caulfield12 Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 (edited) 25 minutes ago, bmags said: I don't have a problem with Paddy per se, I think Hahn is the problem in letting each unit run independent strategies and not trying to make any complement each other. Look at crochet, to me that's a big sign of lack of cohesion in decision making in pd vs. scouting vs. gm. Hostetler and Paddy were both generating older prospects and left a gaping chasm after the main graduations. Shirley and Paddy are both going after top talent and running some very small classes. Paddy definitely got INTL scouting up and running. It doesn't run exactly the way I like, but for the most part when Paddy values a guy higher than BA or some other group indicates other team did, I tend to beleive paddy is right. He also doesn't run PD, so who knows how much extra buffer could happen. But at this point, the guy put his neck down on Tatis, Robert, Abreu, tried hard for Soto. I didn't think Yolbert had a chance to be decent based on his Cuban stats, now he's on verge of a long mlb career (still wouldn't have paid him 2.5 mill and made him our own class, but eh). https://www.southsidesox.com/minors/2013/2/11/3975216/the-tawdry-tangled-history-of-the-white-sox-latin-american-operations In some ways, it’s really quite simple. We never really had competitive advantage in the DR, Puerto Rico or Venezuela. Same with the Pacific Rim where the Mariners, Red Sox, Angels, Dodgers, etc., tend to dominate. Of course the why behind it is another story. That basically left Panama (C-Lee), Colombia (Quintana), Brazil (Jerry Krause, Andre Rienzo, Silverio, Anderson Gomes) and, as things, evolved, Cuba. Given the limited budget and distaste for competing over 14 and 15 year olds, not sure what they actually could have done differently. I mean, it seems we have/had a Vladimir Guerrero relation (wrong one), Reyes (wrong one, Franklin instead of Franmil), Carlos Martinez’s son, Tatis brothers (Elijah might never get to A ball)…but 50% of the organizational philosophy has been targeting the former MLB bloodlines and selling that to JR as the best possible return on investment. Edited June 23, 2022 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 51 minutes ago, Quin said: So people can just enjoy themselves a bit. 20-21-year-old Eloy Jimenez in AA (71 games): .326/.375/.557, 13 home runs 21-year-old Luis Robert in AA (56 games): .314/.362/.518, 8 home runs 22-year-old Lenyn Sosa in AA (62 games): .331/.384/.549, 14 home runs Yes, I dropped Sosa's 2021 season to show he made some sort of change because he went from intriguing SS prospect with some projection to Eloy/Robert. So you're saying Sosa is going to blow out a hamstring running to first base? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 2 hours ago, CentralChamps21 said: Now he can have McGuire and Sosa in the same lineup! The new Bash Bros Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 Just now, almagest said: So you're saying Sosa is going to blow out a hamstring running to first base? That's like a guarantee for any top White Sox prospect at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 1 minute ago, almagest said: So you're saying Sosa is going to blow out a hamstring running to first base? 34 minutes ago, Quin said: Listen here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 8 minutes ago, almagest said: So you're saying Sosa is going to blow out a hamstring running to first base? Or hip flexor… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 9 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: https://www.southsidesox.com/minors/2013/2/11/3975216/the-tawdry-tangled-history-of-the-white-sox-latin-american-operations In some ways, it’s really quite simple. We never really had competitive advantage in the DR, Puerto Rico or Venezuela. Same with the Pacific Rim where the Mariners, Red Sox, Angels, Dodgers, etc., tend to dominate. Of course the why behind it is another story. That basically left Panama (C-Lee), Colombia (Quintana), Brazil (Jerry Krause, Andre Rienzo, Silverio, Anderson Gomes) and, as things, evolved, Cuba. Given the limited budget and distaste for competing over 14 and 15 year olds, not sure what they actually could have done differently. I mean, it seems we have/had a Vladimir Guerrero relation (wrong one), Reyes (wrong one, Franklin instead of Franmil), Carlos Martinez’s son, Tatis brothers (Elijah might never get to A ball)…but 50% of the organizational philosophy has been targeting the former MLB bloodlines and selling that to JR as the best possible return on investment. you are not actually conversing with me. 2 1 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 Hold up Jerry Krause was assigned brazil??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RibbieRubarb Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 5 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: Hold up Jerry Krause was assigned brazil??? Just the steakhouses... 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 55 minutes ago, bmags said: I don't have a problem with Paddy per se, I think Hahn is the problem in letting each unit run independent strategies and not trying to make any complement each other. Look at crochet, to me that's a big sign of lack of cohesion in decision making in pd vs. scouting vs. gm. Hostetler and Paddy were both generating older prospects and left a gaping chasm after the main graduations. Shirley and Paddy are both going after top talent and running some very small classes. Paddy definitely got INTL scouting up and running. It doesn't run exactly the way I like, but for the most part when Paddy values a guy higher than BA or some other group indicates other team did, I tend to beleive paddy is right. He also doesn't run PD, so who knows how much extra buffer could happen. But at this point, the guy put his neck down on Tatis, Robert, Abreu, tried hard for Soto. I didn't think Yolbert had a chance to be decent based on his Cuban stats, now he's on verge of a long mlb career (still wouldn't have paid him 2.5 mill and made him our own class, but eh). How is crochet indicative of the lack of cohesion? They had a plan. Most on this board didn't like the plan but they had a plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 (edited) 36 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: Hold up Jerry Krause was assigned brazil??? Though he started as a basketball scout, Krause switched to baseball during the 1970s and 1980s and worked for the Cleveland Indians, Oakland A's, Seattle Mariners and White Sox. After his retirement from the Bulls, Krause worked for the New York Yankees, New York Mets and Arizona Diamondbacks. He took over as the White Sox international scouting director in 2010 and worked through 2011 until current director Marco Paddy was hired. "I have two different Jerry Krause experiences," current White Sox general manager Rick Hahn said. "I had grown up in Chicago as a kid, seeing the Bulls teams he built and feeling a sense of gratitude toward him before I even met the man once given what that team was able to accomplish. From a personal level, when he was here