Yoan Moncada seven years ago

[caulfield12]

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/cuban-super-prospect-yoan-moncada-agrees-to-sign-with-red-sox-150807830.html

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/yoan-moncadas-twinkie-obsession-is-the-stuff-of-legend-230537289.html

Edited June 9, 2022 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/18975183/chicago-white-sox-prospect-yoan-moncada-prepping-major-league-debut

"You're Sure You're Ready for This?"

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/the-education-of-yoan-moncada-201005541.html  Jeff Passan

Edited June 9, 2022 by caulfield12

[Spicy gar]

Who cares?

[caulfield12]

Just a general what the heck went wrong thread...to supplement our existing one that's all Moncada 24 hours per day 7 days a week.

Theories?

Too much money too soon?

Twinkies?

Too many off field distractions like reggaeton productions?

Miami lifestyle?

Guaranteed contracts?

Nobody to push him...complacency?

Long Covid?

No rapport with TLR compared to Renteria...all the Latin players in general not at ease in clubhouse?

Humidors ... new baseballs sapped power?

Edited June 9, 2022 by caulfield12

[Jack Parkman]

3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Just a general what the heck went wrong thread?

Theories?

Too much money too soon?

Twinkies?

Too many off field distractions like reggaeton productions?

Miami lifestyle?

Guaranteed contracts?

Nobody to push him...complacency?

Long Covid?

No rapport with TLR compared to Renteria...all the Latin players in general not at ease in clubhouse?

He's been historically bad this year; worse than he was as a rookie. Has been solid for 3 years running. Almost has to be injured. No other plausible explanation. 

If he's not injured, we have to hope he finds it again. 

Edited June 9, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[caulfield12]

Whether that's related to Long Covid or not....lower leg, base/foundation, quads, strength is just not there to drive the ball.

Too stiff/muscular in the upper body?

Fast twitch muscles?

[Jack Parkman]

10 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Whether that's related to Long Covid or not....lower leg, base/foundation, quads, strength is just not there to drive the ball.

Too stiff/muscular in the upper body?

Fast twitch muscles?

I think his issue is lower body related. Power comes from the legs and hip rotation. 

Just one man's opinion. 

Edited June 9, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[Chimpton]

51 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I think his issue is lower body related. Power comes from the legs and hip rotation. 

Just one man's opinion. 

His lower body never seems to hinder his dance moves!

[caulfield12]

https://southsideshowdown.com/2022/02/08/one-thing-yoan-moncada-get-better/
 

It is all too logical.  It has to be the combination of oblique not healing 100% combined with not having his legs feeling right.  No hitter can overcome both those simultaneously, plus Long Covid.

Just shut him down until he’s 100%.  Same with Jimenez and Anderson as well, for that matter.

[Dominikk85]

I'm surprised the issue is the power. 

If he "failed" I thought it would have been excessive strikeouts but while he is not a low K guy his K rate generally has been manageable at mid to high 20s and usually with a good walk rate (not this year so far). 

 

But the power really apart from 2019 generally has been a bit disappointing for a guy advertised with 70 power.

 

He certainly is better than this year and this is likely due to physical problems but even if you throw out this year he has been more of an average power guy (about mid 100s ISO). 

I wonder what went wrong there. If you had told me 5 years that he is a guy striking out 35% of the time and thus failing I would have believed it but I would have guessed if he keeps his plate discipline in check he would be a 40 bomb guy. 

I guess that won't happen so I just hope he gets back to at least 2021 level, then he is a good player albeit not a superstar like people hoped for. 

 

[TheFutureIsNear]

Maybe I’m naive, but I’m not as doom and gloom on Yoan as most (all?) seem to be. I think it’s entirely plausible that the lockout + his early season injury and we are seeing Spring Training version of Yoan. 81 AB’s isn’t enough for me to throw up the red flag yet.

 

[reiks12]

hes just much weaker. His EV and hardhit numbers are nowhere close to his 2019 levels. On top of him being weaker, whatever Menechino has been working with him on has led him to an increasing groundball%. 10% more groundballs this season. Hes not even hitting linedrives either. Its either in the ground or a popout.

[reiks12]

I will say Moncada has been the biggest disappointment during this whole Menechino era for me, his 2019 was absurd and what I was hoping to see for the rest of his prime years. If he was even close to those numbers he would have been so fun to watch. Easily could have been the most marketable White Sox in recent memory. 

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

There’s very clearly a change in team philosophy this year in regards to approach and it has broken the majority of these players. It’s like the Sox decided they wanted to be like the Astros who jumped all over Sox pitching in the playoffs with their good contact and it’s blown up in their face. I don’t see how Mennichino hasn’t been relieved of his duties. Regardless of how you feel about hitting coaches in general, SOMEONE has to be held accountable.
 

