Should the sox use kopech and VV as a tandem?

[Dominikk85]

I heard that suggestion on a fantasy baseball a podcast (think it was eno sarris). 

VV was pretty bad so far and kopech might be on a bit of an innings limit. 

Why not use VV as an opener for kopech? Let VV throw all out for 1-2 innings (maybe sometimes 3 when it is going well) and then let kopech come in. 

That way VV can really go all out and maybe do ok-ish (2 innings with 1-2 runs) and then kopech takes over. 

 

Good idea? 

[Chick Mercedes]

No. Either he’s a starter or he isn’t.  He just threw over 90 pitches and 7 innings

[Capital G]

Not sure I see the difference other than messing with Kopech by technically making him a RP.

Does it matter if he throws 90 pitches from inning 1 to 5/6 or if throws 90 pitches from 3 to 8/9?

It's all about limiting his pitches/innings not which innings he's pitching imo. 

[CentralChamps21]

I was thinking more along the lines of using VV and Keuchel as a tandem. Each of them gets 9 batters and then out. Never have to face anybody twice in one game.

[Tnetennba]

Does Kopech fair any better or worse entering in the 3rd inning as opposed to starting the game clean in the 1st?  I’d rather he start games and if he tires or needs to be skipped in the rotation every so often then they can use VV or DK, or ReyLo.  Don’t mess with Kopech when he’s going so well. 

[ChiSox59]

No. Let Kopech be. Just understand he’s not making 30+ starts and will need a maintenance IL stint or two along the way. 

VV should go to the pen once Lance is back. 

[JoeC]

2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

No. Let Kopech be. Just understand he’s not making 30+ starts and will need a maintenance IL stint or two along the way. 

 VV should go to the pen once Lance is back. 

Is it better to shut down Kopech a couple of times for a couple of weeks, or is it better to have him go out every 5 days and only throw 40~50 pitches for those starts?

[ChiSox59]

19 minutes ago, JoeC said:

Is it better to shut down Kopech a couple of times for a couple of weeks, or is it better to have him go out every 5 days and only throw 40~50 pitches for those starts?

Interesting question I’m not sure if the answer to but I’d lean towards shutting him down. He need that arm going full blaze is Sep and Oct. 

I do look forward to the resident negative nancies losing their minds when these IL stints or short starts come though, even though everyone should know it’s coming. 

[HOFHurt35]

It's most likely Jerry's cheap ass isn't cutting bait on Keuchel's dead money, so you're probably looking at a 6 man rotation when Lynn gets back.  

 

[Balta1701]

27 minutes ago, JoeC said:

Is it better to shut down Kopech a couple of times for a couple of weeks, or is it better to have him go out every 5 days and only throw 40~50 pitches for those starts?

I would say shut him down a couple times for 10 day stretches. I'd much rather have his arm feeling normal on pitch 90 rather than getting back into tired at pitch 50 mode like he was last year.

[raBBit]

3 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said:

It's most likely Jerry's cheap ass isn't cutting bait on Keuchel's dead money, so you're probably looking at a 6 man rotation when Lynn gets back.  

 

I don't think so. Keuchel is a sunk cost. Look at how quick they pulled the plug on Danks several years ago and Danks is a great guy who was adored and Keuchel is...Keuchel. Keuchel has obviously been horrible, seems to be a bad clubhouse presence, does not profile well in the pen and we have roster constraints. Banks was just sent down when he has largely done what has been asked of him.

Once Lynn is back:

1 - Gio

2 - Lynn

3 - Cease

4 - Kopech

5 - Cueto

Hopefully roto can stay healthy through June and then acquire some cheap #5 starter type or leverage Velasquez to protect Kopech's usage so he's an option when they're (hopefully) in the playoffs.

[ptatc]

11 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I would say shut him down a couple times for 10 day stretches. I'd much rather have his arm feeling normal on pitch 90 rather than getting back into tired at pitch 50 mode like he was last year.

Either method would work. I think it will come down to Kopech's preference. 

[The Kids Can Play]

Once Lynn comes back, it would be ideal if Velasquez could be consistent and productive like he was in two of his starts. Thus we could have a 6 man rotation to save all the arms. Lynn, Giolito, Cease Kopech, Cueto and Velasquez.

The Sox will monitor Kopech's number of innings heading into the playoffs. I realize Kopech looks strong and durable right now, but the season is early and let's not forget he did not pitch in 2020 and only 69 innings last season. 

As far as Kuechel goes, once Lynn is back, he should never start another game and simply be kept in the bullpen for large blow out losses only. I realize that probably won't happen, but it should. Or better yet, DFA him and eat his money. Oh yeah I'm sorry, I forgot our owner is cheap ass and demented Jerry Reinsdorf and that won't happen!

[ChiSox59]

25 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said:

It's most likely Jerry's cheap ass isn't cutting bait on Keuchel's dead money, so you're probably looking at a 6 man rotation when Lynn gets back.  

 

Keuchel has been retained simply because we needed the rotation depth and we didn't know what Cueto would bring.  Cueto has looked good, but expecting that to continue would be a mistake.  I would guess Dallas is gone once Lynn in back.  He serves no roll and frankly he shouldn't make another start.   We also at least know Davis Martin can make a start or two in pinch. 

