Josh Donaldson called Tim Anderson "Jackie"

[CentralChamps21]

11 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

 Even if you were able to wave a magic wand to make every single bit of racism in the US disappear, that gap does not because wealth is transferred generationally.  These are people who start from behind in wealth, live in substandard neighborhoods, attend substandard schools, with lower funding, and have fewer work opportunities even when of equal qualifications in the job market.

This IS a never ending loop that will never go away unless something is done.

This is what I was trying to say but you said it better.

[Chick Mercedes]

4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Its the 2022 version of "know your place, boy".  Same message, new words.

At the heart of it is when black people communicate their experiences, or perception of, and other folks that don't know what it is like to be black other than to imagine, then proceed to tell black people that black people don't understand,  or are lying, or are wrong. That's very dismissive and arrogant, and if you ask me, reveals disdain. Personally, Josh Donaldson may be a racist, but his biggest driving quality is that he is a douchebag that instinctively knows how to troll. I think Timmy may have overstepped when he compared himself to Jackie. But I also read his comments, and found them to be very reasonable comments. That's what Donaldson did, try to invalidate Timmy's feelings because for him, trolling is fun, and that will cause people to fight a troll occasionally.

 

[Snopek]

12 minutes ago, Polar Bear said:

The concept of looking at everything through the lens of color is inherently racist in its own right because it is based in treating those of different races separately 

Bringing racism into something that is entirely devoid of racism is the problem with things today

We are all one.  So people need to stop looking at a person's skin color and defining what they are allowed to do and not do based on their skin color....thats racism in its purist form

This notion sounds simple enough on the surface, but it’s my understanding that many people of color have a lot of pride in their race and heritage. Skin color should be able to be celebrated, not ignored.

[Polar Bear]

Just now, Heads22 said:

The thing is its not a situation devoid of racism. Someone would have to be completely clueless to ignore that calling a black person "Jackie" that you're not particularly close with could easily be construed as racism.

 

Why do we give Donaldson the benefit of the doubt that he's smart enough to reference a three year old article and is solely riffing on Tim wanting to make baseball exciting, etc., but that he's not cognizant of how that can be interpreted? That's not something he's earned based on past interactions with this team and this player.

As to the first part.  It is devoid of racism imo bc race has and had nothing to do with the comment.  It was TA who in fact called himself Jackie and over the next 3 years plus Donaldson had called him Jackie numerous times bc TA called himself that.  TA did not view any of those comments as racist over those 3 plus years and he himself in fact did not call it racist yesterday when provided the opportunity after the game.  Why? Why just call it disrespectful (which i agree it was)?  Bc something doesn't magically become racist and TA knew he could not answer for what magically changed to make it become racist....

It cannot be easily construed as racism unless the person construing it believes that a white person is not allowed to call another person (who claimed himself to be the next Jackie) Jackie.  To do so would in fact be racist by definition.  

As to the last part, everyone on Earth has earned that.  The world is not even one tenth as racist as the media and others would have you believe.  Does it exist, yes.  Does it exist all times when different races are involved, not at all.  People are humans first and foremost, not of a race.  The majority of all humans are decent and kind.  Some are asses.  Only a minute fraction are racist bc it goes against what people are truly are, humans.  

Unless there have been numerous other incidents that involve Donaldson (there have not been) that show he is racist or partook in racism then imo he has as a person and human being has earned that trust to not throw around those labels or statements.  

Insensitive, absolutely 

Disrespectful. Definitely 

Is he an ass, yup

But that's where it ends imo.  

[Chick Mercedes]

5 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

Just watch what comes out of Joy Reids mouth, if you don't agree with her, you are a racist.

 You'll have to be specific. 

 

A lot of people are defensive, and a lot of people want to declare racism is over after the span of eons of human existence. A lot of possible reasons that is happening now I suppose

[JoeC]

Recommended reading:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078LJKP88/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

Book about Derek Black, a former White Nationalist (godson of David Duke), and how he learned to shed the beliefs of his upbringing.

