Leury Garcia - Tony La Russa and Rick Hahn and beyond....

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

I don't want to call out any posters specifically, but I am so tired of reading that Leury Garcia is a "good" utility player. He's not. He's one of the worst players in MLB (this year he has been the 2nd worst player in baseball). Leury Garcia has never been good. He's never been a player you have to lock up - he's always been replaceable (look at how Mendick is playing in limited time this year). The White Sox currently have two players in the minor leagues that would absolutely outproduced Leury Garcia for a minimum wage (Lenyn Sosa and Yolbert). 

After last night, Leury Garcia now has a 24 wRC+. The worst in baseball for anyone with over 100 PA's. 

Since Leury Garcia entered the league, of players with at least 2000 PA's in that span, Leury Garcia has been the 17th worst player in MLB via fWAR. By that same demographic, he's been the 9th worst hitter with a 76 wRC+. By every measure, Leury Garcia is one of the worst players who has been given any sort of consistent playing time in the past decade.

While Leury Garcia leading off is inexplicable - Leury Garcia had the lowest wRC+ for a leadoff hitter this late in a season (with greater than 100 AB's) in at least the past 50 years - the onus can't lie solely on the shoulders of Tony La Russa. That said, the decisions of La Russa have just been inexplicable. La Russa's decision making has gotten so bad that other teams announcers are calling them out publicly: 

Rick Hahn was supposedly serious about winning, but he gave one of the worst players in baseball a three year contract which limited funds to allocate (apparently). Not only did he give him a three year contract, but he was one of the Sox first moves. Rick Hahn viewed Leury Garcia as a must lock up.  Beyond that, this has happened multiple off-seasons now; Rick Hahn feels the need to "beat the market" for players who would likely have no market. No one in baseball was going to give Leury Garcia three years at 16+ million dollars, because as I laid out above, Leury Garcia is awful at baseball.

This team made fans sit through a rebuild for years under the guise of spending and supporting the group once they came into their contention window. I guess Rick Hahn meant supporting them with dollars spent on replaceable utility players who are on the wrong side of 30. Eduardo Escobar, who cost the same yearly as Josh Harrison/Leury Garcia has been worth 1.1 fWAR. That's 2.2 more fWAR than Garcia/Harrison combined despite having similar total PA's. 

If Rick Hahn was serious about winning, he would release Leury Garcia and Josh Harrison today. He would call up Yolbert and Sosa. There was no excuse for Hahn to spend 10+ million dollars on two players who were easily two of the worst players in MLB. I'm tired of watching Leury Garcia and Josh Harrison. How Rick Hahn executed this off-season is baffling. 

And LEURY GARCIA IS NOT A GOOD UTILITY PLAYER. Please stop saying that.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

7 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I don't want to call out any posters specifically, but I am so tired of reading that Leury Garcia is a "good" utility player. He's not. He's one of the worst players in MLB (this year he has been the 2nd worst player in baseball). Leury Garcia has never been good. He's never been a player you have to lock up - he's always been replaceable (look at how Mendick is playing in limited time this year). The White Sox currently have two players in the minor leagues that would absolutely outproduced Leury Garcia for a minimum wage (Lenyn Sosa and Yolbert). 

After last night, Leury Garcia now has a 24 wRC+. The worst in baseball for anyone with over 100 PA's. 

Since Leury Garcia entered the league, of players with at least 2000 PA's in that span, Leury Garcia has been the 17th worst player in MLB via fWAR. By that same demographic, he's been the 9th worst hitter with a 76 wRC+. By every measure, Leury Garcia is one of the worst players who has been given any sort of consistent playing time in the past decade.

While Leury Garcia leading off is inexplicable - Leury Garcia had the lowest wRC+ for a leadoff hitter this late in a season (with greater than 100 AB's) in at least the past 50 years - the onus can't lie solely on the shoulders of Tony La Russa. That said, the decisions of La Russa have just been inexplicable. La Russa's decision making has gotten so bad that other teams announcers are calling them out publicly: 

Rick Hahn was supposedly serious about winning, but he gave one of the worst players in baseball a three year contract which limited funds to allocate (apparently). Not only did he give him a three year contract, but he was one of the Sox first moves. Rick Hahn viewed Leury Garcia as a must lock up.  Beyond that, this has happened multiple off-seasons now; Rick Hahn feels the need to "beat the market" for players who would likely have no market. No one in baseball was going to give Leury Garcia three years at 16+ million dollars, because as I laid out above, Leury Garcia is awful at baseball.

This team made fans sit through a rebuild for years under the guise of spending and supporting the group once they came into their contention window. I guess Rick Hahn meant supporting them with dollars spent on replaceable utility players who are on the wrong side of 30. Eduardo Escobar, who cost the same yearly as Josh Harrison/Leury Garcia has been worth 1.1 fWAR. That's 2.2 more fWAR than Garcia/Harrison combined despite having similar total PA's. 

