Too soon to panic

[The Kids Can Play]

4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Giving full season stats for that day in question isn't the whole picture.  Jake had slashed a .179/.250/.179/.429 line with 15 Ks in 32 PAs before he got sent down.  His 279/.296./465/.761 to start the season had held it up.

The other bigger problem for Jake is his defense.  He can barely play 3rd, and that's it.  When you make a list like this, it is mostly nonsense.  Jake can't catch, so why are you comparing to the two catchers?  Jake can't play OF, so why compare him to Engel?  Sheets is left-handed which is why he stuck around, and he can stand in the OF, which is more than Burger can, sadly.  Mendick was sent down.  Harrison can play more than 3B, as can Leury. 

Burger didn't have a clear path to ABs until Yoan got hurt again, and then Jake came up and hit, which actually made it more of a priority to squeeze him into the line up.

The stats are the full picture and he was hitting far better than Sheets or Mendick that should have been sent down.

Maybe he isn't the best fielder yet, but he also hasn't had enough big league games to get more polished at 3rd. Many years ago long before the DH, there were many hitters that were bad fielders and played daily because of their bat. Go back and look at who was at DH every game and so many times Burger could have been at DH even before Moncada got injured. With the horrendously weak hitting team, Burger should have stayed up. I guess we will agree to disagree!

[Lillian]

In scanning the rosters of teams that might soon be sellers, I really can't find a solid LH bat, with decent RF defense, who might be someone whom Hahn could try to acquire, at the trade deadline. Benintendi will likely be available, but I don't think that he has the arm to play RF. Moreover, he's really not a big power hitter. Tyler Naquin has been injured the last couple weeks and Joey Gallo is having a terrible year. Is there someone in Japan? I'm at a loss. I guess that we shouldn't have scoffed at the idea of signing Joc Pederson. He would look pretty good, at this point. I even looked at teams who will likely contend, all year, to see if any of them were too heavily loaded with LH bats, and in need of more RH balance. I don't think there are any teams that are in that circumstance. 

Edited June 13, 2022 by Lillian

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

The stats are the full picture and he was hitting far better than Sheets or Mendick that should have been sent down.

Maybe he isn't the best fielder yet, but he also hasn't had enough big league games to get more polished at 3rd. Many years ago long before the DH, there were many hitters that were bad fielders and played daily because of their bat. Go back and look at who was at DH every game and so many times Burger could have been at DH even before Moncada got injured. With the horrendously weak hitting team, Burger should have stayed up. I guess we will agree to disagree!

Sure, and the stats at that time showed that Burger was an easy send down.  He was in a horrible slump and can't help the team at all defensively.

[The Kids Can Play]

16 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Sure, and the stats at that time showed that Burger was an easy send down.  He was in a horrible slump and can't help the team at all defensively.

Hmm, and Sheets wasn't a horrible fielder as well? Sheets was hitting a worse BA at .203 and in his previous 8 games was 2-18. I would call that a horrible slump as well and worthy of being sent down. The only reason Sheets made the cut was he was left handed. I would have kept the better hitter Burger and screw the left handed power angle...because Sheets was an easy out most times at the plate. 

[southsider2k5]

4 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Hmm, and Sheets wasn't a horrible fielder as well? Sheets was hitting a worse BA at .203 and in his previous 8 games was 2-18. I would call that a horrible slump as well and worthy of being sent down. The only reason Sheets made the cut was he was left handed. I would have kept the better hitter Burger and screw the left handed power angle...because Sheets was an easy out most times at the plate. 

Sheets doesn't play 3rd, and Burger doesn't play LF or RF.  There is no overlap there.

[The Kids Can Play]

9 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Sheets doesn't play 3rd, and Burger doesn't play LF or RF.  There is no overlap there.

They forced Vaughn and Sheets to learn to play the OF, which they never played before in their entire baseball career. I'm am quite sure Burger could have attempted and learned to play LF or RF. Burger could also have been used for DH more!

