Where are Hahn and KW?

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

12 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

The hitting and defense have little to do with TLR. His decision making with lineups, the bullpen, rotation usage, and strategy have been bad. But players not living up to their potential isn't His fault. 

It’s a managers job to get the most of out his players. LaRussa is a walking corpse. Do you think that man is really doing his best to motivate this team?

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, Quin said:

Look man, if @Balta1701 is blaming someone more than Rick Hahn, that means he's feeling real strongly about it.

Also, managing a lineup, bullpen, rotation, and strategy is exactly how you help players live up to their potential. They're not robots out there - they need to be put in positions to succeed. 

It’s a mix of both bad offseason moves and bad managing.

But seriously, that first 8 game losing streak where half the team looked like they forgot what a glove was for and Leury started hitting 2nd? Something happened internally there and I still have no idea what it was.

[greg775]

4 hours ago, CentralChamps21 said:

We all know whatever they say will just be a company line, but actually showing up and saying something at least lets fans know that they recognize that things aren't going well.

It's tough like peeps have said on here cause KW and Hahn probably blame this mess on Tony and they didn't want him. So they can't say anything about that. It's pretty apparent by now Tony is part of the problem. Although acquiring Harrison and Pollock alone should be enough to get Hahn fired.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

2 hours ago, flavum said:

You know what sucks? This team could very well get a little healthier, play semi-good baseball in July and August by beating division teams, and win this weak ass division with 85-87 wins. Now, what’s wrong with that? I’ll tell you…

They’ll play the “nobody believed in us” card while they put the Division Champions hats and shirts on, and then immediately lose 2 out of 3 at home, or at the most, make it to the division series and go out quietly like last year. At that point, it’ll be, “the postseason is a crapshoot, and we’re proud of how this team bounced back in the second half”.

Same shit, different year. And on to more roster moves that don’t put the Sox over the top in 2023. 

(If this doesn’t happen, and they actually make the ALCS this year, I will bump this and call myself out)
 

 

I'll be shocked (pleasantly shocked) if they win more than 83 games this season.

[greg775]

2 hours ago, flavum said:

You know what sucks? This team could very well get a little healthier, play semi-good baseball in July and August by beating division teams, and win this weak ass division with 85-87 wins. Now, what’s wrong with that? I’ll tell you…

Good post. I don't see Sox doing much against teams in the division, though. Case in point Kansas City. One of the worst teams in Royals history and Sox have looked just as bad as KC in head to head matchups. This Sox team doesn't have it. Maybe if Tony stepped down and some young manager came aboard and the defense got better and .... ah forget it. Not gonna happen this year. Too many holes in the team.

[CentralChamps21]

11 minutes ago, greg775 said:

It's tough like peeps have said on here cause KW and Hahn probably blame this mess on Tony and they didn't want him. So they can't say anything about that. It's pretty apparent by now Tony is part of the problem. Although acquiring Harrison and Pollock alone should be enough to get Hahn fired.

Pollock was the cost of trading away Kimbrel and freeing up as much salary as possible, but overpaying Leury, signing Harrison and failing to address LH hitting and 5th starter were awful. What we don't know is how much say Hahn had compared to Tony.

[SonofaRoache]

59 minutes ago, Quin said:

Look man, if @Balta1701 is blaming someone more than Rick Hahn, that means he's feeling real strongly about it.

Also, managing a lineup, bullpen, rotation, and strategy is exactly how you help players live up to their potential. They're not robots out there - they need to be put in positions to succeed. 

I don't know about that. Guys get paid to hit baseballs and field baseballs. Regardless of your manager you should be able to hold your own if you are a good player. 

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, SonofaRoache said:

I don't know about that. Guys get paid to hit baseballs and field baseballs. Regardless of your manager you should be able to hold your own if you are a good player. 

People get paid to do a lot of things.  Shitty bosses have an effect on the workplace,  That's true if it is an office or a baseball field.

[SonofaRoache]

15 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

People get paid to do a lot of things.  Shitty bosses have an effect on the workplace,  That's true if it is an office or a baseball field.

I agree with this but to what extent? Grandal has been terrible but how is that TLR's fault? 

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

I agree with this but to what extent? Grandal has been terrible but how is that TLR's fault? 

If it was a couple of guys, sure.  But when the whole team regresses at once, and when guys don't even seem interested anymore, that's a red flag.

[Tnetennba]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

If it was a couple of guys, sure.  But when the whole team regresses at once, and when guys don't even seem interested anymore, that's a red flag.

I still think that 8 game losing streak was the damn breaking in the clubhouse.  Guys just look disinterested or checked out half the time going through the motions.  TLR lost the team early this year and there is no coming back from that.

[Soxfest]

KW only wants to talk when he can take credit.

[Snopek]

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

If it was a couple of guys, sure.  But when the whole team regresses at once, and when guys don't even seem interested anymore, that's a red flag.

If I squint I can kind of see it as a "chicken or the egg" scenario. Are they disinterested because they are struggling and the team is losing or are they struggling because they are disinterested? I don't know how you could really know for sure. 

I don't think it's THAT farfetched to think that age might have caught up to some guys, while others were overvalued or just not very good in the first place.

With all of that being said, I have no problem saying that TLR is the biggest problem of many that this team has. If there was one reasonable change to make that could potentially turn the team around, it's without a doubt replacing the manager.

[Texsox]

4 hours ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

It’s a managers job to get the most of out his players. LaRussa is a walking corpse. Do you think that man is really doing his best to motivate this team?

Do you really think grown men need a rah rah speech? That shit is for movies. They need to their damn job.  Everything this organization has to say is on the field sucking ass. They can't hit, they can't stop swinging at first pitches, they can't run bases, they can't hold the rare lead they get. But the right golden words from a manager will change everything. 