If Rick Hahn was serious about winning, he would release Leury Garcia and Josh Harrison today. He would call up Yolbert and Sosa. There was no excuse for Hahn to spend 10+ million dollars on two players who were easily two of the worst players in MLB. I'm tired of watching Leury Garcia and Josh Harrison. How Rick Hahn executed this off-season is baffling. 

And LEURY GARCIA IS NOT A GOOD UTILITY PLAYER. Please stop saying that.

Hated the re-sign from the second it hit.  I wanted him gone unless he came dirt cheap

[reiks12]

2 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Hated the re-sign from the second it hit.  I wanted him gone unless he came dirt cheap

It should have been dirt cheap, nobody else was going to offer him 15 million dollars. It makes me so irate

[Chimpton]

Mind you it is not just Garcia if you look at straight WAR then it is Garcia 288th with -0.9, Sheets at 289th with -1.0 and Grandal at 290th with -1.4.

[JoeC]

I am half beginning to wonder if playing Leury so frequently is a huge “F you” from TLR in response to his being on the roster.

[Chick Mercedes]

1 minute ago, JoeC said:

I am half beginning to wonder if playing Leury so frequently is a huge “F you” from TLR in response to his being on the roster.

Tony might be baseball senile, but he still respects the game and his people more than to do that. He’s just baseball senile, and has good feels about Leury. When his  office phone rings, he might pick  his glove and hold it up to his ear too however.

[pcq]

17 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

It should have been dirt cheap, nobody else was going to offer him 15 million dollars. It makes me so irate

The list of signings they have wasted money on since the Machado fiasco is fairly impressive. Leury's versatility is commendable but hardly unique. His AB's are mostly terrible. I would have given him a Happy Meal coupon and wished him well. Even so the worst problem right now is Grandad who needs to retire. Moncada they are stuck with so might as well enjoy unless they could trade him to Cien Fuegos.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

24 minutes ago, Chimpton said:

Mind you it is not just Garcia if you look at straight WAR then it is Garcia 288th with -0.9, Sheets at 289th with -1.0 and Grandal at 290th with -1.4.

Grandal is hurt, and he's been great the past two years. I can deal with Yaz struggling. Should Yaz likely sit it down for a while and see if his legs can bounce back? Sure, the Sox have a good catcher in AAA which is what makes it odd that they don't. Yaz isn't helping anyone playing through this injury.

Sheets has no business on this roster. I remember reading posters and Hahn talking about how the Sox had a DH because Sheets was on the roster. I said on this board a few times that I would guess the best year of Sheet's career from an OPS standpoint would be last year. The Sox weren't in on Schwarber or Castellanos because they had Gavin freaking Sheets. You honestly can't make that shit up.

Sheets needs to go too, I just don't know who you're bringing up for him. Leury and Josh have two guys in the minors that would outplay them - I am incredibly confident in that. 

Grandal and Yoyo are here to stay - both are likely hurt and not playing through it well. I can deal with very good/talented players struggling. They have track records, they have a chance. Leury and Harrison have terrible track records and don't deserve time.

Edited June 9, 2022 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[pcq]

13 minutes ago, JoeC said:

I am half beginning to wonder if playing Leury so frequently is a huge “F you” from TLR in response to his being on the roster.

If you look at the walk not the talk, you could argue that Tony is a double agent. I would look into that new betting parlour they were setting up. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

15 minutes ago, JoeC said:

I am half beginning to wonder if playing Leury so frequently is a huge “F you” from TLR in response to his being on the roster.

Tony La Russa loves Leury Garcia; don't kid yourself. 

There's not some ulterior motive. This board constantly speculates that La Russa and Hahn are somehow intentionally harming the other. It's just nonsense. Everyone in this organization is on the same page, stroking the same billionaires ego to maintain job security. I used to give Hahn excuses like everyone else, but his track record at this point is deafening. Hahn is the worst big league scout as a GM in the entire league. It's not close.

[BrittBurnsFan]

16 minutes ago, JoeC said:

I am half beginning to wonder if playing Leury so frequently is a huge “F you” from TLR in response to his being on the roster.

TLR acted like Leury's agent last summer...the praise given to Leury from TLR was over the top!  I think TLR loves Leury...but TLR isn't the one who gave Leury a 3 year deal.  

[caulfield12]

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Grandal is hurt, and he's been great the past two years. I can deal with Yaz struggling. Should Yaz likely sit it down for a while and see if his legs can bounce back? Sure, the Sox have a good catcher in AAA which is what makes it odd that they don't. Yaz isn't helping anyone playing through this injury.

