Aaron Judge Critical Of Donaldson's "Jackie" Comment

[wegner]

3 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

If anything the blue checkmarks are coming out of the woodwork to deflect and defend Donaldson’s “intent.”  As if we don’t already have a long documented history of the dude being complete and utter trash person on and off the field.  Telling people just to move on says you’re ok with all of it and just want to sweep it away as if it isn’t a raw nerve for people of the receiving end of demeaning and derisive comments. 

Donaldson deserves absolutely 0% benefit of the doubt with his history.

[HOFHurt35]

33 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Blue checkmarks on Twitter twisting themselves in knots defending Josh freaking Donaldson this morning is something.  

It amazes me that they fail to comprehend what it is they are writing out. 

Read before hitting send. 

They keep holding on to the "article", not realizing they are taking that out of context in the first place.   Those are the grounds they are standing by to defend Donaldson.  And more comical, willing to die on that hill. 

They see ZERO wrong with a white man calling a black man "Jackie" during a non friendly exchange.    I mean, what world are we living in where that's not an issue?   TA and Donaldson are clearly not friends.     Donaldson's use of "Jackie" towards TA was clearly meant w/ bad intent.   He should should have just dropped the N-bomb on it on gone all the way in.    

 

[caulfield12]

The day after the incident, when Anderson came up to the plate, it really did feel like the dismal days of Jackie Robinson were being channeled as the Yankee faithful booed him vociferously. In the words of longtime sports columnist David Steele, “It’s ‘Boy Remember Your Place Night’ at the ballpark in the Bronx.” That Anderson responded to the boos with a three-hit game, including a three-run HR game, ironically also echoed Robinson: succeeding in the face of a racist tidal wave by opposing fans.

There is a bigger issue here than just the morality play that went down in the Bronx. Consider the idea that Josh Donaldson actually used the word “Jackie” as a racial slur. On one level, this is shocking. Jack Roosevelt Robinson is a hero of the first order who walked through hell in a gasoline suit precisely so players—players like Anderson—wouldn’t have to endure the racism that he faced. His name should forever be remembered not only as a synonym for courage but also as a reminder that baseball—not merely “society”—was extremely racist when he attempted to integrate the sport. The problem with the way Major League Baseball celebrates and remembers Robinson is that it talks a lot about the first part—with abstract words like “bravery”—without discussing exactly what kind of athletic environment he had to be brave in. If the league does discuss context, it’s always that word again, “society,” as if racism was just something in the air—not something that baseball as an institution was actually built upon. Major League Baseball fits Robinson into a neat schema of “segregation, integration, celebration!” Its desire for marketing and patriotism, which are really one and the same, is for baseball to symbolize “post-racialism.”

…..

The fact is that Josh Donaldson represents a lasting culture within Major League Baseball. It’s a culture in which Robinson is praised abstractly, but current players like Anderson are routinely disrespected. Alienating Black players with magnetism like Anderson has also discourages a generation of young athletes who choose not to play baseball because of how Anderson has been treated. That will cause the great sport to suffer immeasurably. The entire sport pays a price if it holds up a sign that says, “Not For You.” We also pay a social cost, beyond the generational loss of new talent, by allowing racist ideas to fester in the “national pastime.”

 

https://www.thenation.com/article/society/when-jackie-robinson-is-used-as-a-racial-slur/

 

 

[Hang Wiffem]

I don't know why I still read comments on social media posts, but I do, but even the first 50 comments on most local news posts about this are variations of "what if Donaldson called himself Babe Ruth and Tim teased him about that? Is that racist??? Should a player be suspended for calling Mike Trout the new Mickey Mantle???"

People are either that dumb or trying so hard to not understand this. Shut up and listen. Be willing to see other perspectives.

[raBBit]

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

The day after the incident, when Anderson came up to the plate, it really did feel like the dismal days of Jackie Robinson were being channeled as the Yankee faithful booed him vociferously. In the words of longtime sports columnist David Steele, “It’s ‘Boy Remember Your Place Night’ at the ballpark in the Bronx.” That Anderson responded to the boos with a three-hit game, including a three-run HR game, ironically also echoed Robinson: succeeding in the face of a racist tidal wave by opposing fans.

