Josh Donaldson called Tim Anderson "Jackie"

[greg775]

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

"Cancel Culture" is a phrase used by people who don't want to be held responsible for anything they do.

Disagree. Can u say Dave Chappelle? The attempt at canceling him is over his profession ... cutting JOKES.

[Hang Wiffem]

6 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Disagree. Can u say Dave Chappelle? The attempt at canceling him is over his profession ... cutting JOKES.

Jokes where the punchline is always hurtful to transgendered people. But I'm sure you don't want to get into that right now.

[caulfield12]

25 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

What a fucking clown

 

At least Ty Cobb or one of the racists Pee Wee Reese shut down on the 47 Dodgers would be closer.

Nobody has ever argued Robinson was the greatest player (not even in the Negro League of that time)...but he was the right player at the right time in history.  Period.  Full stop.

(If they were so clever as they thought, they would have brought up Tiger Woods, lol.  Because there would be a massive debate between him and Nicklaus as greatest. Or Bonds and Ruth back in the day.  Arguments for another time.)

Edited May 22, 2022 by caulfield12

[greg775]

9 minutes ago, Hang Wiffem said:

Jokes where the punchline is always hurtful to transgendered people. But I'm sure you don't want to get into that right now.

I think Dave Chappelle is so funny it's beyond words. His job is to be a comedian. Like Don Rickles, no subject is off limits for a great comedian like Chappelle/Rickles. Some like Seinfeld (who I just love also) keep it clean and don't make jokes about sex and race and ethnicity; some do. It's just comedy. One can turn the channel or not go to the concert or walk out of the concert if they don't like it. I was listening to Chappelle's bit about meeting O.J. four times tonight off youtube and he had me laughing my ass off. A guy like Seinfeld won't go after an O.J., which is fine too.

As far as comedy, I thought George Carlin was brilliant. I saw his show in Vegas. He was attacking parents for giving male boys what he called sissy names. He gave some examples of names he didn't like (he preferred Joe, Bill, Bob, Dave; names like that). I'd say 1/4 of the crowd walked out. Their right to leave of course but no need to cancel the late genius, George Carlin over comedy.

Edited May 22, 2022 by greg775

[caulfield12]

2 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I think Dave Chappelle is so funny it's beyond words. His job is to be a comedian. Like Don Rickles, no subject is off limits for a great comedian like Chappelle/Rickles. Some like Seinfeld (who I just love also) keep it clean and don't make jokes about sex and race and ethnicity; some do. It's just comedy. One can turn the channel or not go to the concert if they don't like it. I was listening to Chappelle's bit about meeting O.J. four times tonight off youtube and he had me laughing my ass off. A guy like Seinfeld won't go after an O.J., which is fine too.

Greg, Greg, Greg.  You're about to be eviscerated with this argument. And none of that will truly be about cancel culture either.

Edited May 22, 2022 by caulfield12

[Colome's Hat]

15 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I think Dave Chappelle is so funny it's beyond words. His job is to be a comedian. Like Don Rickles, no subject is off limits for a great comedian like Chappelle/Rickles. Some like Seinfeld (who I just love also) keep it clean and don't make jokes about sex and race and ethnicity; some do. It's just comedy. One can turn the channel or not go to the concert or walk out of the concert if they don't like it. I was listening to Chappelle's bit about meeting O.J. four times tonight off youtube and he had me laughing my ass off. A guy like Seinfeld won't go after an O.J., which is fine too.

As far as comedy, I thought George Carlin was brilliant. I saw his show in Vegas. He was attacking parents for giving male boys what he called sissy names. He gave some examples of names he didn't like (he preferred Joe, Bill, Bob, Dave; names like that). I'd say 1/4 of the crowd walked out. Their right to leave of course but no need to cancel the late genius, George Carlin over comedy.

I agree with you that Chapelle is a genius.  And that's why it's really sad to me that he continues to punch down and make transgender people the object of his ridicule.  The only way Chapelle's jokes would work, at least in my opinion as a cis gendered person, is if he turned them around himself and made his potential transphobia the object of the joke.