Sheets has no business on this roster. I remember reading posters and Hahn talking about how the Sox had a DH because Sheets was on the roster. I said on this board a few times that I would guess the best year of Sheet's career from an OPS standpoint would be last year. The Sox weren't in on Schwarber or Castellanos because they had Gavin freaking Sheets. You honestly can't make that shit up.

Sheets needs to go too, I just don't know who you're bringing up for him. Leury and Josh have two guys in the minors that would outplay them - I am incredibly confident in that. 

Just trade for Josh Bell.  Problem solved, mostly.

[SonofaRoache]

Garcia is decent for an emergency bench player. He can play many positions but should only do so if we have too. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

Garcia is decent for an emergency bench player. He can play many positions but should only do so if we have too. 

No, Leury Garcia is a bad baseball player that can be replaced by countless minor league players and isn't decent at anything.

[caulfield12]

13 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Tony La Russa loves Leury Garcia; don't kid yourself. 

There's not some ulterior motive. This board constantly speculates that La Russa and Hahn are somehow intentionally harming the other. It's just nonsense. Everyone in this organization is on the same page, stroking the same billionaires ego to maintain job security. I used to give Hahn excuses like everyone else, but his track record at this point is deafening. Hahn is the worst big league scout as a GM in the entire league. It's not close.

Well, some of us have been saying that for a decade now.

Right now, he’s alive due to Abreu (Paddy/KW), Luis Robert (Paddy/KW) and the Sale/Eaton/Q trades.

The end.

 

One should look to the Twins, Guardians or further west to SD, because they’ve come a lot closer to building the type of revenue producing juggernaut in the 29th smallest media market that Hahn promised Sox fans.  #3-4 in attendance last two years.  If they manage to resign Musgrove, FIVE contracts in the last six years bigger than the Grandal one.

Even the Twins can afford Buxton and Correa, the Guardians Jose Ramirez and Shane Bieber.  And both those teams don’t need to spend $40+ million on their bullpen, either.  The Twins are on their tenth starting pitcher already and have just as much if not more of an injury excuse card to play than the White Sox. The Sox players just plain suck, other than their four young core players, Giolito, Anderson, Hendriks, Graveman and Abreu.

Edited June 9, 2022 by caulfield12

[Kyyle23]

But what if I think Leury is a good utility player and want to say Leury is a good utility player 

[caulfield12]

The pitching might be fine, but barring superstar injections in Harper or Machado or ANY member of the Top 10 members of the 2020-21 FA classes, we needed two out of Robert, Moncada and Jimenez to be absolute studs and for the older veterans to not start falling off a cliff one year earlier than expected.

We failed on all three accounts, except the starting pitching front.

[Highland]

I know that Garcia is a sore point right now for many reasons, but he is really the least of the team's problems.

Robert has great talent, but he isn't being a real impact right now. Perhaps putting him in the leading off spot would help. He can steal bases and thus put pressure on the defense. And maybe he will see some better pitches in that spot. I am hoping he will develop into the great player he should be. But he is underperforming right now.

I wonder if Eloy is worse off physically than we think. He should be a great offensive threat, but I think he's hit a little wall. He's going to need some ABs to get into the swing of things.

I don't know what to say about Moncada at the moment.

These three are key elements to the rebuild. Yes, giving Garcia three years was dumb, but there are bigger problems. If these three recover and even get close to what they can do, the Sox will look like a different team. It just hasn't happened yet.

[caulfield12]

11 minutes ago, Highland said:

I know that Garcia is a sore point right now for many reasons, but he is really the least of the team's problems.

Robert has great talent, but he isn't being a real impact right now. Perhaps putting him in the leading off spot would help. He can steal bases and thus put pressure on the defense. And maybe he will see some better pitches in that spot. I am hoping he will develop into the great player he should be. But he is underperforming right now.

I wonder if Eloy is worse off physically than we think. He should be a great offensive threat, but I think he's hit a little wall. He's going to need some ABs to get into the swing of things.

I don't know what to say about Moncada at the moment.

These three are key elements to the rebuild. Yes, giving Garcia three years was dumb, but there are bigger problems. If these three recover and even get close to what they can do, the Sox will look like a different team. It just hasn't happened yet.

Engel by far at age 30 has the fastest sprint speed at over 30 feet per second on the team.  Strange.

What happened to Robert, TA, Moncada, etc.?  

Last year the late inning defense was so much more dynamic with Hamilton around.  Goodwin pretty much looked like Juan Pierre compared to Sheets and Vaughn.  We went from one of the fastest, most exciting teams in baseball to station to station pretty much in less than 12 months.  Even Madrigal could run faster than Pollock or Harrison.

Edited June 9, 2022 by caulfield12

[ScootsMcGoots]

At least we aren't the Angels! ?

[soxfan49]

Rick Hahn sucks

Tony La Russa sucks

Leury Garcia sucks

Edited June 9, 2022 by soxfan49

[he gone.]