Yoan is an enigma. I can’t buy into him as a bust or lost cause just yet because it is remarkable how bad he’s been this season - it shouldn’t even be possible.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, reiks12 said:

I will say Moncada has been the biggest disappointment during this whole Menechino era for me, his 2019 was absurd and what I was hoping to see for the rest of his prime years. If he was even close to those numbers he would have been so fun to watch. Easily could have been the most marketable White Sox in recent memory. 

It's hard not to say negative things about him because of all the money he makes while making music videos and hearing reports he's partying in the middle of the pandemic in a seedy area of Indiana and exposing his family to Covid. I mean sure Long Covid and minor injuries could be the real problem but get the guy a head to toe physical , check his lung capacity, MRI his whole body, check his eyesight. I mean holy hell he's playing like he's near retirement age.

[caulfield12]

9 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It's hard not to say negative things about him because of all the money he makes while making music videos and hearing reports he's partying in the middle of the pandemic in a seedy area of Indiana and exposing his family to Covid. I mean sure Long Covid and minor injuries could be the real problem but get the guy a head to toe physical , check his lung capacity, MRI his whole body, check his eyesight. I mean holy hell he's playing like he's near retirement age.

What happened between Charlotte and Chicago?

https://www.mlb.com/news/yoan-moncada-releases-music-video

 

Moncada told Bleacher Report in remarks translated from Spanish that his goals for 2016 are simple. 

"Steal 100 bases and keep focused on reaching the big leagues."

 

FORT MYERS, Fla. — It's Yoan Moncada's turn.

After 90 minutes of fielding drills, the prospect one major league scout labeled "the closest thing to [Mike] Trout I've seen," per Yahoo Sports' Jeff Passan, finally gets to take batting practice.

With a chiseled, 6'2", 205-pound frame that Red Sox pitcher Joe Kelly likened to a "friggin' inside linebacker," Moncada divides his cuts evenly between the right and left side of the plate. It's hard to see a weak side in his swing or when contact is made. The approach is a model of controlled anger. It is as fierce as it is fluid.

There are no BP home runs this day, but steady line drives to left, center and right from both sides of the plate give onlookers a taste of what they came to see.

…..

"I'm not sure we've ever had someone quite like him physically in our system," said general manager Mike Hazen, who has worked with the Red Sox since 2006. "Bo Jackson was a guy built that way. Of course, he played football, too. But no one we've had in our system."

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2624605-red-sox-cuban-phenom-yoan-moncada-more-than-flashy-cars-hype-and-muscles

Edited June 9, 2022 by caulfield12

[reiks12]

17 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It's hard not to say negative things about him because of all the money he makes while making music videos and hearing reports he's partying in the middle of the pandemic in a seedy area of Indiana and exposing his family to Covid. I mean sure Long Covid and minor injuries could be the real problem but get the guy a head to toe physical , check his lung capacity, MRI his whole body, check his eyesight. I mean holy hell he's playing like he's near retirement age.

6mph average decrease from 2019, even Albert Pujols from age 35 to 42 hasnt seen a decrease in exit velocity. 

Is there ANY other player in baseball that has seen a hit to their strength like this because of Covid? 

https://www.mlb.com/news/yoan-moncada-worked-on-improving-at-the-plate-c301379800

You can't tell me Moncada "doesnt care" after reading that, i think his mental is absolutely broken.

I strongly feel that Menechino's gameplan is destroying these hitters, the "dont do too much" mindset is exactly the opposite of what Moncada did in 2019. 

https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/white-sox/ct-spt-white-sox-yoan-moncada-top-prospects-sullivan-20180127-story.html

Quote

"Hitting coach Todd Steverson said it wasn’t a matter of making mechanical adjustments. At some point in late August, Steverson said he simply told Moncada to “be freer in terms of mindset.”"

Am I defending Steverson? No. But The above quote just shows how much Moncada gets lost in his head. You look at his atbats now and you just cant say hes free in his mindset. Hes back to that. Hes thinking too much. That is probably why his power is gone, because hes "just trying to make good contact", just what Menechino wants. Look at his atbats, hes trying to beat the shift, trying to place the ball where defenders arent. In 2019 he just mashed, probably didnt think about that at all. Id love to see someone break down his 2019 approach vs 2020-2022.

Edited June 9, 2022 by reiks12

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 minute ago, reiks12 said:

6mph average decrease from 2019, even Albert Pujols from age 35 to 42 hasnt seen a decrease in exit velocity. 

Is there ANY other player in baseball that has seen a hit to their strength like this because of Covid? 

https://www.mlb.com/news/yoan-moncada-worked-on-improving-at-the-plate-c301379800

You can't tell me Moncada "doesnt care" after reading that, i think his mental is absolutely broken.

I strongly feel that Menechino's gameplan is destroying these hitters, the "dont do too much" mindset is exactly the opposite of what Moncada did in 2019. 

https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/white-sox/ct-spt-white-sox-yoan-moncada-top-prospects-sullivan-20180127-story.html

Am I defending Steverson? No. But The above quote just shows how much Moncada gets lost in his head. You look at his atbats now and you just cant say hes free in his mindset. Hes back to that. Hes thinking too much. That is probably why his power is gone, because hes "just trying to make good contact", just what Menechino wants.