[southsider2k5]

6 minutes ago, Polar Bear said:

As to the first part.  It is devoid of racism imo bc race has and had nothing to do with the comment.  It was TA who in fact called himself Jackie and TA did not view any of those comments as racist over those 3 plus years and he himself in fact did not call it racist yesterday when provided the opportunity after the game.  Why? Why just call it disrespectful (which i agree it was)?  Bc something doesn't magically become racist and TA knew he could not answer for what magically changed to make it become racist....

It cannot be easily construed as racism unless the person construing it believes that a white person is not allowed to call another person (who claimed himself to be the next Jackie) Jackie.  To do so would in fact be racist by definition.  

As to the last part, everyone on Earth has earned that.  The world is not even one tenth as racist as the media and others would have you believe.  Does it exist, yes.  Does it exist all times when different races are involved, not at all.  People are humans first and foremost, not of a race.  The majority of all humans are decent and kind.  Some are asses.  Only a minute fraction are racist bc it goes against what people are truly are, humans.  

Unless there have been numerous other incidents that involve Donaldson (there have not been) that show he is racist or partook in racism then imo he has as a person and human being has earned that trust to not throw around those labels or statements.  

Insensitive, absolutely 

Disrespectful. Definitely 

Is he an ass, yup

But that's where it ends imo.  

This is 100% not true.  There is absolutely no where that TA said this was OK. Just because he ignored it, doesn't mean he was OK with it. Victim blaming Anderson is trash.

[Heads22]

 

[Polar Bear]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

This is 100% not true.  There is absolutely no where that TA said this was OK. Just because he ignored it, doesn't mean he was OK with it. Victim blaming Anderson is trash.

No one is victim blaming anyone.  TA has been outspoken and vocal since day 1 in Chicago.  I'm saying he has been and was measured in his words yesterday bc he knows it to not be inherently racist or racism.  Just disrespectful (which it absolutely is and was) 

Why do you think its just a bunch of white players speaking out about this...

Did TA lose his voice? what about Abreu, Robert, Eloy, Leury (I haven't seen anything from them,  if they have spoken I missed it)

What about Hicks, Judge, Stanton.....

The terms racist and racism should not be used lightly and at everything bc its not something that can be walked back, its not something that can be undone nowadays.  

Did you speak with TA? Do you have intimate knowledge of his beliefs on that matter, same with Donaldson....

 

[black jack]

I'm a huge NY Jets fan and frequent a Jets message board.  That board as you can guess is filled with a majority of Mets and Yankee fans.  The board is also very liberal and has a huge African American membership.  There have been numerous discussions about race and other hot topics not unlike this board so I feel like I have a pretty good idea how most of the members will react and respond.  

The responses there are a bit surprising.  I expected it to be similar to here, but it's the polar opposite.  

I find it interesting that Sox fans see it as racist, but Yankee fans don't. 

They're saying TA7 better get used to the "Jackie" cat calls etc. 

 

Edited May 22, 2022 by black jack

[Heads22]

 

Quote

“I understand that Josh has been very forthcoming with the history of it, the context of it. I don’t believe there was any malicious intent with that regard. This is just somewhere in my opinion he should not be going,” Boone said before Sunday’s doubleheader at the Stadium.

Boone acknowledged that he also was immediately bothered to learn that Robinson’s name was used before hearing Donaldson’s public and private explanations.

“When I first heard the name Jackie mentioned, I was really taken aback and frankly upset about it myself,” Boone said. “I think when you go back to the context, the original story of where it was born out of, out of the article, and then now a few years of saying that, I’m less taken aback by it at that point.

“But again, I sit here, as a white guy, that did change the context for me, but I also understand how it can be offensive or upsetting.”

“Again, I think Josh has been very forthcoming and I think was forthcoming yesterday about the history of it. Not that that makes it a great thing, but it definitely changes the context in my opinion about it. But I certainly understand this is sensitive and you gotta read the room in that sense.”

 

 

 

 

[greg775]

7 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

He actually presented a valid rebuttal ?

