Can the White Sox right the ship without making any major moves?

[PolishPrince34]

I understand might not get much for Harrison and I know Engle is hurt. They can be sweeteners in deals to help with teams benches in the fall. There would be a ton of teams still lining up for Giolito thinking they can fix him. Dodgers would be one of those organizations that need SP. We aren’t signing Giolito long-term. 

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, PolishPrince34 said:

I understand might not get much for Harrison and I know Engle is hurt. They can be sweeteners in deals to help with teams benches in the fall. There would be a ton of teams still lining up for Giolito thinking they can fix him. Dodgers would be one of those organizations that need SP. We aren’t signing Giolito long-term. 

You would have to pay to send Harrison somewhere. He is a DFA candidate if Eloy, Engle, and Moncada do come back. He’s a sweetener in the same sense arsenic is a useful coffee sweetener.

[Texsox]

6 minutes ago, PolishPrince34 said:

I understand might not get much for Harrison and I know Engle is hurt. They can be sweeteners in deals to help with teams benches in the fall. There would be a ton of teams still lining up for Giolito thinking they can fix him. Dodgers would be one of those organizations that need SP. We aren’t signing Giolito long-term. 

Tons of teams who think their pitching coach is better than Katz at specifically "fixing" Giolito? I don't share your enthusiasm. Financially for Giolito, having his best coach ever currently working with him, and him not performing, may damage his chances more than enhance them. 

You're right in that someone will take a chance on him, but I don't think it will be tons of teams. But it only takes one team to make an offer that he won't refuse. 

I agree with @Balta1701 that Harrison is the nasty tasting medicine you would need to sweeten to have a team take him. He's not the lagniappe in a deal. 

 

[Chimpton]

24 minutes ago, PolishPrince34 said:

I’d be looking to trade some of our players. Lynn, Giolito, Engle, Abreu, Harrison, Sheets, Cueto. Help the farm again and reload in the off-season. This team has so many flaws right now. Probably won’t happen. 

But seriously what would you get for most of those names? Some untried low end prospects would be all you would get for most of them, and if you lose Lynn and Giolito and Cueto then who would actually pitch in the rotation? I am all for change but the simple fact is that there are precious few trade chips left that would get a decent return other than names you would not want to trade.

[Snopek]

This team is in a weird spot. They’re approaching a crossroads, but I fully expect them to just park the car in the middle of the intersection.

I see the potential outcomes (in order from most to least desirable and, sadly, from least to most likely) as:

1) They find the dusty old book in the attic that contains the magic spell to make them healthy and good at baseball and they go on a tear

2) They fall far enough back in the standings to sell pieces or stand pat at the deadline, then go through a significant retooling in the offseason under a different GM

3) They continue to tread water, repeating phrases like “if we can get healthy,” while making some ill-advised trades that don’t move the needle one bit. Rinse, repeat, etc

[Chimpton]

6 minutes ago, Snopek said:

This team is in a weird spot. They’re approaching a crossroads, but I fully expect them to just park the car in the middle of the intersection.

I see the potential outcomes (in order from most to least desirable and, sadly, from least to most likely) as:

1) They find the dusty old book in the attic that contains the magic spell to make them healthy and good at baseball and they go on a tear

2) They fall far enough back in the standings to sell pieces or stand pat at the deadline, then go through a significant retooling in the offseason under a different GM

3) They continue to tread water, repeating phrases like “if we can get healthy,” while making some ill-advised trades that don’t move the needle one bit. Rinse, repeat, etc

Option 3 is most likely

[ChiSox59]

I think so.  But it is going to require 4 things:

1) Robert, TA and the rotation avoid major injuries.

2) Giolito remembers how to pitch.

3) Yoan Moncada is healthy and productive in the 2nd half.

4) Yaz has a solid 2nd half.  

Without those things, the ship is sunk. 

[pcq]

I predicted 78 wins for this illustrious franchise.

