When did we take the wrong turn?

[HOFHurt35]

8 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Bingo! 

Additionally when JR did not allow Hahn to spend more money in the offseason, regardless of where our salary total was at...and go get a top FA at 2B, SP or two and RF!

If those were your expectations, then you were being delusional then. 

[35thstreetswarm]

5 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

The answer is simple and swift: when JR decided to hire TLR to manage this team. 

I do agree that JR saddled us with a totally unnecessary handicap in TLR.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

They had a bad draft strategy. They had a number of picks at the top of the draft and used them on low ceiling college corners instead of HS athletic middle players.  They drafted too many redundant players and are now stuck with a slow, unathletic bad defensive team with zero versatility. Hahn's inability to find the right pieces to fill in the many gaps on the roster is also a major problem. 

[The Kids Can Play]

6 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said:

If those were your expectations, then you were being delusional then. 

I wasn't delusional. A lot of posters on this board besides me, were hoping Hahn would make more solid signings. I was hoping our owner wasn't that demented and ignorant. I knew JR was a bad owner but I was hoping he wanted to win another title and maybe help Hahn a little more with flexibility on the payroll. The bottom line is JR has done nothing to help this golden window of opportunity to win a WS title. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Wow where to start? Actually it's really simple.The Sox are more concerned with their investors making money than they are with winning. They spend as little as they can get away with so lots of areas in the organization get neglected and underutilized and underfunded.

Since all that starts at the top the one and only reason is Jerry Reinsdorf. Everything beyond that is all tied directly to him.

[Saufley]

5 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

The answer is simple and swift: when JR decided to hire TLR to manage this team. 

There is still a chance to salvage the season, but sadly I think JR is too stubborn to admit his mistake and make a change.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Saufley

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

How this isn't #1, I will never know.

 I don't care if anyone thinks it's TLR or Hahn , scouting ,development, drafting ,injuries, international money, analytics, or whatever.

I could quote every post in here and question why any part of the organization is bad and the answer is still Jerry Reinsdorf.

[reiks12]

8 minutes ago, Saufley said:

There is still a chance to salvage the season, but sadly I think JR is too stubborn to admit his mistake and make a change.

JR doesnt care, hes a 90 year old money grubber. Its all he cares about and i wouldnt be surprised if he asks to be buried with it all.

[ChiSox59]

12 minutes ago, Saufley said:

There is still a chance to salvage the season, but sadly I think JR is too stubborn to admit his mistake and make a change.

There is really no realistic chance TLR gets fired.  It would (and should) have happened already.  

[chetkincaid]

6 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

The answer is simple and swift: when JR decided to hire TLR to manage this team. 

This right here. The owner usurped the entire front office to bring in his hand picked 70 year old manager. Think about the message that sends to potential free agents. If they have options then why would they want to sign with this organization? I mean who’s really in charge here?

[FoxForce2]

Quality Control. Whether it be LEAN, SIGMA, TQM - whatever. Is there a valid QC process being employed throughout this organization? Does the Mission Statement of the White Sox exist anywhere but in JR's mind? I just don't see much beyond seat-of-the-pants, coming-in-on-a-wing-and-a-prayer styles of management in this outfit. Maybe I'm off base with this - but my intuition is at least reasonably well informed by observation and analysis.

[ThatBallHitDeep_WAYBack]

Re-Signing Leury Garcia and signing JH was a joke when everyone knew an upgrade was needed.

 

Sheets had enough promise last year to think he would take a step forward this year but he has dug his own grave.  He'll be in AAA when Eloy is back.

[Dick Allen]

I almost feel the organization as a whole has determined what they have done is already enough. I'm a partial season ticketholder. I hold a small weekend plan. I used to be a full season guy in premium seats. The way they have just ignored season ticketholders reminds me of 2006k, when as a 15 year season ticketholder, my rep wanted me to move back a couple of rows, just because. The year before, they couldn't do enough for you. There were numerous parties, we got to take batting practice. Now, apparently, they think they must have won again. I am being totally ignored, and most things season ticketholders used to receive, are gone. The players are playing the same way.

[PorkChopExpress]

3 minutes ago, ThatBallHitDeep_WAYBack said:

Re-Signing Leury Garcia and signing JH was a joke when everyone knew an upgrade was needed.

 

Sheets had enough promise last year to think he would take a step forward this year but he has dug his own grave.  He'll be in AAA when Eloy is back.