Don't disagree. Leury should've never received the contract he did. I think 98% of the people on this board are in agreement on this so no reason to beat a dead horse. What we do need to figure out though is next steps ... 

You know what's going to be more frustrating? When Eloy is back next week, when Anderson is back, and we're still seeing playing time for Leury or Sheets or whoever because they bat lefty. The problem is we have a shit roster construction by a GM which is compounded by the fact that our manager is obssessed about trying to R/L/R/L regardless of how they actually are performing. Like i think there's a serious chance you see Adam Haesley or however you spell his name up for Sheets and something like Mendick down regardless of how he's hitting. It's crazy, but that's where we're at. 

I think we have to focus on who is available in the trade market that can play outfield and bat lefty. As someone mentioned a guy like Josh Bell is a perfect candidate. You're not going to have a LH 2B just by the nature of the position, and I'm in complete agreement w the board surrounding our current options ... cut bait. I can see them admitting mistake on Harrison, but just don't see it on Leury. the love affair with TLR and Leury runs deep and also runs deep btween JR and TLR. Hahn isn't going to risk his position a) wasting jerrys money b) admitting his mistake for a 3rd time this year (keuchel, harrison, leury) c) possibly pissing off the big guy on their triangle of love.

Just be aware, a signing of Josh Bell will lead to even more frustration around the benching of Vaughn. 

[Greg Hibbard]

Eh, I know we are all frustrated, but wasting all this energy piling on the $5m a year signing of a player like Leury Garcia seems baffling.

Garcia generated 2.08 fWAR / 2.25 rWAR per 162 during his last four years from 2018-2021.

The signing was…maybe a $1 million per year overpay at the time? 

Does it look terrible in hindsight? Sure, if he doesn’t turn this historically bad start around, but season in and season out over the last four years he’s proven to be pretty consistent over each campaign. 

Yes, his production has been historically abysmal this season, but he is the last player I would blame, when there are so many more cornerstone assets of this organization not producing even close to what we need from them. 

Edited June 9, 2022 by Greg Hibbard

[caulfield12]

12 minutes ago, he gone. said:

Don't disagree. Leury should've never received the contract he did. I think 98% of the people on this board are in agreement on this so no reason to beat a dead horse. What we do need to figure out though is next steps ... 

You know what's going to be more frustrating? When Eloy is back next week, when Anderson is back, and we're still seeing playing time for Leury or Sheets or whoever because they bat lefty. The problem is we have a shit roster construction by a GM which is compounded by the fact that our manager is obssessed about trying to R/L/R/L regardless of how they actually are performing. Like i think there's a serious chance you see Adam Haesley or however you spell his name up for Sheets and something like Mendick down regardless of how he's hitting. It's crazy, but that's where we're at. 

I think we have to focus on who is available in the trade market that can play outfield and bat lefty. As someone mentioned a guy like Josh Bell is a perfect candidate. You're not going to have a LH 2B just by the nature of the position, and I'm in complete agreement w the board surrounding our current options ... cut bait. I can see them admitting mistake on Harrison, but just don't see it on Leury. the love affair with TLR and Leury runs deep and also runs deep btween JR and TLR. Hahn isn't going to risk his position a) wasting jerrys money b) admitting his mistake for a 3rd time this year (keuchel, harrison, leury) c) possibly pissing off the big guy on their triangle of love.

Just be aware, a signing of Josh Bell will lead to even more frustration around the benching of Vaughn. 

Adam Frazier bats left and throws RH.

[ChiSox59]

24 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said:

Eh, I know we are all frustrated, but wasting all this energy piling on the $5m a year signing of a player like Leury Garcia seems baffling.

Garcia generated 2.08 fWAR / 2.25 rWAR per 162 during his last four years from 2018-2021.

The signing was…maybe a $1 million per year overpay at the time? 

Does it look terrible in hindsight? Sure, if he doesn’t turn this historically bad start around, but season in and season out over the last four years he’s proven to be pretty consistent over each campaign. 

Yes, his production has been historically abysmal this season, but he is the last player I would blame, when there are so many more cornerstone assets of this organization not producing even close to what we need from them. 

This. Leury has been grossly overused the last couple seasons, but injuries will do that.  He's just been healthy, something he generally hasn't been in the past.  $5M AAV is chump change, and while it may be an overpay of $1-2M, its really fairly insignificant in the grand scheme of things.  Could those dollars have been better deployed?  Yeah, sure.  But its really not that big of a deal.  

None of this is to say that Leury hasn't been awful.  He has been.  But he's a fine back of the bench utility player on a contender.  He just hasn't been used that way because the FO didn't sign a capable 2B.  He's only played 35 innings in the OF this season, so while you could add not signing a RF into that comment, it doesn't hold that true YTD 2022. 

I think (know) Larussa loves him, which is really the problem.