 There is a bigger issue here than just the morality play that went down in the Bronx. Consider the idea that Josh Donaldson actually used the word “Jackie” as a racial slur. On one level, this is shocking. Jack Roosevelt Robinson is a hero of the first order who walked through hell in a gasoline suit precisely so players—players like Anderson—wouldn’t have to endure the racism that he faced. His name should forever be remembered not only as a synonym for courage but also as a reminder that baseball—not merely “society”—was extremely racist when he attempted to integrate the sport. The problem with the way Major League Baseball celebrates and remembers Robinson is that it talks a lot about the first part—with abstract words like “bravery”—without discussing exactly what kind of athletic environment he had to be brave in. If the league does discuss context, it’s always that word again, “society,” as if racism was just something in the air—not something that baseball as an institution was actually built upon. Major League Baseball fits Robinson into a neat schema of “segregation, integration, celebration!” Its desire for marketing and patriotism, which are really one and the same, is for baseball to symbolize “post-racialism.”

 …..

The fact is that Josh Donaldson represents a lasting culture within Major League Baseball. It’s a culture in which Robinson is praised abstractly, but current players like Anderson are routinely disrespected. Alienating Black players with magnetism like Anderson has also discourages a generation of young athletes who choose not to play baseball because of how Anderson has been treated. That will cause the great sport to suffer immeasurably. The entire sport pays a price if it holds up a sign that says, “Not For You.” We also pay a social cost, beyond the generational loss of new talent, by allowing racist ideas to fester in the “national pastime.”

 

https://www.thenation.com/article/society/when-jackie-robinson-is-used-as-a-racial-slur/

What evidence is there that players are routinely alienated? It's really unfortunate this guy is trying to diminish the borderline torture that JR went through to integrate the game. There are more young black kids that want to play baseball because of TA, not the other way around.

Of course the writer doesn't substantiate his claims (there is no evidence).

Tim is a star and absolutely deserves everything he gets but the MLB puts him at the front of their leaguewide promotional materials regularly. Along with Judge, Betts and others. Donaldson is an idiot. TA is a superstar. This writer is a blowhard who doesn't know what he is talking about. Let's hope Sox unite around Timmy and rattle off 10 straight. 

Also, Judge is the man. Hope he continues to be a stud and signs to an NL team for 400 million in the offseason. 

[Tnetennba]

38 minutes ago, wegner said:

Do you get this same impression that I do....the Sox seem to have usually played better when they have a bit of a chip on their shoulder.  Maybe the Donaldson BS along with them being written off some due to the slow start will get them going?

They often do seem to respond well, but  whether it’s sustainable is another story.   Do they come out at home today with the same chip on their shoulders?  We shall see. 

[caulfield12]

20 minutes ago, raBBit said:

What evidence is there that players are routinely alienated? It's really unfortunate this guy is trying to diminish the borderline torture that JR went through to integrate the game. There are more young black kids that want to play baseball because of TA, not the other way around.

Of course the writer doesn't substantiate his claims (there is no evidence).

Tim is a star and absolutely deserves everything he gets but the MLB puts him at the front of their leaguewide promotional materials regularly. Along with Judge, Betts and others. Donaldson is an idiot. TA is a superstar. This writer is a blowhard who doesn't know what he is talking about. Let's hope Sox unite around Timmy and rattle off 10 straight. 

Also, Judge is the man. Hope he continues to be a stud and signs to an NL team for 400 million in the offseason. 

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/9186117/why-african-americans-play-pro-baseball
 

The answer is here, hiding in plain sight.  Some will use the word or term alienation.  Others simply socio-economic disparity.

Whether it’s baseball, golf or tennis, the endemic structural issues are similar.

 

The committee members need to see the industry of youth baseball for what it has become: A business enterprise designed to exclude those without the means and mobility to participate. Over the past 15 to 20 years, the proliferation of pay-for-play teams in youth baseball -- and the parallel proliferation of parents willing to pay for them and coaches willing to cash their checks -- has had more of an impact on African-American participation than anything another sport has to offer.

It's become standard in youth baseball for parents of supposedly "elite" kids to eschew the riffraff of Little League and cast their lot with travel teams that play as many as 130 games a year. Both preposterous and routine, it's based on the questionable theory that the more you pay and the farther you travel, the better you will become. Longtime big leaguer LaTroy Hawkins said it directly: Baseball in the United States has become a sport for the rich.

…..

The sport does move slower, but why does that make it less attractive to black kids than white kids? There are fewer recognizable and highly marketed black stars than in the NFL and NBA, but is that merely a product of the numbers, a self-fulfilling prophecy? The path to the big time is slower, but why don't more people associated with baseball trumpet two facts -- the number of players who get paid is far larger than the NBA and the money is 100 percent more guaranteed than the NFL?