Re-signing Garcia to a 3-year deal no less.  Was he afraid someone else was going to swoop in and "steal" Garcia?  There is no need to sign a player like Garcia to a multi-year deal.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

9 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I almost feel the organization as a whole has determined what they have done is already enough. I'm a partial season ticketholder. I hold a small weekend plan. I used to be a full season guy in premium seats. The way they have just ignored season ticketholders reminds me of 2006k, when as a 15 year season ticketholder, my rep wanted me to move back a couple of rows, just because. The year before, they couldn't do enough for you. There were numerous parties, we got to take batting practice. Now, apparently, they think they must have won again. I am being totally ignored, and most things season ticketholders used to receive, are gone. The players are playing the same way.

That's terrible.  People talk about  JR's "loyalty" but it's more nepotism and favoritism with him than loyalty.

[fathom]

The team and their future look a whole lot better if Yoan and Eloy were hitting like we thought they were capable.  There’s your 2 and 4 hitters for the next five years.  Having a 300/400/450 switch hitter batting 2nd and a 40 homer slugger batting 4th solves a lot of problems.

[Chimpton]

1 hour ago, Superstar Lamar said:

They squandered years of drafting in the top 10.

They really are only being propped up by the trades of great veterans signed to ridiculously below market contracts.  Two of those veterans ended up winning world series for the teams to which they were traded.  

I forgot about the squandered draft picks. That should definitely have been on the list.

[Harry Chappas]

There has been not one positive move made by this organization after TLR was hired.

The 2020-2021 offseason bore little to no fruit other than Liam, the trade deadline looked good for a fantasy team but those moves imploded, then the 2021-2022 offseason was horrible.

Seems as though once TLR was hired Hahn stopped really caring or not allowed to make unilateral decisions. 

 

 

[Jack Parkman]

1 hour ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

They had a bad draft strategy. They had a number of picks at the top of the draft and used them on low ceiling college corners instead of HS athletic middle players.  They drafted too many redundant players and are now stuck with a slow, unathletic bad defensive team with zero versatility. Hahn's inability to find the right pieces to fill in the many gaps on the roster is also a major problem. 

And I know that you'll agree on this, but they blew it with Crochet. 

[SonofaRoache]

The FO assumes because they put together a talented roster that they were guaranteed multiple championships. They didn't realize other teams were putting talented teams together and would get better themselves. They invest big in short contracts. They invest big with bullpen arms because they know our defense is bad and the offense is still behind. 

[FoxForce2]

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

And I know that you'll agree on this, but they blew it with Crochet. 

But he was Major League Ready! Major League Ready! Major League Ready! Major League Ready!
 

[caulfield12]

46 minutes ago, chetkincaid said:

This right here. The owner usurped the entire front office to bring in his hand picked 77 year old manager. Think about the message that sends to potential free agents. If they have options then why would they want to sign with this organization? I mean who’s really in charge here?

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

11 minutes ago, fathom said:

The team and their future look a whole lot better if Yoan and Eloy were hitting like we thought they were capable.  There’s your 2 and 4 hitters for the next five years.  Having a 300/400/450 switch hitter batting 2nd and a 40 homer slugger batting 4th solves a lot of problems.

And if Yoan was hitting .300 it would be guaranteed he'd have a better slugging than the .450 you listed.

2019 he hit .315 and it was .548 slugging. Remove that one good year and his career slugging of .433, which is pretty bad for a 3rd baseman, goes down to closer to .400

[The Mighty Mite]

1 hour ago, The Kids Can Play said:

I wasn't delusional. A lot of posters on this board besides me, were hoping Hahn would make more solid signings. I was hoping our owner wasn't that demented and ignorant. I knew JR was a bad owner but I was hoping he wanted to win another title and maybe help Hahn a little more with flexibility on the payroll. The bottom line is JR has done nothing to help this golden window of opportunity to win a WS title. 

No you are not delusional, I felt the same way. The handwriting was on the wall in the second half of last year, we needed upgrades at 2B and RF and those needs were not addressed. If the front offtice felt that Harrison and Pollock were the upgrades, it's they that are delusional.

[Dick Allen]

If they were going to go old school for a manager, they should have gone with Buck. Buck is really good for a few years when he get a job then his act gets old. But there is a difference. You saw Buck on TV. He sounds exactly like he did 20 years ago. You watch Tony get interviewed now and compare it to 20 years ago. It's a lot different. I will admit, I wouldn't have wanted Tony 20 years ago either.