[Jack Parkman]

4 minutes ago, pcq said:

I predicted 78 wins for this illustrious franchise.

Seems about right. 

[ChiSox59]

6 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Seems about right. 

 

11 minutes ago, pcq said:

I predicted 78 wins for this illustrious franchise.

I will take the over. There is no way this team is playing under .500 ball with the remaining schedule.  That is literally a worst case scenario, which is the world Parkman lives in so not surprised to see you with that take. 

[Chimpton]

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

 

I will take the over. There is no way this team is playing under .500 ball with the remaining schedule.  That is literally a worst case scenario, which is the world Parkman lives in so not surprised to see you with that take. 

I know 78 may be a 'worst case scenario' but with the current available players this team is a .500 team even with the remaining schedule looking favourable, after all they just lost 4-0 to the Orioles.

[ChiSox59]

1 minute ago, Chimpton said:

I know 78 may be a 'worst case scenario' but with the current available players this team is a .500 team even with the remaining schedule looking favourable, after all they just lost 4-0 to the Orioles.

One game means literally nothing. But yes this team won’t make the playoffs if they continue to trot out bad players as half the lineup. They need to get a little more healthy. Chances are they will. Even if they don’t, they’re gonna play better than .500 ball ROS. 

[Jack Parkman]

19 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

 

I will take the over. There is no way this team is playing under .500 ball with the remaining schedule.  That is literally a worst case scenario, which is the world Parkman lives in so not surprised to see you with that take. 

They're not going to get healthy. They're going to have a crap lineup most nights. 

The bullpen is overworked and injured. The SP are cracking under the pressure of an offense that doesn't score runs. 

At least this year, this team is very ordinary. Maybe they can get back next year. I think some of the problems that individual players are having can't be fixed in-season. 

[ScootsMcGoots]

13 hours ago, hi8is said:

Fucking Joe.

Well that's not going to fix it either

[ChiSox59]

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

They're not going to get healthy. They're going to have a crap lineup most nights. 

The bullpen is overworked and injured. The SP are cracking under the pressure of an offense that doesn't score runs. 

At least this year, this team is very ordinary. Maybe they can get back next year. I think some of the problems that individual players are having can't be fixed in-season. 

How do you know that Moncada, Grandal, Bummer, Engel and even Eloy won't get healthy (ier)?  Not to mention the guys on the active roster that aren't clsoe to 100% - AV, Abreu, TA, Giolito, Kopech, Robert, Kelly.  You don't.  You're just assuming the worst, per usual.

The Sox have played 2 games under .500 with a fairly difficult schedule and have been injured AF.  The rest of their schedule is the easiest in the league.  The literally hard play any decent teams except the Twins/Guardians. The chances they play under .500 ball the rest of the way aren't very good, even if they don't get healthier, which is also unlikely.  

I will never convince you to not live your life under a raincloud, but saying they're gonna win 78 games is silly.  

[caulfield12]

They have a trend-line of being at .500 for nearly 110 games now.

They have a much worse RS/RA than even the lowly Orioles right now.

No team has underachieved so badly their preseason expectations…none of that’s going to be easily fixed because the odds of Grandal and Jimenez being back to normal are pretty danged low.  Moncada, maybe 50/50.  Then you have Giolito and the possibility of Hendriks’ elbow going at any time.

The team has been making the same fundamental mistakes for 2-3 years now.  They are what they are.

TLR isn’t going to change any of that in-season.

We have one pretty good coach in Katz (who’s losing his star pupil in Giolito from a psychological/confidence standpoint)…and one invaluable front office member in Paddy.

Anyone who has watched the Guardians and Twins knows they might be less talented (probably the Guardians), but they play so much more cohesively as teams and not individual collections of talent thrown together . They are almost impossible to beat at home (Sox well under .500) and they never give up until the last out.

It’s going to take another month before we have a handful of defensive plays to equal one game for Baltimore.  Robert, Anderson, McGuire and Harrison…Moncada when healthy, are the only plus defenders.  That’s not going to change either in the next 2-3 months.

