Crochet hoping to be a starter

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

3 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

They're not going to have the patience to let him develop as a starter.  They missed that chance when they rushed him to the big league bullpen. 

Yup.  Been saying the same since he wasn't sent down his first full year to develop

[ChiSox59]

I think Crochet had a chance to be a starter in 23 with an increased workload in 22 including some spot starts to get the innings up.  Call it the Kopech model, if you will.  With the TJS, the only chance he is a SP moving forward is if he spends all/most of 2023 in the minors getting stretched out.  I don't think the Sox would be willing to "waste" his arm in the minors; nor do I think Garrett would be pleased spending a season+ in the minors.  Is it possible?  Sure.  I just don't see the stars aligning for it to happen.  

[SpringfieldFan]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

Lol that 2011 season was supposed to be competitive. They had just added Rios and spent big on Dunn to try to solve some of their problems from 2010. 

And even with that, as soon as something iffy happened while trying to stretch him out in 2012, they tried to stick him in the bullpen, and the one who said no is Chris Sale. If he'd gone along with Kenny and the management, they'd have made him a permanent closer in 2012 and he'd never have left that role. 

As a former (admittedly disgruntled) coworker of mine said, "if the boss has you clean toilets one day and you show you are really good at it, he's gonna want to keep you cleaning toilets."

[ptatc]

5 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

They're not going to have the patience to let him develop as a starter.  They missed that chance when they rushed him to the big league bullpen. 

I still say it's all about the innings build up. It would be the same if they left him in the minors 

[Eminor3rd]

I know why people want to make the comparison, but Crochet does not have anything even remotely close to the control that Sale had. They’re not all that similar in term of SP prospects. 

[caulfield12]

6 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

I know why people want to make the comparison, but Crochet does not have anything even remotely close to the control that Sale had. They’re not all that similar in term of SP prospects. 

https://www.prospectslive.com/scoutingreports/garrett-crochet

 

Comp here was Tyler Glasnow

 

Physical Description: Tall and extremely athletic lefthander with a high-waisted build that should add good weight over the years. Close to physical peak already, high level athlete and conditioning. Repeats his mechanics well, and uses his athleticism to create deception.

Delivery & Mechanics: Athletic but offbeat mechanically, big leg kick that closes off his front side to the plate as he pushes off from the third base side of the rubber before exploding toward home. The motion is violent but it works for him as he extends well and drops down to deliver from a low three quarters slot. There's some inconsistency in his back leg but he's able to repeat his motion for the most part landing on-line with the target at release. Serious stress on the arm and shoulder have led to frequent injuries.

…..

Control and Command: Did not walk a batter across six major league innings in 2020 fresh out of the draft. Displayed average strike throwing as an amateur in a starter's role and his control and command seemed to tick up in relief with the White Sox. His stuff has enough intense movement that elite pinpoint precision is unlikely to manifest but it's an average control with fringe-average command profile. Crochet is the type of arm where it's less about hitting spots and more about getting it in the zone. Think Tyler Glasnow. Control: 50 | Command: 45

Overall: Perhaps a future bullpen ace if the White Sox decide to go that way. The dreaded forearm tightness reared its ugly head in 2020, but it turned out to be a mild flexor strain. Due to Crochet's mechanics and injury history there's a fair amount of risk in the profile despite his ascent. It's unheard of that a player would join a major league club out of the draft, but the unusual circumstances of 2020 and Crochet's unique arsenal were the perfect combination. We know what he can be in a bullpen role already, but there's many that view Crochet as a capable starting pitching prospect. Despite the injury risk we're comfortable labeling Crochet a high leverage relief arm. Which by all accounts is not a tremendous leap. There's still an outside shot the White Sox develop Crochet as a starter, but frankly the injury risk coupled with his impressive debut might make it too difficult to remove him from the backend of the pen.

[Eminor3rd]

12 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

https://www.prospectslive.com/scoutingreports/garrett-crochet

 

Comp here was Tyler Glasnow

 

Physical Description: Tall and extremely athletic lefthander with a high-waisted build that should add good weight over the years. Close to physical peak already, high level athlete and conditioning. Repeats his mechanics well, and uses his athleticism to create deception.