[southsider2k5]

46 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

What a fucking clown

 

How about if he called him David Duke?  

[greg775]

20 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Greg, Greg, Greg.  You're about to be eviscerated with this argument. And none of that will truly be about cancel culture either.

I didn't start it. I was responding to a post about cancel culture and being told what it is. I love me some comedy cause I don't take it seriously. It's comedy baby. And Chappelle is so funny I can't even describe.

[greg775]

8 minutes ago, Colome's Hat said:

I agree with you that Chapelle is a genius.  And that's why it's really sad to me that he continues to punch down and make transgender people the object of his ridicule.  The only way Chapelle's jokes would work, at least in my opinion as a cis gendered person, is if he turned them around himself and made his potential transphobia the object of the joke.

It's not like he has one topic in his show. It's not like he goes out there an hour and hits one group and one only. He goes after all sorts of groups as part of his COMEDY ACT. People need to chill out. Comedy is comedy. People can turn the channel, not buy tickets or walk out. 

[Colome's Hat]

 

This is probably also worth noting.  Don't know if Grandal's family history but it may have touched a nerve with him as well.  Shout out to Grandal for being an amazing leader though.

 

[southsider2k5]

31 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I think Dave Chappelle is so funny it's beyond words. His job is to be a comedian. Like Don Rickles, no subject is off limits for a great comedian like Chappelle/Rickles. Some like Seinfeld (who I just love also) keep it clean and don't make jokes about sex and race and ethnicity; some do. It's just comedy. One can turn the channel or not go to the concert or walk out of the concert if they don't like it. I was listening to Chappelle's bit about meeting O.J. four times tonight off youtube and he had me laughing my ass off. A guy like Seinfeld won't go after an O.J., which is fine too.

As far as comedy, I thought George Carlin was brilliant. I saw his show in Vegas. He was attacking parents for giving male boys what he called sissy names. He gave some examples of names he didn't like (he preferred Joe, Bill, Bob, Dave; names like that). I'd say 1/4 of the crowd walked out. Their right to leave of course but no need to cancel the late genius, George Carlin over comedy.

Exactly.  He should be able to do anything he wants with no consequences.   

Where did I hear that before?

[greg775]

This is all pretty unsettling for baseball. Baseball needs to solve this incident quickly. It has the potential to get really really ugly. Not sure what commish should do but it's pretty much all in Donaldson's court. He needs to figure out how to make amends for this and do it quickly.

 

[greg775]

7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Exactly.  He should be able to do anything he wants with no consequences.   

Where did I hear that before?

i'll drop this if you want, but I do have a question. Do you believe in comedy? Do you believe all topics are OK for comics to tackle? Have you been to a comedy show? And do you think comedy should be allowed in America with all topics acceptable, letting the people decide if they want to support the comic or not? To make him/her popular or not?

It's OK if you think "risque" comedy or "cuss word comedy" should be regulated. I don't. I think Chappelle and others have free reign. Let the consumer decide if that comic gets popular or not. it's just entertainment. Comedy is something people don't have to support if they don't want. But no need to cancel comics over their act.

Edited May 22, 2022 by greg775

[southsider2k5]

9 minutes ago, greg775 said:

i'll drop this if you want, but I do have a question. Do you believe in comedy? Do you believe all topics are OK for comics to tackle? Have you been to a comedy show? And do you think comedy should be allowed in America with all topics acceptable, letting the people decide if they want to support the comic or not? To make him/her popular or not?

It's OK if you think "risque" comedy or "cuss word comedy" should be regulated. I don't. I think Chappelle and others have free reign. Let the consumer decide if that comic gets popular or not. it's just entertainment. Comedy is something people don't have to support if they don't want. But no need to cancel comics over their act.

Do you believe in personal responsibility?

[brijames1957]

Again almost everyone is missing the point here. It doesn't even matter what he said and if you think it was racist or not.  TA and Donaldson are NOT friends. They are not even friendly. You don't joke around like that with someone your not friend's with. 

