LaRussa anthem story making national headlines

[oldsox]

19 hours ago, Paulie4Pres said:

It's more insulting to your son and our veterans how they are treated by this country when they come home. The lack of benefits, terrible VA system, the lack of mental health care... Nobody is insulting active servicemen or women by not standing or taking the field for the anthem. It's a message to the politicians. The same politicians responsible for how vets are treated once they're not useful anymore. The same politicians with the blood of school children on their hands.

Hey Paulie, I must disagree with you on this point.  VA system is very good.  I don't know what your experience with VA is, but mine is excellent.

[elrockinMT]

J agree with Tony LaRussa. He expressed his opinion just like Kapler did and he wasn’t disrespectful about it and respected Kapler’s rights. I think some of the posters on this site could learn something from Tony about respectful and courteous behavior towards others. I am a US Army Vietnam era veteran and the flag is a symbol of honor and sacrifice     to all servicemen and women and I personally don’t believe anyone should be making their symbolic political statements and protests during the National Anthem 

[Texsox]

46 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Can we support the individuals serving while also not condoning the actions of the corrupt imperialist nation that sends young women & men to their deaths for the profit of the elite few?  I, a veteran who served, honor your kid's service, because he probably served for the same reasons I did, but also recognize the very system that exploits our servitude for futile ends and then leaves us to fend for ourselves afterwards, irreparable trauma and all.  Choosing to not stand for the anthem is not an insult to your son's or my service to this dying nation.  We can "support the troops" while conscientiously objecting to the horrors this nation has wrought upon the world we live in.

Absolutely. People pick and choose if and how and where they protest. Protests aren't very effective unless they get people's attention.

If you are trying to pull people together for change I question the effectiveness of alienating people who may be inclined to agree with you. Ask me to carry a sign, write letters, speak out against those horrors then I'm in. If you ask me to sit during the anthem I'm not joining in. Now some folks I agree with on the issue will criticize me, call me old and stupid, because I won't join in that style protest? That seems like a dumb strategy for change.

 

[Tony]

12 minutes ago, elrockinMT said:

J agree with Tony LaRussa. He expressed his opinion just like Kapler did and he wasn’t disrespectful about it and respected Kapler’s rights. I think some of the posters on this site could learn something from Tony about respectful and courteous behavior towards others. I am a US Army Vietnam era veteran and the flag is a symbol of honor and sacrifice     to all servicemen and women and I personally don’t believe anyone should be making their symbolic political statements and protests during the National Anthem 

My father is a veteran and we've discussed this topic multiple times together. He doesn't feel the flag has anything to do with representing our military, but a representation of our entire country...all 50 states.

Having said that, if the flag is a representation of the country as a whole, then it means it also represents Gabe Kapler's right to not stand for a national anthem, and LaRussa's choice to voice his displeasure with it. Both are free to do that, which isn't possible in other places in the world. And one of the reasons for that obviously is what our military has accomplished in battle. I personally happen to side with Kapler, as I've been to different parts of the world and seen firsthand that other cultures aren't currently scared to send their kids to school or believe they may be killed when going to the grocery store. 

You have every right to feel the way you do. It doesn't make you right, my father right, or myself right. 

[Tnetennba]

2 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Absolutely. People pick and choose if and how and where they protest. Protests aren't very effective unless they get people's attention.

If you are trying to pull people together for change I question the effectiveness of alienating people who may be inclined to agree with you. Ask me to carry a sign, write letters, speak out against those horrors then I'm in. If you ask me to sit during the anthem I'm not joining in. Now some folks I agree with on the issue will criticize me, call me old and stupid, because I won't join in that style protest? That seems like a dumb strategy for change.

 

I don’t disagree.  But the notion that not standing for the anthem disrespects the troops is BS to me.  Group shows of nationalism are hollow.  How we as a people group treat veterans both in policy and in the every days says far more than standing or not standing at a sporting event. 

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, oldsox said:

Hey Paulie, I must disagree with you on this point.  VA system is very good.  I don't know what your experience with VA is, but mine is excellent.

It pretty well killed my father and a ton of other service members and vets through organized and international negligence.   It pretended things like radiation sicknesses and Agent Orange didn’t exist so they wouldn't have to treat people for them.  My dad was ignored for his Agent Orange related illnesses until the mid 80s, and then was killed by an aggressive Luekemia related to Orange.  Currently VA wait times are artificially kept down by either disallowimg visits for certain illnesses or just not allowing people to schedule at all to keep them from being counted.