and involved in our scouting operations, I found him to be an excellent evaluator and a very thoughtful individual who knew a tremendous amount about the game and was generous with his time and was certainly an asset while he was here." https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/chicago-white-sox/how-jerry-krause-impacted-2005-white-sox-world-series-title https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/ct-jerry-krause-baseball-scouting-last-dance-20200502-d3owq32ltjgrzl4e5ihwiogmam-story.html https://www.mlb.com/news/white-sox-scout-jerry-krause-dies-at-age-77-c220288534 The Wilder era significantly set back the White Sox’s international program, between the years he spent supervising their Latin American scouting and the time it has continued to take them to rebuild. After firing Wilder in 2008, the White Sox did little to overhaul their pre-existing systems in Latin America for two years until they hired Jerry Krause—the former Chicago Bulls general manager—to lead their international scouting department last April. As a result, the White Sox have spent more effort overhauling pre-existing systems and adding personnel to their Latin American scouting staff than signing top players. Aside from the Cuban market, the White Sox have sat on the sidelines for top international talent the last few years, as they spent just an estimated $345,000 overseas last year. Between the draft and the international market, no team in baseball spent less than the White Sox on amateur talent in 2010. Edited June 23, 2022 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 If the Sox had signed and kept Tatis Uno and Soto no one would ever have heard of them. Lenyn sounds like a Commie. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 1 minute ago, pcq said: If the Sox had signed and kept Tatis Uno and Soto no one would ever have heard of them. Lenyn sounds like a Commie. Too bad there's not a Trotsky in the system. That could have been as fun as the good days of Hamilton-Burr. Or at least a McCartney or Harrison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 43 minutes ago, ptatc said: How is crochet indicative of the lack of cohesion? They had a plan. Most on this board didn't like the plan but they had a plan. you think the people drafting him wanted to send him straight to big leagues as a reliever and never let him develop his third pitch or endurance in the imors? Or was the white sox bullpen and pitching collapsing in 2020 and the sox took a gamble they had a hard time unwinding once he was a good reliever? https://theathletic.com/1871512/2020/06/15/how-white-sox-draft-pick-garrett-crochet-matured-into-a-most-valuable-weapon/ First-year White Sox scouting director Mike Shirley made the call to take Crochet at No. 11 with the naked intent that he will be a future rotation cog, but that gamble is regarded as a bold leap of faith that divided scouts. “He put his cojones on the table,” Vitello said of Shirley. “I think he’s going to be rewarded for it.” ... Anderson thinks Crochet’s frame could still support another 10 pounds acquired through a major league strength program and has been sending his pupil big-league baseballs so that he can get used to the feel of them on his fingers. But he doesn’t think the White Sox should rush Crochet up to the majors to live off his fastball-slider combination. But yeah sure it was always the plan. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 23, 2022 Author Share Posted June 23, 2022 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 9 minutes ago, pcq said: If the Sox had signed and kept Tatis Uno and Soto no one would ever have heard of them. Lenyn sounds like a Commie. Tatis and Soto were up at 20 years old, you don't do that because of player development. They were going to be MLB baseball players. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 Sometimes fate steps in to persuade the powers that be to make what I'm sure the Sox management perceives as a move born out of desperation. I'm cheering for fate. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maloney.adam Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 when I saw the thread title I thought, "Oh no, what 37 year old starting pitcher with a 5 era did we trade for now...." Glad to be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 23, 2022 Author Share Posted June 23, 2022 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 13 hours ago, caulfield12 said: What is your prediction on Sosa? It’s certainly a higher upside play than Yolbert Sanchez…but players numerous have had issues the last two seasons going from AAA to the bigs, let alone Birmingham to Chicago. That injury in theory doesn’t happen with the veteran Pollock more likely to take charge of the situation…versus someone new to the team and just trying to do whatever they possibly can to stick around and make an impression. … Honestly, it's difficult for me to project Sosa because the subset of his production that projects well is 60 games. How aggressive I want to rate those 60 games, given that it was an approach and swing change is TBD. Also have to account for the fact this was his first time ever repeating a level (unless we count Rookie ball), so that may mean it could take him a bit to get acclimated to the big leagues and immediate struggles aren't out of the question. I'll also say though that Sosa has been one of the most impressive producers in the minors this year; give his ballpark, his age and level. His ISO jumping to 218 is pretty significant, but more important than anything is the k-rate reduction. It'd be nice if he walked a bit more given that the walk rate likely dips a bit and the k rate will hike in the big leagues. Ironically enough, I think I'd be thrilled to get anywhere near current-year Danny Mendick production; although I find it more likely his OBP dips, power holds (Birmingham is a tough place to hit for power) and his k-rate hikes so you see a player in the 240 range with a 475ish slug. That said, I think his potential range of outcomes is massive given the adjustments he's made and the possibility that he unlocked something permanently that makes him a very good major league player. So in a way... I'm copping out a bit to the question because his development has been the opposite of linear and I'm not sure where the ceiling is at this point. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 unfortunately though I am pro Sosa on a long timeline, this is a legitimate jump. I don't know about a big jump here, but, worth a shot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zisk Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 I hope he has enough self confidence. He's making a big leap, and there will be some tough times ahead. It can be hard to keep focused on defense when you're having a golden sombrero day at the plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Deep Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 I hope the kid does great!! I do get this feeling that they maybe showcasing him for a trade at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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