game.

I do think the Sox are more built for power as opposed to getting on base and playing small ball and the new baseball that travels less really hurt them.

Not sure if anyone could have predicted that.

The White Sox were tied for 19th in MLB in home runs in 2021 so if they’re built for power they have a long running issue.

[A-Train to 35th]

4 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I don't think this is the totally the case. From all reports players know well in advance when they will have scheduled days off. 

They may know that, but on any given day do they know for sure where they'll be hitting in the line-up.

If your given the day off, who say's you can't pick-up a bat in the 8th or 9th inning of a close game instead of send ing the bottom of our order up with the game on the line. 

[ptatc]

6 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

They can only play as well as their talent lets them. It just seems to me there is a lack of focus I haven't seen with a White Sox team for a long while. Even when they were bad, they were bad because they had bad players. 

I agree.

[ptatc]

Just now, A-Train to 35th said:

They may know that, but on any given day do they know for sure where they'll be hitting in the line-up.

If your given the day off, who say's you can't pick-up a bat in the 8th or 9th inning of a close game instead of send ing the bottom of our order up with the game on the line. 

That's why I said I didn't think it was totally true. I don't know when they know where in the order they are hitting.

I just know there have been reports about players knowing their scheduled days off a few days ahead of time.

[ChiSox59]

10 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

They can only play as well as their talent lets them. It just seems to me there is a lack of focus I haven't seen with a White Sox team for a long while. Even when they were bad, they were bad because they had bad players. 

I mean I think its safe to say Hahn would can TLR if he had approval to do so.  But even the Chairman can't be watching this club and be impressed with how they look.  They're frankly lucky to be .500, and look uninterested.  A change in the clubhouse is sorely needed.  

[BigHurt3515]

4 minutes ago, ptatc said:

That's why I said I didn't think it was totally true. I don't know when they know where in the order they are hitting.

I just know there have been reports about players knowing their scheduled days off a few days ahead of time.

Yeah which is just dumb. Things can change on a team pitch by pitch or even a couple hours before the game. Put the best lineup out there, give someone a day off when they are struggling at some aspect of the game for a couple games in a row. 

[Snopek]

17 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

I don’t even think Goodwin signed a minor league deal with anyone. I kinda liked him but he should never be in CF.

I believe I saw somewhere that he’s playing in Mexico in now.