Delivery & Mechanics: Athletic but offbeat mechanically, big leg kick that closes off his front side to the plate as he pushes off from the third base side of the rubber before exploding toward home. The motion is violent but it works for him as he extends well and drops down to deliver from a low three quarters slot. There's some inconsistency in his back leg but he's able to repeat his motion for the most part landing on-line with the target at release. Serious stress on the arm and shoulder have led to frequent injuries.

…..

Control and Command: Did not walk a batter across six major league innings in 2020 fresh out of the draft. Displayed average strike throwing as an amateur in a starter's role and his control and command seemed to tick up in relief with the White Sox. His stuff has enough intense movement that elite pinpoint precision is unlikely to manifest but it's an average control with fringe-average command profile. Crochet is the type of arm where it's less about hitting spots and more about getting it in the zone. Think Tyler Glasnow. Control: 50 | Command: 45

Overall: Perhaps a future bullpen ace if the White Sox decide to go that way. The dreaded forearm tightness reared its ugly head in 2020, but it turned out to be a mild flexor strain. Due to Crochet's mechanics and injury history there's a fair amount of risk in the profile despite his ascent. It's unheard of that a player would join a major league club out of the draft, but the unusual circumstances of 2020 and Crochet's unique arsenal were the perfect combination. We know what he can be in a bullpen role already, but there's many that view Crochet as a capable starting pitching prospect. Despite the injury risk we're comfortable labeling Crochet a high leverage relief arm. Which by all accounts is not a tremendous leap. There's still an outside shot the White Sox develop Crochet as a starter, but frankly the injury risk coupled with his impressive debut might make it too difficult to remove him from the backend of the pen.

Yeah that shit’s old

[AJ'S Cousin]

i was hoping he could become Hendriks replacement in a couple years. He'll miss miss part of next year i believe, have to start at either Double A and or Triple A for rehab, then come up and serve the rest of the year in the bullpen. Lynn has a club option for 2024, if he stays, you have Cease, Lynn, and Kopech as your core. I'm not betting on Lucas Gio being around, i'd like him to be and have Garret as a number 5. Who knows what these morons in the front office come up with?? Maybe they'll throw all there extra money at the bullpen again and we go dumpster diving again for a second baseman, catchers, and Right fielders. Thank GOD we don't need DH's or 1st  Basemen

[southsider2k5]

If Crochet is willing to spend a couple of full seasons in the minors (say 23 and 24) its doable.  Other than that, it just doesn't work mathematically. 

[AJ'S Cousin]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

If Crochet is willing to spend a couple of full seasons in the minors (say 23 and 24) its doable.  Other than that, it just doesn't work mathematically. 

 

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

If Crochet is willing to spend a couple of full seasons in the minors (say 23 and 24) its doable.  Other than that, it just doesn't work mathematically. 

 

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

If Crochet is willing to spend a couple of full seasons in the minors (say 23 and 24) its doable.  Other than that, it just doesn't work mathematically. 

Correct, if he won’t do that, he delusional if he thinks he’s going to walk in and start is 2023. Not even 2024. He needs the Chris Sale type of method and even slowed down a bit

[caulfield12]

35 minutes ago, AJ'S Cousin said:

i was hoping he could become Hendriks replacement in a couple years. He'll miss miss part of next year i believe, have to start at either Double A and or Triple A for rehab, then come up and serve the rest of the year in the bullpen. Lynn has a club option for 2024, if he stays, you have Cease, Lynn, and Kopech as your core. I'm not betting on Lucas Gio being around, i'd like him to be and have Garret as a number 5. Who knows what these morons in the front office come up with?? Maybe they'll throw all there extra money at the bullpen again and we go dumpster diving again for a second baseman, catchers, and Right fielders. Thank GOD we don't need DH's or 1st  Basemen

Not sure how desirable having Lynn around two more years from now is going to be…if he doesn’t take better care of himself, he’s going to end up breaking down like Grandal.  Just not sure he has the discipline of a Verlander.  Of course, very very few do.