Edited May 24, 2022 by caulfield12

[Big Hurtin]

1 hour ago, Tnetennba said:

Blue checkmarks on Twitter twisting themselves in knots defending Josh freaking Donaldson this morning is something.  

Rule of thumb, when Curt Schilling is on your side, you're probably on the wrong side.

[The Kids Can Play]

I'm glad Judge and Boone called out the loser jerk and racist Donaldson. The fact Donaldson even tried to BS everyone with his warped excuse that it was an inside joke, like there are buddies, is a slap in the face to any baseball fan's intelligence!

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Kyyle23 said:

Nobody was cancelled or threatened with cancellation ? 

These posts are nothing but hilarious.  Yes a one game suspension for being a racist is being "canceled".

[Chick Mercedes]

1 hour ago, Tnetennba said:

If anything the blue checkmarks are coming out of the woodwork to deflect and defend Donaldson’s “intent.”  As if we don’t already have a long documented history of the dude being complete and utter trash person on and off the field.  Telling people just to move on says you’re ok with all of it and just want to sweep it away as if it isn’t a raw nerve for people of the receiving end of demeaning and derisive comments. 

Textbook blue checkmark gaslighting  

Edited May 24, 2022 by Chick Mercedes

[southsider2k5]

41 minutes ago, Hang Wiffem said:

I don't know why I still read comments on social media posts, but I do, but even the first 50 comments on most local news posts about this are variations of "what if Donaldson called himself Babe Ruth and Tim teased him about that? Is that racist??? Should a player be suspended for calling Mike Trout the new Mickey Mantle???"

People are either that dumb or trying so hard to not understand this. Shut up and listen. Be willing to see other perspectives.

Let's be honest here, there is nothing charged about the name "Babe Ruth".  It is a meaningless comparison, and one that is meant to flatter.  If you want a real equal in terms of upending the apple cart, how about if he called him David Duke, or if he really swung for the fences and started calling him Jesus Christ.  Now we are incorporating the whole "sacrifice" and "hated in his time" and "persecuted for his beliefs" while making a comparison.  Donaldson's work wasn't meant to flatter, it was meant to piss TA off, hence it being racially controversial.

[Quin]

21 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Let's be honest here, there is nothing charged about the name "Babe Ruth".  It is a meaningless comparison, and one that is meant to flatter.  If you want a real equal in terms of upending the apple cart, how about if he called him David Duke, or if he really swung for the fences and started calling him Jesus Christ.  Now we are incorporating the whole "sacrifice" and "hated in his time" and "persecuted for his beliefs" while making a comparison.  Donaldson's work wasn't meant to flatter, it was meant to piss TA off, hence it being racially controversial.

The only real baseball analogue for a great, old-time player whose legacy has been overshadowed by racism is Cap Anson.

[BFirebird]

38 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/9186117/why-african-americans-play-pro-baseball
 

The answer is here, hiding in plain sight.  Some will use the word or term alienation.  Others simply socio-economic disparity.

Whether it’s baseball, golf or tennis, the endemic structural issues are similar.

 

The committee members need to see the industry of youth baseball for what it has become: A business enterprise designed to exclude those without the means and mobility to participate. Over the past 15 to 20 years, the proliferation of pay-for-play teams in youth baseball -- and the parallel proliferation of parents willing to pay for them and coaches willing to cash their checks -- has had more of an impact on African-American participation than anything another sport has to offer.

 It's become standard in youth baseball for parents of supposedly "elite" kids to eschew the riffraff of Little League and cast their lot with travel teams that play as many as 130 games a year. Both preposterous and routine, it's based on the questionable theory that the more you pay and the farther you travel, the better you will become. Longtime big leaguer LaTroy Hawkins said it directly: Baseball in the United States has become a sport for the rich.

 

I live in an affluent area (so part of the problem in this case) but this is 100% accurate in my area.  My son is 8 years old and there are 2! travel baseball teams which cost $2K to join.  Not a joke...$2K freaking dollars for 8 year old travel baseball.   I grew up differently from where I am now, so I see and know the differences that are discussed in this article.  A lot of the people that I know here through my son's school and sports don't probably even realize there is a difference because they grew up here or near here. The rich have always had an advantage, but it has definitely made its way into youth sports even more than when I was a kid.

[wrathofhahn]

16 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

These posts are nothing but hilarious.  Yes a one game suspension for being a racist is being "canceled".

Do you even read the posts you write about? I said he should have gotten ten games but at the end of the day the club needs to move on and focus on the rest of the season.