Donaldson has a history of bad blood with the Sox. He shouldn't even be yapping at TA. Why say anything? Like TA said he wasn't looking for trouble today. It was just Donaldson being a d***. 

And big ups to Yasmani for standing up for TA. Maybe this will be a spark for this team. 

 

[harkness99]

2 minutes ago, brijames1957 said:

Again almost everyone is missing the point here. It doesn't even matter what he said and if you think it was racist or not.  TA and Donaldson are NOT friends. They are not even friendly. You don't joke around like that with someone your not friend's with. 

Donaldson has a history of bad blood with the Sox. He shouldn't even be yapping at TA. Why say anything? Like TA said he wasn't looking for trouble today. It was just Donaldson being a d***. 

And big ups to Yasmani for standing up for TA. Maybe this will be a spark for this team. 

 

nah  most of us are not missing the point

 

donaldson is an ass we all know that.. however we didn't know that he would also taunt someone with something that he knew at least had some racial undertones.

 

Whole other level.

[Stinky Stanky]

I'm not saying that I or any of us would do it, but understanding that taunting can be a pretty rough sports tradition, if Tim truly compared himself to an American icon like Jackie Robinson, could he be inviting this sort of thing?  Or is it only racism because of the ethnicities involved?

[harkness99]

7 minutes ago, Stinky Stanky said:

I'm not saying that I or any of us would do it, but understanding that taunting can be a pretty rough sports tradition, if Tim truly compared himself to an American icon like Jackie Robinson, could he be inviting this sort of thing?  Or is it only racism because of the ethnicities involved?

he compared himself to Jackie Robinson because baseball is dying out among black Americans - that hopefully his style of play and personality would maybe attract more black kids to playing baseball.

 

His entire point was based on race and sports - making fun of him for that is about race no matter how you slice it.

Edited May 22, 2022 by harkness99

[Chisoxfn]

Fuck josh Donaldson!!! Go TA7. 

[Ozzie for Manager]

When my son told me he called Donaldson Jackie Robinson I said cool. Totally thought it was a compliment. But then again I dont immediately try to find how something is racist. When I played in a adult basketball league in Kinston, NC which is considered the top basketball city in the country with like 8 NBA players in its history I was the only white guy in the league. The PA announcer was calling me Bobby Hurley because he went to Duke and I was playing PG for our team. I didnt take it as a racist remark, took it as a compliment. I was a white guy who was playing pretty well.

This country has a problem with race because we publicize stupid crap like this. Everyone is offended, Football and basketball players must be laughing because the trash talk that goes on in those games is 100x worse.

[greg775]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

Do you believe in personal responsibility?

Well ... sure.

If I break the law I am responsible for my actions and should be punished. Like rob a store or carjack or punch somebody and break their jaw. If I do something like that it is my crime and I must accept the penalty. I am responsible for those heinous things and must be penalized.

If I take a bat and start whacking my neighbor's car I am responsible for damages and must pay the price in court of law. If I jump. over the fence and run on the field and delay a Sox game, I am responsible and should be tackled and charged and thrown into a cell.

If I am a baseball player and call TA "Jackie" twice during a game do I deserve a penalty? Sure. I think he should be penalized. The length of the suspension maybe to be decided after a meeting between commish and player. One week to two months depending on what Tim wants and how Donaldson explains himself. True all Donaldson did was utter words and not physically assault TA, however, the words could be construed as racist and meant to cause a disruption/fight in the baseball game. And those who run the game could feel these words were directed at one person in a sports setting, not some entertainment venue in which such comments might be allowed (like a comedy club). Thus the comments are not good for the sport or specifically today's game and Donaldson's words deserve punishment IMO. He did it to rile up an opponent and like u say, personal responsibility kicks in and he should be punished.

 

Do I think comics are personally responsible for words in their act? Personally I'd say no. People can get up and leave or even ask for their money back even though that request would prolly be denied. If they do it on TV or Netflix, the consumer can always turn off the TV or close the browser window. You should know if you choose to go to a comedy show something offensive to some, funny to others, might be said.