Are u serious? Must be nice to have pals who back each other.  He fired back what he did to me after my long posts and that's a fair argument to continue? LOL. Thanks. I'll sit this baby out for good. I lose.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 hours ago, RG23SoxFan said:

How about a black man's opinion?:

Let me guess, his opinion doesn't count because it doesn't align with your ideology?

Only person who hates black people and denies racism more than Schilling is probably Whitlock. 

[The Mighty Mite]

14 minutes ago, black jack said:

I'm a huge NY Jets fan and frequent a Jets message board.  That board as you can guess is filled with a majority of Mets and Yankee fans.  The board is also very liberal and has a huge African American membership.  There have been numerous discussions about race and other hot topics not unlike this board so I feel like I have a pretty good idea how most of the members will react and respond.  

The responses there are a bit surprising.  I expected it to be similar to here, but it's the polar opposite.  

I find it interesting that Sox fans see it as racist, but Yankee fans don't. 

They're saying TA7 better get used to the "Jackie" cat calls etc. 

Bear in mind these are black posters not skinheads saying this. 

It's the Yankees are the good guys and the White Sox are the bad guys, not surprising.

Edited May 22, 2022 by The Mighty Mite

[Spumoni]

Not adding anything that hasn’t already been said, but it is clear at this point that it was clearly a racial and derogatory remark. That’s enough for me. People twisting themselves into pretzels as to what Donaldson’s intentions were rather than just clearly condemning the action itself says a whole lot. 

[southsider2k5]

15 minutes ago, Polar Bear said:

No one is victim blaming anyone.  TA has been outspoken and vocal since day 1 in Chicago.  I'm saying he has been and was measured in his words yesterday bc he knows it to not be inherently racist or racism.  Just disrespectful (which it absolutely is and was) 

Why do you think its just a bunch of white players speaking out about this...

Did TA lose his voice? what about Abreu, Robert, Eloy, Leury (I haven't seen anything from them,  if they have spoken I missed it)

What about Hicks, Judge, Stanton.....

The terms racist and racism should not be used lightly and at everything bc its not something that can be walked back, its not something that can be undone nowadays.  

Did you speak with TA? Do you have intimate knowledge of his beliefs on that matter, same with Donaldson....

 

Out of curiosity,  since you have appointed yourself as the bearer of the standards of racism,  how many teammates need to say something.  You have 2 white ones and a Hispanic one to start with. 

I would say TA has been measured because he knows that people are looking to destroy him on things like this because of his race and outspokeness.  Because people are willing to put the victim on trial here because he didn't measure up to imaginary BS standards,  instead of the actual problem in Josh Donaldson.  It's almost like his teammates are looking to protect him from people who don't understand what is like to be black in America and are wanting to put TA on trial for daring to stand up to racist tropes without justifying it to everyone who doesn't care to understand why.

Of course you haven't talked to TA at all either, yet here you are subscribing thoughts to him that are 180 degrees from his history and actions. 

And as to Donaldson,  he doesn't have to have racist intent for his words and actions to have racist undertones. That isn't up to Donaldson,  which is exactly the point.

[Polar Bear]

8 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Of course you haven't talked to TA at all either, yet here you are subscribing thoughts to him that are 180 degrees from his history and actions. 

I am going off of statements actually made from the players themselves, something you obviously either cannot do or choose to not do 

[greg775]

3 hours ago, shoeless_joe21 said:

I'm trans. For so many years of my life, there wasn't a day that went by that I didn't think about killing myself. Gradually, I stopped socializing altogether and just sort of let my friendships fade away, because I wanted to hurt as few people as possible when I left.

It's not necessary that a comedian "goes after" someone like me. Everyone I cared about already did that, without knowing it, when I was growing up. It was just one of those things that was acceptable to mock. The only time I ever saw another person like me, it was on trash TV like Springer and presented as a freakshow. I never had to wonder how people felt about me, because eventually they volunteered their feelings through a hurtful joke. My friends, teachers, bosses, even my siblings and parents.