Another factor is how long TLR is around, since they have a pretty obvious connection.

And we’re already the oldest team in the AL Central, certainly if you look at just position players.  Not sure how long that approach is sustainable without getting contributions outside of Anderson, Vaughn and Robert.

[caulfield12]

41 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

Yeah that shit’s old

What about that changed over the course of the last 12-18 months?

The issues are all the same.  It’s not like his body has changed at all…or basic musculature.

Unless he completely revamps his mechanics TJ doesn’t mean he will be healthy indefinitely.

[southsider2k5]

36 minutes ago, AJ'S Cousin said:

 

 

Correct, if he won’t do that, he delusional if he thinks he’s going to walk in and start is 2023. Not even 2024. He needs the Chris Sale type of method and even slowed down a bit

Chris Sale had at least hit some OK innings numbers in college.  Crochet hasn't even done that much.  He needs to be built up over a period of years to be able to used as a starter reliably.  That is also assuming his arm doesn't fall off in the process.

[Dick Allen]

Between HS varsity, college and pro ball, Crochet has a little less than 300 innings under his belt, and arm issues at least 3 times, one surgery. Anyone who thinks he qill be a quality starter are way too high. He probably misses most of next season. Just hope he's not one who comes back and sucks. A lockdown lefty reliever is still a win at his draft slot.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Dick Allen

[ptatc]

6 hours ago, AJ'S Cousin said:

 

 

Correct, if he won’t do that, he delusional if he thinks he’s going to walk in and start is 2023. Not even 2024. He needs the Chris Sale type of method and even slowed down a bit

Agreed. He's going to need 2 years to build up to starter innings.

[caulfield12]

8 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Agreed. He's going to need 2 years to build up to starter innings.

And the window might even be closed by then…

[ptatc]

2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

And the window might even be closed by then…

What are you talking about?

[caulfield12]

16 minutes ago, ptatc said:

What are you talking about?

The earliest he would be starting for the Sox would be at the end of the 2024-25 season, but more likely to start 2025.

We might not even have TA7 on the roster at that point.

[joejoesox]

9 hours ago, AJ'S Cousin said:

i was hoping he could become Hendriks replacement in a couple years. He'll miss miss part of next year i believe, have to start at either Double A and or Triple A for rehab, then come up and serve the rest of the year in the bullpen. Lynn has a club option for 2024, if he stays, you have Cease, Lynn, and Kopech as your core. I'm not betting on Lucas Gio being around, i'd like him to be and have Garret as a number 5. Who knows what these morons in the front office come up with?? Maybe they'll throw all there extra money at the bullpen again and we go dumpster diving again for a second baseman, catchers, and Right fielders. Thank GOD we don't need DH's or 1st  Basemen

Giolito will be traded next year imo

[zisk]

13 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Between HS varsity, college and pro ball, Crochet has a little less than 300 innings under his belt, and arm issues at least 3 times, one surgery. Anyone who thinks he qill be a quality starter are way too high. He probably misses most of next season. Just hope he's not one who comes back and sucks. A lockdown lefty reliever is still a win at his draft slot.

Don't they replace the bad ligament with a larger ligament from the hip during TJS? Maybe he will be more durable after the surgery.

So many guys have had this done now. Do any have improved durability going forward?

[ptatc]

6 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

The earliest he would be starting for the Sox would be at the end of the 2024-25 season, but more likely to start 2025.

We might not even have TA7 on the roster at that point.

That has no bearing on the conversation on how to possibly make him a starter. 

[ptatc]

12 minutes ago, zisk said:

Don't they replace the bad ligament with a larger ligament from the hip during TJS? Maybe he will be more durable after the surgery.

So many guys have had this done now. Do any have improved durability going forward?

They usually use a tendon from your wrist called the Palmaris longus. . It's not really useful but not everyone has one. If they don't have one they'll use a portion of the semitendinousus hamstring tendon. They aren't as strong as a ligament but they weave it together in a figure 8.

Believe it or not, when that tendon dies because it has been removed, it comes back with physical properties more of a ligament and not a tendon as it was. Still not exactly a ligament but closer.