I don't know man , I mean it's hard enough just to say anything with conviction about his physical status . So speculating on whats going on in his head is beyond me. I've never been in a major league clubhouse so I really question how much a hitting coach is listened to. I know you posted a lot of good stats about  Menechino's ground ball rates when he was the Marlins hitting coach and now as White Sox hitting coach and our GB rates so that is a huge concern but the correlation seems to be more than coincidence.

The Sox make such a big deal out of making contact and good things happen when you K less but apparently that philosophy isn't as good as the Sox thought it would be.

Just another huge blunder in the way management is trying to figure out how to be labeled as geniuses instead of focusing on how to recognize a good player from a bad one.

[reiks12]

7 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I don't know man , I mean it's hard enough just to say anything with conviction about his physical status . So speculating on whats going on in his head is beyond me. I've never been in a major league clubhouse so I really question how much a hitting coach is listened to. I know you posted a lot of good stats about  Menechino's ground ball rates when he was the Marlins hitting coach and now as White Sox hitting coach and our GB rates so that is a huge concern but the correlation seems to be more than coincidence.

The Sox make such a big deal out of making contact and good things happen when you K less but apparently that philosophy isn't as good as the Sox thought it would be.

Just another huge blunder in the way management is trying to figure out how to be labeled as geniuses instead of focusing on how to recognize a good player from a bad one.

I have a strong bias against Frank and it probably clouds my mind whenever I look at these hitters. Who knows. Some orgs (the annual contenders) put a ton of money in their hitting coaches from low A to the MLB level so i have to put some stock into it.

[caulfield12]

Intrigue and conspiracy theories abound.  Steve Stone was just out there in LV last weekend.  But Stone supposedly dislikes Moncada.  Brokering a deal to bring Steverson back as Moncada, Robert, Grandal, Jimenez, Leury and Abreu’s personalized hitting coach?
 

“As of 2020, Steverson is the hitting coach for the Las Vegas Aviators, the Triple-A affiliate of the Oakland Athletics.^[1]”
 

 

[Lillian]

23 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

What happened between Charlotte and Chicago?

https://www.mlb.com/news/yoan-moncada-releases-music-video

 

Moncada told Bleacher Report in remarks translated from Spanish that his goals for 2016 are simple. 

"Steal 100 bases and keep focused on reaching the big leagues."

 

FORT MYERS, Fla. — It's Yoan Moncada's turn.

After 90 minutes of fielding drills, the prospect one major league scout labeled "the closest thing to [Mike] Trout I've seen," per Yahoo Sports' Jeff Passan, finally gets to take batting practice.

With a chiseled, 6'2", 205-pound frame that Red Sox pitcher Joe Kelly likened to a "friggin' inside linebacker," Moncada divides his cuts evenly between the right and left side of the plate. It's hard to see a weak side in his swing or when contact is made. The approach is a model of controlled anger. It is as fierce as it is fluid.

There are no BP home runs this day, but steady line drives to left, center and right from both sides of the plate give onlookers a taste of what they came to see.

…..

"I'm not sure we've ever had someone quite like him physically in our system," said general manager Mike Hazen, who has worked with the Red Sox since 2006. "Bo Jackson was a guy built that way. Of course, he played football, too. But no one we've had in our system."

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2624605-red-sox-cuban-phenom-yoan-moncada-more-than-flashy-cars-hype-and-muscles

How Moncada ever got listed as being 6' 2", remains a mystery to me. He might not even be 6'. That has always seemed obvious to me and continues to be perplexing. 

[caulfield12]

Just now, Lillian said:

How Moncada ever got listed as being 6' 2", remains a mystery to me. He might not even be 6'. That has always seemed obvious to me and continues to be perplexing. 

Yes, 5’11 1/2 seems more likely…

[JoshPR]

9 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Whether that's related to Long Covid or not....lower leg, base/foundation, quads, strength is just not there to drive the ball.

Too stiff/muscular in the upper body?

Fast twitch muscles?

I feel him and Robert are built like body builders not ball players so flexibility is an issue

[caulfield12]

Just now, JoshPR said:

I feel him and Robert are built like body builders not ball players so flexibility is an issue

But Trout is quite similar.  Otoh, Buxton looks almost too thin but it doesn’t seem to affect his power at all.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

6 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

I have a strong bias against Frank and it probably clouds my mind whenever I look at these hitters. Who knows. Some orgs (the annual contenders) put a ton of money in their hitting coaches from low A to the MLB level so i have to put some stock into it.

I agree with you but I've never been a guy who can put 100% stock into any one particular way of thinking because we are just speculating. That's why I tend to go with physical more than mental problems. I mean they have doctors to check all things physical. But I do agree that players can think too much and baseball is a game where your talent lies in how you approach the game mentally as much as physically.