If the VA were a private system they would have beed sued out of existence and closed decades ago.

[greg775]

15 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

In China if you did what Kapler did you would be summarily sent to prison.

I wish people who hate on the USA daily would read this sentence. The U.S. gets criticized so much. Today I would like to say thank you to the families of all our soldiers who didn't come home from all the various wars and conflicts. Truly thank them.

[Texsox]

1 hour ago, Tnetennba said:

I don’t disagree.  But the notion that not standing for the anthem disrespects the troops is BS to me.  Group shows of nationalism are hollow.  How we as a people group treat veterans both in policy and in the every days says far more than standing or not standing at a sporting event. 

But group anti nationalism protests aren't hollow? We do agree. The lack of protests for the way we treat millions of good veterans says far more than sitting because of hundreds or thousands bad ones. 

[Kyyle23]

I don't think I have ever read a good review for the VA but here we are.

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, greg775 said:

I wish people who hate on the USA daily would read this sentence. The U.S. gets criticized so much. Today I would like to say thank you to the families of all our soldiers who didn't come home from all the various wars and conflicts. Truly thank them.

If you knew a family member or friend killed in Uvalde or Buffalo, wouldn’t you consider the shooters and/or the easy access to assault weapons more the enemy of the US than those who find it unacceptable?

I mean, how are we helping our country when we now want even pregnant teenagers to still give birth to babies in the cases of rape or incest, but we can’t even provide them baby formula?   Is pointing that out somehow unpatriotic or anti-American?

 

Do we really want a country where even ten year old fifth graders are threatening schools (see story below)?  That would have been simply inconceivable in the 1980's, when we only worried about razor blades in Halloween caramel apples and Tylenol that was tampered with...

https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-fifth-grader-arrested-threatening-140312160.html

Edited May 30, 2022 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

2 hours ago, greg775 said:

I wish people who hate on the USA daily would read this sentence. The U.S. gets criticized so much. Today I would like to say thank you to the families of all our soldiers who didn't come home from all the various wars and conflicts. Truly thank them.

The problem is the people who refer to themselves as patriots think what Kapler is doing should be a jailable offense.

I don't even know why anyone would even think it's a big deal. Go to a game and check the tens during the anthem. There are more than a coupleof personnel not on the field or at the top step of the dugout. If Kapler didn't mention he was doing this, the people complaining would never have noticed.

[caulfield12]

15 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

The problem is the people who refer to themselves as patriots think what Kapler is doing should be a jailable offense.

I don't even know why anyone would even think it's a big deal. Go to a game and check the tens during the anthem. There are more than a coupleof personnel not on the field or at the top step of the dugout. If Kapler didn't mention he was doing this, the people complaining would never have noticed.

Half the coaching staff are in and out of the clubhouse.  Only noticeable for OD, All Star Game, playoffs, etc.

[harkness99]

north korea is great at flag saluting and standing at attention

 

if you dont they will come knocking on your door.

[Tnetennba]

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

But group anti nationalism protests aren't hollow? We do agree. The lack of protests for the way we treat millions of good veterans says far more than sitting because of hundreds or thousands bad ones. 

I’m critiquing the forced nationalism of standing for the anthem, and how this country treats its veterans after they return from pointless skirmishes abroad.  I am in no way criticizing those who have served.  This nation is incredibly flawed, despite how horrible other nations are.  I’m not overly interested in arguing with you, but by all means twist what I’m saying for your own gratification.  

Peace. 

[Texsox]

1 hour ago, Tnetennba said:

I’m critiquing the forced nationalism of standing for the anthem, and how this country treats its veterans after they return from pointless skirmishes abroad.  I am in no way criticizing those who have served.  This nation is incredibly flawed, despite how horrible other nations are.  I’m not overly interested in arguing with you, but by all means twist what I’m saying for your own gratification.  

Peace. 

I don't believe I suggested you should be forced to stand anymore than I should be forced to sit. 

[greg775]

2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

If you knew a family member or friend killed in Uvalde or Buffalo, wouldn’t you consider the shooters and/or the easy access to assault weapons more the enemy of the US than those who find it unacceptable?

I mean, how are we helping our country when we now want even pregnant teenagers to still give birth to babies in the cases of rape or incest, but we can’t even provide them baby formula?   Is pointing that out somehow unpatriotic or anti-American?