I don't think anyone buys Donaldson excuse but really what else is there to say on the subject? Whether the MLB suspends Donaldson for 10 games or 1 game at the end of the day unless you want him canceled he is going to be playing baseball again at some point. So why continue to beat a dead horse? I hope the club doesn't allow themselves to become distracted by this and continues to their stretch of good baseball. Anderson in particular who is on a tear

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, wrathofhahn said:

Do you even read the posts you write about? I said he should have gotten ten games but at the end of the day the club needs to move on and focus on the rest of the season.

I don't think anyone buys Donaldson excuse but really what else is there to say on the subject? Whether the MLB suspends Donaldson for 10 games or 1 game at the end of the day unless you want him canceled he is going to be playing baseball again at some point. So why continue to beat a dead horse? I hope the club doesn't allow themselves to become distracted by this and continues to their stretch of good baseball. Anderson in particular who is on a tear

The point is very easy and clear.  We don't accept racism in a sport that is almost majority minority players, especially in an enviornment where black players make up a smaller and shrinking segment of players than they have in decades.  In fact black participation in baseball hasn't been this low since segregation was the law.  if you want to grow the game, you need to appeal to all races, and make it clear that all are welcome.

[Dick Allen]

I could only imagine what guys like Donaldson and Schilling would have been like if they played when Jackie Robinson played. What they would have deemed appropriate to say to him would have been vile.

[BFirebird]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The point is very easy and clear.  We don't accept racism in a sport that is almost majority minority players, especially in an enviornment where black players make up a smaller and shrinking segment of players than they have in decades.  In fact black participation in baseball hasn't been this low since segregation was the law.  if you want to grow the game, you need to appeal to all races, and make it clear that all are welcome.

I mean it shouldn't be tolerated in any situation but baby steps.

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

I could only imagine what guys like Donaldson and Schilling would have been like if they played when Jackie Robinson played. What they would have deemed appropriate to say to him would have been vile.

They would be the ones at the lead of every nightmare story that Robinson and players of his era told.  They'd be boycotting and everything else they could do to cancel Jackie and people like him.

[BFirebird]

Just now, Dick Allen said:

I could only imagine what guys like Donaldson and Schilling would have been like if they played when Jackie Robinson played. What they would have deemed appropriate to say to him would have been vile.

Unfortunately it wouldn't probably be too far off from a lot of the league at that point in history.  I just hope that guys like those 2 are the minority of thought among players.

[BFirebird]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

They would be the ones at the lead of every nightmare story that Robinson and players of his era told.  They'd be boycotting and everything else they could do to cancel Jackie and people like him.

No doubt.  Schilling would come up with some sort of conspiracy about the black players to try and keep them out.

[wrathofhahn]

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The point is very easy and clear.  We don't accept racism in a sport that is almost majority minority players, especially in an enviornment where black players make up a smaller and shrinking segment of players than they have in decades.  In fact black participation in baseball hasn't been this low since segregation was the law.  if you want to grow the game, you need to appeal to all races, and make it clear that all are welcome.

So what does that look like to you vis via Donaldson? What is the league supposed to do or the Yankees? Is he supposed to be banned from playing baseball? Or would you have liked to see his suspension longer?

I think the biggest sort of punishment is how he is viewed by fans and his peers. Donaldson was sort of known by people who follow baseball closely as an ahole maybe not racist but at the very least not a good person. So the casual fans opinion on Donaldson will be colored by this and there will be a footnote to his legacy. That is probably bigger than any game ban whether that be 1 or 10 games.

[southsider2k5]

15 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

So what does that look like to you vis via Donaldson? What is the league supposed to do or the Yankees? Is he supposed to be banned from playing baseball? Or would you have liked to see his suspension longer?

I think the biggest sort of punishment is how he is viewed by fans and his peers. Donaldson was sort of known by people who follow baseball closely as an ahole maybe not racist but at the very least not a good person. So the casual fans opinion on Donaldson will be colored by this and there will be a footnote to his legacy. That is probably bigger than any game ban whether that be 1 or 10 games.

The idea that this should not "beat a dead horse" is my main problem here.  There should be powerful disincentives to be a racist in society.  Letting this quietly drop is the absolute worst way to handle this.  It should be more than a "footnote".