[southsider2k5]

12 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

They forced Vaughn and Sheets to learn to play the OF, which they never played before in their entire baseball career. I'm am quite sure Burger could have attempted and learned to play LF or RF. Burger could also have been used for DH more!

The fact that they let both Vaughn and Sheets play the OF (Vaughn also playing 3B and 2B at different times) should make it really, really obvious that Jake Burger is so awful defensively that even Tony LaRussa hasn't been willing to play him at those other positions.  His absolute lack of any defensive flexibility is 100% the issue here.

[almagest]

Burger's best spot is at DH with occasional starts at 3B, maybe 1B. Hopefully he can hit enough for that. Also, this only really makes sense when Jose retires or goes elsewhere, and assumes Moncada remembers how to hit.

This roster is just in a terrible spot, man.

Edited June 13, 2022 by almagest

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

6 hours ago, Lillian said:

I don't know, but I agree that this might be the most serious dilemma that faces the front office. He is owed a lot of money and has been regarded as a key piece of this team's core, for the window of contention. Complicating the situation is the emergence of Burger as a productive offensive player, whose only viable position is third base. Releasing Moncada is not an option, due to the size of that contract. I still favor the idea of trading him, for whatever they can get, just to get out of that contractual obligation for all of that money. That would allow them to better spend the financial resources on a player more suitable to their needs, such as a LH hitting run producer. Not that any names, quickly come to mind, but perhaps if a few more teams fall out of contention, someone could emerge as a viable candidate to fill that role.

The only other plausible option, that I can think of, is to retool his game. I wrote about that in another post. He has so many tools that he might be better served by changing his approach to the game. He has speed and athleticism. If he could become a good contact hitter and stolen base threat, he could still be a useful player and could profile as a second baseman. That seems more feasible than hoping that he will develop into a slugger, which he has clearly not been able to do.

For whatever reason Yoan is losing his tools . You talked about speed. Apparently he has lost that tool.

In 2017 when he was 22 his sprint speed was 28.9 ft/second which was better than 91.5 % of baseball.

IN 2022 his sprint speed is now 27.0 ft/sec down from last years 27.7 which it was a since 2019. Now he's better than only 46.8 % of baseball.

It's still a relatively small sample for this year but he can't hit or even get on base very well either.

Send him to some kind of medical specialist like the best and give Yoan full set of exams for a month. Run him through the gamut to test his physical and mental state . It's worth that time to see if there is any hope for him to recover and rediscover his potential.

They have too much money invested in him to let the "experts" on the Sox turn him around. Those Sox "experts" are better at making players worse , not better.

[hi8is]

Chicago White Sox: F
Preseason Line: 91.5; Current Projection: 76.8

By the end of this exercise, there will be six failing grades handed out. Five of those six F's go to teams that were expected to win fewer than 76 games and are on pace for around 55. But Chicago is hands down the biggest disappointment in 2022. Michael Kopech might be in the mix for the AL Cy Young. Tim Anderson might win the batting crown (if he gets enough plate appearances after he returns from the IL). And yet the White Sox—who were neck-and-neck with the Astros, Blue Jays and Yankees for preseason AL supremacy—have a sub-.500 record and a negative-54 run differential.

 

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10038301-reevaluating-all-30-mlb-teams-based-on-preseason-projections.amp.html

[Bob Sacamano]

1 minute ago, hi8is said:

Chicago White Sox: F
Preseason Line: 91.5; Current Projection: 76.8

And I took the over. Damn it.

[Texsox]

38 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

And I took the over. Damn it.

Yeah. I have a pennant and WS bet in. I wish I didn't get to Illinois during spring break. That stuff is illegal here in Texas. 

[caulfield12]

3 hours ago, Lillian said:

In scanning the rosters of teams that might soon be sellers, I really can't find a solid LH bat, with decent RF defense, who might be someone whom Hahn could try to acquire, at the trade deadline. Benintendi will likely be available, but I don't think that he has the arm to play RF. Moreover, he's really not a big power hitter. Tyler Naquin has been injured the last couple weeks and Joey Gallo is having a terrible year. Is there someone in Japan? I'm at a loss. I guess that we shouldn't have scoffed at the idea of signing Joc Pederson. He would look pretty good, at this point. I even looked at teams who will likely contend, all year, to see if any of them were too heavily loaded with LH bats, and in need of more RH balance. I don't think there are any teams that are in that circumstance. 