Edited June 24, 2022 by caulfield12

[Snopek]

21 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

How do you know that Moncada, Grandal, Bummer, Engel and even Eloy won't get healthy (ier)?  Not to mention the guys on the active roster that aren't clsoe to 100% - AV, Abreu, TA, Giolito, Kopech, Robert, Kelly.  You don't.  You're just assuming the worst, per usual.

The Sox have played 2 games under .500 with a fairly difficult schedule and have been injured AF.  The rest of their schedule is the easiest in the league.  The literally hard play any decent teams except the Twins/Guardians. The chances they play under .500 ball the rest of the way aren't very good, even if they don't get healthier, which is also unlikely.  

I will never convince you to not live your life under a raincloud, but saying they're gonna win 78 games is silly.  

Genuinely curious what your reasoning is for believing they get/stay healthy. Luck evening out? Gut feeling? Exercising more caution with rehab stints?

It’s not exactly a hot take to assume they won’t get healthy.

 

[ChiSox59]

19 minutes ago, Snopek said:

Genuinely curious what your reasoning is for believing they get/stay healthy. Luck evening out? Gut feeling? Exercising more caution with rehab stints?

It’s not exactly a hot take to assume they won’t get healthy.

I think they will get "healthier".  I don't think they'll ever get to 100%.  They've lost significant time from lots of significant players ~45% of the way thru the season.  Its been close to about a 85-90% worst case scenario situation injury wise for the Sox to date.    If history repeats itself in the 2nd half, the Sox aren't making the playoffs. I do, however, think even if history repeats itself, they'll still win more than 78 games based on the schedule.  

[Chimpton]

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

One game means literally nothing. But yes this team won’t make the playoffs if they continue to trot out bad players as half the lineup. They need to get a little more healthy. Chances are they will. Even if they don’t, they’re gonna play better than .500 ball ROS. 

 Their record against other teams below .500 is 17-12 so you are right about some grounds for optimism but as for getting players healthy this season just seems cursed.

[ChiSox59]

4 minutes ago, Chimpton said:

 Their record against other teams below .500 is 17-12 so you are right about some grounds for optimism but as for getting players healthy this season just seems cursed.

Perhaps.  I don't think it is crazy to think we'll get more in the 2nd half out of Moncada, Yaz, Lynn, Eloy, Bummer and even Giolito than we got in the 1st half.  Those are 6 pretty key members of the squad that gave us very little to date.  

[Balta1701]

12 minutes ago, Chimpton said:

 Their record against other teams below .500 is 17-12 so you are right about some grounds for optimism but as for getting players healthy this season just seems cursed.

The bad news is - how much of that is specifically the Detroit Tigers?

The good news is they should have what, 13 left against Detroit?

[KrankinSox]

The answer is yes. This is sports. Of course they CAN turn it around. Will they? I don't know. Neither do you.

[ChetLemon77]

37 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Perhaps.  I don't think it is crazy to think we'll get more in the 2nd half out of Moncada, Yaz, Lynn, Eloy, Bummer and even Giolito than we got in the 1st half.  Those are 6 pretty key members of the squad that gave us very little to date.  

Exactly. injuries aside, too many key guys (in particular, Yoan, Yaz & Giolito) flat out underperforming. Unless this changes [not likely), we'll struggle to break .500. 

[ChiSox59]

15 minutes ago, ChetLemon77 said:

Exactly. injuries aside, too many key guys (in particular, Yoan, Yaz & Giolito) flat out underperforming. Unless this changes [not likely), we'll struggle to break .500. 

The careers of those players say it’s likely they do better ROS; not unlikely. 

[reiks12]

im a no on this, the injuries are too overwhelming for a team with 0 depth and farm system. Twins have been hit hard by injuries too but they have a revolving door of productive prospects coming up. Their system is very well coached, ours is a disaster.