 

Do we really want a country where even ten year old fifth graders are threatening schools (see story below)?  That would have been simply inconceivable in the 1980's, when we only worried about razor blades in Halloween caramel apples and Tylenol that was tampered with...

https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-fifth-grader-arrested-threatening-140312160.html

Good post. Thought provoking questions. Where I get frustrated is many loudmouths think there's just one side to every issue. The banning of assault weapons makes a ton of sense. But as somebody willing to listen to both sides, I do think Americans should be armed and need to be armed to protect themselves against the government (if it gets that far ever; I don't trust govt officials cept for a handful) and against carjackers, home invaders.

Your second point: I am in favor of women having total control of their own bodies and them deciding to abort yet I hear those who don't want babies aborted after a certain date. I shudder thinking about what that even suggests about a 7 month old. Ultimately I trust women to make the right calls bout their own bodies.

In short I feel there are two sides to almost every issue. In terms of assault weapons, yes, both sides should rid us of them yet it would be nice if at the same time we arrested (charged and jailed) gang members who WILL keep their assault weapons. Cmon folks if we are gonna ban them (and we should IMO) we better allow our cops to stop the bad guys from keeping and shooting theirs.

Always remember before one screams at somebody for having an opinion different from yours (not directed at caulfield who I enjoy on here and respect). You are not 100 percent correct just cause it's your opinion. Peace.

Edited May 30, 2022 by greg775

[caulfield12]

If every member of Congress sent their son or daughter into military for 12-18 months like in South Korea...that's just the thing though, it's not about universally shared sacrifice, but about scoring political points.  If I wear an American flag shirt hat or pin everyday, does that make me more of a patriot than those protesting for better public policies?

[caulfield12]

11 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Good post. Thought provoking questions. Where I get frustrated is many loudmouths think there's just one side to every issue. The banning of assault weapons makes a ton of sense. But as somebody willing to listen to both sides, I do think Americans should be armed and need to be armed to protect themselves against the government (if it gets that far ever; I don't trust govt officials cept for a handful) and against carjackers, home invaders.

Your second point: I am in favor of women having total control of their own bodies and them deciding to abort yet I hear those who don't want babies aborted after a certain date. I shudder thinking about what that even suggests about a 7 month old. Ultimately I trust women to make the right calls bout their own bodies.

In short I feel there are two sides to almost every issue. In terms of assault weapons, yes, both sides should rid us of them yet it would be nice if at the same time we arrested (charged and jailed) gang members who WILL keep their assault weapons. Cmon folks if we are gonna ban them (and we should IMO) we better allow our cops to stop the bad guys from keeping and shooting theirs.

Always remember before one screams at somebody for having an opinion different from yours (not directed at caulfield who I enjoy on here and respect). You are not 100 percent correct just cause it's your opinion. Peace.

Here's the thing, they had a mass shooting in the UK and pretty much put a stop to it within a couple of years.  It's not a notable problem in the EU or even "violent" countries like Colombia.

What I can't wrap my head around is how Canada has so many more guns/hunting rifles than the US, per capita, but not even 1/10th the amount of gun violence.  We are not even to June but already 30 mass school shootings.

America is the only country where citizens have to be protected from the tyranny of their own government?  That doesn't say much for the country and it's leaders.

Here in China, and most countries with authoritarian dictatorships, citizens are never allowed guns.  At worst, you have mass knifings at elementary schools, but those are much harder to pull off before being stopped.

Edited May 30, 2022 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/29/sport/tony-la-russa-gabe-kapler-protest-spt-intl/index.html

White Sox make the front page of CNN.

Don't think that has happened before in the LaRussa Era.   TA7 didn't even make it last week.

In fact, can't remember it ever happening.

[ron883]

54 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/29/sport/tony-la-russa-gabe-kapler-protest-spt-intl/index.html

White Sox make the front page of CNN.

Don't think that has happened before in the LaRussa Era.   TA7 didn't even make it last week.

In fact, can't remember it ever happening.

Nobody should be looking to any of the big 3 cable news networks for legitimate news.

Edited May 31, 2022 by ron883

[greg775]

3 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

 If I wear an American flag shirt hat or pin everyday, does that make me more of a patriot than those protesting for better public policies?

You ask decent questions. Wearing a pin doesn't make one a better patriot IF the protester is protesting peacefully and not causing disruption of traffic , injury to onlookerss or destruction of property. If the person wearing the pin or flag shirt is screaming at others and/or attacking them, that person is no patriot. Ditto the protestor. Once you bash a window you should be in jail not the protestor hall of fame.