Orioles, guys like Mancini or Santander are some of the better options…assuming not all in on Benintendi due to buy high cost that you saw with Adam Frazier All-Star last year.  

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, Bob Sacamano said:

And I took the over. Damn it.

Someone had 109…I warned him.

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

For whatever reason Yoan is losing his tools . You talked about speed. Apparently he has lost that tool.

In 2017 when he was 22 his sprint speed was 28.9 ft/second which was better than 91.5 % of baseball.

IN 2022 his sprint speed is now 27.0 ft/sec down from last years 27.7 which it was a since 2019. Now he's better than only 46.8 % of baseball.

It's still a relatively small sample for this year but he can't hit or even get on base very well either.

Send him to some kind of medical specialist like the best and give Yoan full set of exams for a month. Run him through the gamut to test his physical and mental state . It's worth that time to see if there is any hope for him to recover and rediscover his potential.

They have too much money invested in him to let the "experts" on the Sox turn him around. Those Sox "experts" are better at making players worse , not better.

Engel at age 30 is at 30.5…something’s definitely up physically or psychologically.  Covid has been the easy explanation, but it’s a mystery wrapped in an enigma.

[Chisoxfn]

10 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

It is rather impressive how well winning percentage in the AL is tracking run differential.

The White Sox are 2 teams above where they should be thanks to a positive record in close games. The Red Sox and Guardians are a bit worse than expected. 

How much of that run differential came from like 3 games.  Especially knowing fact that this team hasn't scored many runs at any point in the season (sans the past couple of games). 

[PorkChopExpress]

I think everyone on the team needs this tattoo on their arm, and everything will be just fine. 

[Texsox]

I'm not panicking. I predicted 3rd place and I think they can still hit that mark. 

[Tnetennba]

20 hours ago, ScooterMcGuire said:

Panic-no. Disinterest-absolutely

Apathy, disinterest, emotional detachment…

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

It’s still just mid June and the Sox are 3 games back from a playoff spot. Even if it were the end of July and the Sox were in the same position they’d still have a very good chance of making the playoffs when you consider they have the easiest remaining strength of schedule in the AL.

[pcq]

Wilbon spices things up. Cub fan.

While discussing the possibility of the White Sox firing Hall of Fame manager Tony La Russa during Monday’s episode of “Pardon the Interruption,” Wilbon noted that not only is the team disappointingly below .500 after winning 93 games last season, but they’ve been giving up runs in bunches, allowing 11 runs in a loss to the Dodgers last week, then 11 and 8 in back-to-back losses to the Rangers last weekend.

 

“They don’t just lose games, they get crushed, as if they’re physically afraid of the opponent,” said Wilbon, who also labeled the White Sox as the most disappointing team in baseball. “Oh wait, they are afraid of the Astros. As soon as they see the Astros’ bus pull in the parking lot, they want to run home and cower.”

[South Side Hit Men]

2 hours ago, pcq said:

Wilbon spices things up. Cub fan.

While discussing the possibility of the White Sox firing Hall of Fame manager Tony La Russa during Monday’s episode of “Pardon the Interruption,” Wilbon noted that not only is the team disappointingly below .500 after winning 93 games last season, but they’ve been giving up runs in bunches, allowing 11 runs in a loss to the Dodgers last week, then 11 and 8 in back-to-back losses to the Rangers last weekend.

 

“They don’t just lose games, they get crushed, as if they’re physically afraid of the opponent,” said Wilbon, who also labeled the White Sox as the most disappointing team in baseball. “Oh wait, they are afraid of the Astros. As soon as they see the Astros’ bus pull in the parking lot, they want to run home and cower.”

Tony is a fighter, not a uniter.

https://www.mlb.com/news/tony-la-russa-upset-over-jose-abreu-hbp-in-alds-game-4