I'm not saying Chappelle can't make trans jokes or should be "canceled" for doing so. I'm just asking, why do it? Why punch down? It's hack comedy, and it emboldens bigots to continue viewing people like me as subhuman.

The Josh Donaldsons of the world have always been there, and probably always will be. But I never dreamed that there could be so many Yasmani Grandals. People willing to stand up for me, or at least, give me the basic human dignity we all should be afforded. So, if given the choice, why not be a Grandal?

Good post Shoeless Joe. Thanks for sharing. I'm sorry u have gone through a lot in your life in terms of hurtful comments. Trust me I'm serious about that. And I'm glad u are resilient. Glad u never followed thru on your thoughts of leaving the world.

I'm glad you said this line in yout post u said, '(I'm not saying Chappelle can't make trans jokes or should be "canceled" for doing so'). That proves to me you in addition to being a thoughtful person u have a clue cause you apparently realize it's comedy.

Then you add a statement which you have every right to add: (You said ... 'I'm just asking, why do it? Why punch down? It's hack comedy, and it emboldens bigots to continue viewing people like me as subhuman')."

That's a fair statement. My only answer is some comics "go after" all people all things. Not telling u anything u don't know. Remember Andrew Dice Clay? Don Rickles? They attacked virtually everybody. If you watch Chappelle long enough he'll probably get arround to offending a lot of people. If I was sitting in the front row at his concert he'd probably mock me.

My only answer to you is it's comedy. If somebody at a show doesn't want to take the joke and are offended, one could either just wait to see how many other groups of peeps he offends or get up and leave. That would make a big statement at the comedy show.

Like I said the Carlin concert I was at, I'd say 1/4 of the peeps left cause he was attacking parents who give their kids modern names he didn't like. The mommies and daddies in the crowd, some of em, didn't like the jokes.

Carlin said he was for all natural disasters and loved reading stories about people dying cause he acknowledged he hated all people and actually had a joke saying he was for anything that caused people to die so it'd be less jerks on the planet. He went after so many groups ... he felt as if his hatred of all people was fair game comedy. I thought it was funny cause it was IMO pretty hilarious stuff he was spewing. He was so outrageous, yes in a comedy setting it was quite funny. He and Chappelle had/have other material too. They just don't bash away for 90 minutes. 

p.s. I hope your friends, siblings, bosses, parents are treating u with respect and love. Hope your pain will go away.

 

Edited May 22, 2022 by greg775

[southsider2k5]

8 minutes ago, Polar Bear said:

I am going off of statements actually made from the players themselves, something you obviously either cannot do or choose to not do 

So where did Tim say his previous statements were OK and not racist?

[Polar Bear]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

So where did Tim say his previous statements were OK and not racist?

He said yesterday's statements were not racist.  He in fact specifically called them "disrespectful" so why are you, the media or anyoneelse making things up that it was racist.....

"Disrespectful" does not equal "racist"

[greg775]

1 hour ago, MikeKreevich said:

Following and watching sports is an escape, for me, from everyday worries and especially politics

Exactly. Same with a good comedy show or music performance. ... This incident should result in an apology and significant suspension and then baseball try to move on with the season.

[greg775]

49 minutes ago, black jack said:

They're saying TA7 better get used to the "Jackie" cat calls etc. 

 

That would be very unfortunate. Doesn't security kick u out immediately if you are going after a specific player with taunts? Fans have to help the security in this case and point out the hecklers so they can get ejected from the park. Can't be yelling that at players.

[RG23SoxFan]

50 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Only person who hates black people and denies racism more than Schilling is probably Whitlock. 

Yeah right that's it...

[southsider2k5]

17 minutes ago, Polar Bear said:

He said yesterday's statements were not racist.  He in fact specifically called them "disrespectful" so why are you, the media or anyoneelse making things up that it was racist.....

"Disrespectful" does not equal "racist"

So no, got it.

[Polar Bear]

8 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

So no, got it.

So no defense from you again, figures, got it.