Look, anytime the phrase "cancel culture" enters the lexicon here as a negative for social good, I am going to have a problem with it.  Like it or not, "cancel culture" has existed for all of humanity.  When you do something so utterly unpalatable, there is a price to pay for it.  60 years ago, something like being black and eating at a white person's lunch counter would get you "canceled" by the friendly neighborhood watch organization via hanging from a tree, or getting beaten within inches of your life as a "warning".  We cancelled people for wanting equal education, equal workplace opportunity.  We cancelled people for wanting to live in the good and insurable neighborhoods, the ones you were allowed to get mortgages for.  We cancelled people for being the wrong religion by not letting them into the good clubs and organizations.  We cancelled people for wanting to sit to near the front of the bus. We cancelled people for wanting to marry the wrong people, loving the wrong race, same sex, or any other "acceptable" standard.   We have the sane people screaming about "Cancel Culture" out here today wanting to cancel Disney for not being for legalized forms of discrimination, and any member of their own party who isn't acting sufficiently loyal to said party. 

We have used the power of cancellation forever, and it ONLY became a problem when the people of power then became subject to a fraction of the standards that those who were blocked from power had.

Yeah, I am not going to feel sorry for Josh Donaldson getting run through the public wringer for a while, nor will I feel back for the next Josh Donaldson.

[Quin]

15 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I could only imagine what guys like Donaldson and Schilling would have been like if they played when Jackie Robinson played. What they would have deemed appropriate to say to him would have been vile.

I hope no one here has any ancient White Sox love for Jimmy Dykes' White sox tenure as a player and manager in the '30s and '40s, because he was a racist asshole according to Minoso's autobiography / interviews.

[raBBit]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/9186117/why-african-americans-play-pro-baseball
 

The answer is here, hiding in plain sight.  Some will use the word or term alienation.  Others simply socio-economic disparity.

Whether it’s baseball, golf or tennis, the endemic structural issues are similar.

 

The committee members need to see the industry of youth baseball for what it has become: A business enterprise designed to exclude those without the means and mobility to participate. Over the past 15 to 20 years, the proliferation of pay-for-play teams in youth baseball -- and the parallel proliferation of parents willing to pay for them and coaches willing to cash their checks -- has had more of an impact on African-American participation than anything another sport has to offer.

It's become standard in youth baseball for parents of supposedly "elite" kids to eschew the riffraff of Little League and cast their lot with travel teams that play as many as 130 games a year. Both preposterous and routine, it's based on the questionable theory that the more you pay and the farther you travel, the better you will become. Longtime big leaguer LaTroy Hawkins said it directly: Baseball in the United States has become a sport for the rich.

…..

The sport does move slower, but why does that make it less attractive to black kids than white kids? There are fewer recognizable and highly marketed black stars than in the NFL and NBA, but is that merely a product of the numbers, a self-fulfilling prophecy? The path to the big time is slower, but why don't more people associated with baseball trumpet two facts -- the number of players who get paid is far larger than the NBA and the money is 100 percent more guaranteed than the NFL?

So players are being alienated by the league because of an article from 2013 says travel baseball is expensive?  Tim Anderson started playing baseball in high school - how was he alienated from the sport again? Hockey, tennis, golf is far more cost prohibitive than baseball. MLB is roughly 8% black. Do you think any of those sports have black people represented at a rate higher than their demographic share of the population?

What about the top AAU teams traveling around the country? Is that free? Hockey is a rich kid sport. Golf is another level. Baseball isn't in the conversation of exclusivity in comparison to other sports in America. 

I know you're in China so your only understanding of this is biased writers talking about stuff they are only pretending to understand but if you think travel baseball teams are trying to exclude good players you're clueless. These coaches are insane. They're all about their own personal egos unfortunately. But on the bright side, if you are a good player without the means, they will find a way to include you. Also, high school baseball is a couple hundred bucks and must schools will exempt a kid's fee if his family can't afford it.

Also, how do these players from LatAm overcome not being able to afford full time travel teams? These kids are often impoverished far greater than your average poor kid in America. How is pay-for-play keeping them from reaching the heights of the sport? It's not. They are more interested in the sport. In their country it is baseball and soccer. All the biggest stars in their home country come from baseball and soccer. If you're a black kid in America, how many NBA/NFL stars do you have to list before you list the biggest MLB star. There are probably two dozen black basketball players that are bigger stars than any black MLB player. In the NFL, it is the same thing. 

Baseball's popularity has waned in America for decades. The trends towards the percentage of black people in the MLB directly reflects that. The trends of Latin American players in the league also supports that. Baseball is not the most exciting game and a lot of the most exciting athletes are going to find themselves in basketball or football because of that.