Changing the manager is a nice start but sending the rest of the roster packing and waiting another ten years is the reality. 

 

[caulfield12]

15 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Do you really think grown men need a rah rah speech? That shit is for movies. They need to their damn job.  Everything this organization has to say is on the field sucking ass. They can't hit, they can't stop swinging at first pitches, they can't run bases, they can't hold the rare lead they get. But the right golden words from a manager will change everything. 

Changing the manager is a nice start but sending the rest of the roster packing and waiting another ten years is the reality. 

 

With that kind of time horizon, only ownership change and/or leaving Chicago will work.

[Tnetennba]

31 minutes ago, Snopek said:

If I squint I can kind of see it as a "chicken or the egg" scenario. Are they disinterested because they are struggling and the team is losing or are they struggling because they are disinterested? I don't know how you could really know for sure. 

I don't think it's THAT farfetched to think that age might have caught up to some guys, while others were overvalued or just not very good in the first place.

With all of that being said, I have no problem saying that TLR is the biggest problem of many that this team has. If there was one reasonable change to make that could potentially turn the team around, it's without a doubt replacing the manager.

Manager and a modern hitting coach to try to salvage some of these swings/approaches.  Before they go jettisoning talent they have to try a new voice on both fronts. 

[Balta1701]

50 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Manager and a modern hitting coach to try to salvage some of these swings/approaches.  Before they go jettisoning talent they have to try a new voice on both fronts. 

I haven’t done this in a while and the game is already a 4 run Rays lead, so - where do the White Sox rank in launch angle every season of the statcast era:

2015: 28th
2016: 22nd
2017: 21st
2018: 21st
2019: 28th
2020: 25th
2021: 28th
2022: 24th

[Tnetennba]

14 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I haven’t done this in a while and the game is already a 4 run Rays lead, so - where do the White Sox rank in launch angle every season of the statcast era:

2015: 28th
2016: 22nd
2017: 21st
2018: 21st
2019: 28th
2020: 25th
2021: 28th
2022: 24th

Woof

[GradMc]

21 hours ago, chetkincaid said:

Neither of them were on board with this managerial hire. They probably figure that JR made his bed so he can lay in it. Let him be out in front explaining why the team and organization is a dumpster fire.

I have my issues with Kenny-Hahn but they had nothing to do with the TLR hire.

I agree they are just letting Reinsdorf stew in his juices.

Perhaps this dumpster fire of a season will force Reinsdorf to do something I was hoping for after the 2005 parade:  SELL HIGH off his one-hit wonder.

 

 

Edited June 4, 2022 by GradMc

[pcq]

I believe it's time to replace Grandal and Sheets imminently. No more waiting. 

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, GradMc said:

I have my issues with Kenny-Hahn but they had nothing to do with the TLR hire.

I agree they are just letting Reinsdorf stew in his juices.

Perhaps this dumpster fire of a season will force Reinsdorf to do something I was hoping for after the 2005 parade:  SELL HIGH off his one-hit wonder.

 

 

Oh who?

Giolito Graveman Cueto Bummer Abreu are the only ones with any positive trade value besides the five untradeable core names.

[oldsox]

Hahn and KW are invisible, or so it seems.

[Chick Mercedes]

Fumny thing is, JR let these guys try this new thpe build despite being up there in age. Said he did it for the fans and the long term. There were a few years of losing invested  to get to this team. That will make weak -willed people question what they are doing. I’m sorry this didn’t work yet, but please don’t go back to acquiring the Todd Fraziers and Adam LaRoaches and surrounding them with cheap pluggers. As bad as this is to watch, building upside teams with prospects is way more fun than grinding with teams of the past. Hahn and Kenny Williams seem like this is not who they really are though. They tried it like a second marriage to different type of woman that is totally incompatible. They all gots ta go. And JR has to stay worried about the long term future. Stay patient. But get these guys outa here, they can’t take the final steps Under all this pressure to win quick. They will make bad decisions.

[Chick Mercedes]

Although I grant  you that JR had an relapse by hiring Tony. Hopefully he stops meddling with the baseball decisions 

[mmmmmbeeer]

16 hours ago, Texsox said:

Do you really think grown men need a rah rah speech? That shit is for movies. They need to their damn job.  Everything this organization has to say is on the field sucking ass. They can't hit, they can't stop swinging at first pitches, they can't run bases, they can't hold the rare lead they get. But the right golden words from a manager will change everything. 

Changing the manager is a nice start but sending the rest of the roster packing and waiting another ten years is the reality. 

 

Strongly disagree.  As anyone who has had the misfortune to work under poor leadership will attest, you just go through the motions to earn your paycheck.  There's little hope of success, each step forward leads to two steps back due to poor leadership decisions, there's absolutely no 'fun' being had, little camaraderie except to b**** and moan about how bad the leadership is, and the team leaders themselves begin to feel powerless (be it an office lead or, in Sox terms, guys like Abreu and TA).  

Management sets the tone for the entire team.  It's often said how teams take on the personalities of their managers...does this look like a team being led by an 80yo incorrigible asshole?  It sure does to me.

These players KNOW baseball.  If you and I can sit at home, with nothing but time invested in this franchise, and get pissed off at some of the unbelievably bad decisions being made with the lineup card, the bullpen, pinch hitting, etc., how do you think the actual players on the field are feeling about those decisions?  They put in the effort but, time and again, their own manager changes Ws to Ls.  Why even try?  Why put in extra effort?  Why put in the time and energy to be hyper-focused when they believe, truly believe, their manager will do something idiotic to render their efforts moot?  Professionalism only goes so far....