As for the $, you're paying him regardless and he really isn't giving the team much of chance to win his starts.  So continuing to run him out there doesn't really solve anything.  

Edited May 24, 2022 by ChiSox59

[ptatc]

4 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Once Lynn comes back, it would be ideal if Velasquez could be consistent and productive like he was in two of his starts. Thus we could have a 6 man rotation to save all the arms. Lynn, Giolito, Cease Kopech, Cueto and Velasquez.

The Sox will monitor Kopech's number of innings heading into the playoffs. I realize Kopech looks strong and durable right now, but the season is early and let's not forget he did not pitch in 2020 and only 69 innings last season. 

As far as Kuechel goes, once Lynn is back, he should never start another game and simply be kept in the bullpen for large blow out losses only. I realize that probably won't happen, but it should. Or better yet, DFA him and eat his money. Oh yeah I'm sorry, I forgot our owner is cheap ass and demented Jerry Reinsdorf and that won't happen!

It will depend on the other starters. Going to a 6 man may throw them off.

Would not be good to throw off the entire rotation for one person.

[The Kids Can Play]

Just now, ptatc said:

It will depend on the other starters. Going to a 6 man may throw them off.

Would not be good to throw off the entire rotation for one person.

It isn't for one person. Lynn is coming off knee surgery. Additionally in the 2021 playoffs, Lynn was hit hard in game 1 with 3.2 innings and 5 runs vs the Astros and looked tired. Giolito was hit hard in game 2 in 4 innings and 4 runs and looked tired. Cease got hit hard in game 3 and only lasted 1.2 innings and 3 runs. 

How are you throwing off the rotation when each starter has an extra day's rest? 

Again the six man rotation can only be effective if Cueto and Velasquez can stay consistently productive. 

Speaking of extra rest, it will be interesting how Cease pitches tonight. He is going on 7 days rest. 

 

[Bob Sacamano]

43 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I would say shut him down a couple times for 10 day stretches. I'd much rather have his arm feeling normal on pitch 90 rather than getting back into tired at pitch 50 mode like he was last year.

Yeah I could see some phantom 10-day IL stretches. Really only miss a start.

[ron883]

5 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

It isn't for one person. Lynn is coming off knee surgery. Additionally in the 2021 playoffs, Lynn was hit hard in game 1 with 3.2 innings and 5 runs vs the Astros and looked tired. Giolito was hit hard in game 2 in 4 innings and 4 runs and looked tired. Cease got hit hard in game 3 and only lasted 1.2 innings and 3 runs. 

How are you throwing off the rotation when each starter has an extra day's rest? 

Again the six man rotation can only be effective if Cueto and Velasquez can stay consistently productive. 

Speaking of extra rest, it will be interesting how Cease pitches tonight. He is going on 7 days rest. 

 

I feel there's a reason 6-man rotations are basically never used. The pitchers don't like it and it doesn't work. 

[The Kids Can Play]

Just now, ron883 said:

I feel there's a reason 6-man rotations are basically never used. The pitchers don't like it and it doesn't work. 

Actually it's not important whether the pitchers like it or not, if it will produce a World Series championship, I think they would all be onboard with it. Furthermore, the fact a 6 man rotation in MLB doesn't work is for one reason only, which is most teams, actually probably all teams, do not have 6 quality starters. The Sox are unique here. 

[FoxForce2]

2 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Actually it's not important whether the pitchers like it or not, if it will produce a World Series championship, I think they would all be onboard with it. Furthermore, the fact a 6 man rotation in MLB doesn't work is for one reason only, which is most teams, actually probably all teams, do not have 6 quality starters. The Sox are unique here. 

If.

Whether or not VV and/or Cueto are quality starters remains to be seen.

[The Kids Can Play]

Just now, FoxForce2 said:

If.

Whether or not VV and/or Cueto are quality starters remains to be seen.

Totally agree with that. Cueto thus far looks the part and maybe VV can be. Regardless of 5 vs 6, the problem down the road will still be managing the innings of Kopech.

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, JoeC said:

Is it better to shut down Kopech a couple of times for a couple of weeks, or is it better to have him go out every 5 days and only throw 40~50 pitches for those starts?

I would be a big fan of using a rolling six man rotation for an extended period of time this season.  Essentially the sixth man would fill in every sixth day for a start and move down the depth line for one or two turns through the rotation, if the Sox play allowed it.

It would look something

Starter 1, Starter 2, Starter 3, Starter 4, Starter 5

Starter 6, Starter 2, Starter 3, Starter 4, Starter 5

1,6,3,4,5

1,2,6,4,5

1,2,3,6,5

1,2,3,4,6

and so on.  Basically if gives everyone an extended break once through the rotation, or about once a month-ish.  I would finish August and September with it if all goes well.

[bmags]

Yeah I think Keuchel Opener would be better just for the lefty/righty velo change mid -game.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

Kopech is as strong and healthy as he'll ever be. As long as he doesn't say he's feeling tired keep doing what they're doing.  

[DoUEvenShift]

4 hours ago, CentralChamps21 said:

I was thinking more along the lines of using VV and Keuchel as a tandem. Each of them gets 9 batters and then out. Never have to face anybody twice in one game.

I love this idea but there is no chance of the Sox ever doing something like this.