Edited May 31, 2022 by greg775

[greg775]

1 hour ago, ron883 said:

Nobody should be looking to any of the big 3 cable news networks for legitimate news.

Ron, at least that particular NEWS STORY (not an editorial) was not full of opinion, bias, agenda driven stuff. Unless I read wrong it seemed fairly cut and dried giving facts not opinion in a news story. Yay.

Edited May 31, 2022 by greg775

[greg775]

3 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Here's the thing, they had a mass shooting in the UK and pretty much put a stop to it within a couple of years.  It's not a notable problem in the EU or even "violent" countries like Colombia.

What I can't wrap my head around is how Canada has so many more guns/hunting rifles than the US, per capita, but not even 1/10th the amount of gun violence.  We are not even to June but already 30 mass school shootings.

America is the only country where citizens have to be protected from the tyranny of their own government?  That doesn't say much for the country and it's leaders.

 Here in China, and most countries with authoritarian dictatorships, citizens are never allowed guns.  At worst, you have mass knifings at elementary schools, but those are much harder to pull off before being stopped.

-- Not sure where our mental illness situation ranks compared to Europe, Canada, Did u see the murderer in Texas drove around with dead cats in his car? The USA has a lot of crazy people out there taking a LOT of drugs. Not sure where we rank in terms of insane people on drugs but we have our share. We need to somehow help the lonely, the outcast kids, the persecuted kids before they turn into mass shooters. Mental health. Parental supervision/help.

--  You said: "America is the only country where citizens have to be protected from the tyranny of their own government?  That doesn't say much for the country and it's leaders."

It is sad but a fact. Many/most? DA's in many states won't prosecute violent criminals now. That means there's so much more potential violence out there anyday. There always will be bad guys no matter what the far far lefties say. If the government isn't going to help protect the law abiding citizens, by gosh, yes, they must be armed to protect themselves and their families. It's a bad thing in America, yes, but some of the decisions made by DAs and politicians make law abiding citizens need their protection/guns. Do u agree with this assertion caulfield, tex?

https://nypost.com/2022/05/30/new-video-shows-texas-school-shooter-salvador-ramos-holding-bag-of-dead-cats/

Edited May 31, 2022 by greg775

[caulfield12]

42 minutes ago, greg775 said:

-- Not sure where our mental illness situation ranks compared to Europe, Canada, Did u see the murderer in Texas drove around with dead cats in his car? The USA has a lot of crazy people out there taking a LOT of drugs. Not sure where we rank in terms of insane people on drugs but we have our share. We need to somehow help the lonely, the outcast kids, the persecuted kids before they turn into mass shooters. Mental health. Parental supervision/help.

--  You said: "America is the only country where citizens have to be protected from the tyranny of their own government?  That doesn't say much for the country and it's leaders."

It is sad but a fact. Many/most? DA's in many states won't prosecute violent criminals now. That means there's so much more potential violence out there anyday. There always will be bad guys no matter what the far far lefties say. If the government isn't going to help protect the law abiding citizens, by gosh, yes, they must be armed to protect themselves and their families. It's a bad thing in America, yes, but some of the decisions made by DAs and politicians make law abiding citizens need their protection/guns. Do u agree with this assertion caulfield, tex?

https://nypost.com/2022/05/30/new-video-shows-texas-school-shooter-salvador-ramos-holding-bag-of-dead-cats/

We will certainly see next January when the Republicans control every branch of the US government but executive, and a weakened likely lame duck one at that.  It doesn't matter whether I agree with you or not, the die is already cast.   And the gun control votes in terms of cross-sectional American public opinion polling are a lot closer to 50/50 than the abortion rights issue (70/30 against getting rid of Roe v. Wade depending on survey phrasing).

The only interesting developments to watch will be if DeSantis can actually wrest the nomination from Trump and if the Dems can field a single viable presidential contender in 2024.

 

 

 

[Paulie4Pres]

11 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

Can we support the individuals serving while also not condoning the actions of the corrupt imperialist nation that sends young women & men to their deaths for the profit of the elite few?  I, a veteran who served, honor your kid's service, because he probably served for the same reasons I did, but also recognize the very system that exploits our servitude for futile ends and then leaves us to fend for ourselves afterwards, irreparable trauma and all.  Choosing to not stand for the anthem is not an insult to your son's or my service to this dying nation.  We can "support the troops" while conscientiously objecting to the horrors this nation has wrought upon the world we live in.

Put it much better than I could.