Now if a comedian grabs a brick and throws it into the crowd, yeah they are responsible for their actions and should be prosecuted. So I guess yes I do believe in personal responsibility.

However I don't think you are gonna answer my specific questions about comedy. I tried to answer yours.

I would hope most people in the world have a sense of humor.

 

Edited May 22, 2022 by greg775

[greg775]

27 minutes ago, pmb0928 said:

When my son told me he called Donaldson Jackie Robinson I said cool. Totally thought it was a compliment. But then again I dont immediately try to find how something is racist. When I played in a adult basketball league in Kinston, NC which is considered the top basketball city in the country with like 8 NBA players in its history I was the only white guy in the league. The PA announcer was calling me Bobby Hurley because he went to Duke and I was playing PG for our team. I didnt take it as a racist remark, took it as a compliment. I was a white guy who was playing pretty well.

This country has a problem with race because we publicize stupid crap like this. Everyone is offended, Football and basketball players must be laughing because the trash talk that goes on in those games is 100x worse.

This type of post is thought provoking and interesting and personally why I still look at message boards. You offer an interesting perspective and give me something to think about. I'd have to think more about what you wrote before commenting but I totally endorse  your right to make this post.

Edited May 22, 2022 by greg775

[southsider2k5]

6 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Well ... sure.

If I break the law I am responsible for my actions and should be punished. Like rob a store or carjack or punch somebody and break their jaw. If I do something like that it is my crime and I must accept the penalty. I am responsible for those heinous things and must be penalized.

If I take a bat and start whacking my neighbor's car I am responsible for damages and must pay the price in court of law. If I jump. over the fence and run on the field and delay a Sox game, I am responsible and should be tackled and charged and thrown into a cell.

If I am a baseball player and call TA "Jackie" twice during a game do I deserve a penalty? Sure. I think he should be penalized. The length of the suspension maybe to be decided after a meeting between commish and player. One week to two months depending on what Tim wants and how Donaldson explains himself.

 

Do I think comics are personally responsible for words in their act? Personally I'd say no. People can get up and leave or even ask for their money back even though that request would prolly be denied. If they do it on TV or Netflix, the consumer can always turn off the TV or close the browser window. You should know if you choose to go to a comedy show something offensive to some, funny to others, might be said.

Now if a comedian grabs a brick and throws it into the crowd, yeah they are responsible for their actions and should be prosecuted. So I guess yes I do believe in personal responsibility.

However I don't think you are gonna answer my specific questions about comedy. I tried to answer yours.

I would hope most people in the world have a sense of humor.

 

Cool, so if I call you a racist and everyone laughs, no problem, right?

[caulfield12]

33 minutes ago, pmb0928 said:

When my son told me he called Donaldson Jackie Robinson I said cool. Totally thought it was a compliment. But then again I dont immediately try to find how something is racist. When I played in a adult basketball league in Kinston, NC which is considered the top basketball city in the country with like 8 NBA players in its history I was the only white guy in the league. The PA announcer was calling me Bobby Hurley because he went to Duke and I was playing PG for our team. I didnt take it as a racist remark, took it as a compliment. I was a white guy who was playing pretty well.

This country has a problem with race because we publicize stupid crap like this. Everyone is offended, Football and basketball players must be laughing because the trash talk that goes on in those games is 100x worse.

The NBA and MLB have almost the exact opposite percentage splits, it might be something like 8% American born players that are Caucasian, at least relatively close. MLB 7-9% African American something like that.

One argument there of course is about reverse racism, and societal tolerance for that.

The other is you would essentially have to be making fun of (while still backwards complimenting in a way, as a grudging sign of respect) Tim Anderson by comparing him with a gritty white player like a David Eckstein or Darin Erstad, certainly NOT Jackie Robinson.

In your example, it was a sign of respect for your play and scrappiness. In Donaldson's example, it was most certainly not meant as a compliment at all.  He was saying you should know your place, don't act like you're all that, "too uppity."

Edited May 22, 2022 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Cool, so if I call you a racist and everyone laughs, no problem, right?

Elon Musk would probably argue yes.  Not sure about society at large.