The Grandal-Zavala-McGuire Conundrum

[ron883]

Zavala has been swinging the hot stick lately. McGuire has been himself, which isn't anything special. Grandal will be returning in the near future most likely. Zavala and McGuire don't have any options left. Who the heck do you keep?

[ChiSox59]

It is a bit of a conundrum but you probably have to keep Rees. He’s an ideal backup because he’s great at controlling the running game and is a pretty good all around catcher. Seby has been fantastic and clearly Tony likes him, but it’s a SSS and with a larger one last year he got exposed both offensively and defensively. His BABIP is also unsustainable and he’s 29. 

Seby less likely to get claimed than Rees imo, but he’d have to accept assignment to Charlotte since he’s been previously outrighted which he probably isn’t gonna do. In any event, I’m not too worried about because you still have Perez who is probably better than both longer term. 

Edited July 4, 2022 by ChiSox59

[oldsox]

And, what to do with Grandal, the elephant in the room.

[bmags]

2 minutes ago, oldsox said:

And, what to do with Grandal, the elephant in the room.

You keep using fantom DL stints imo

[Timmy U]

I would cross this road when we get there. Grandal does not seem close to coming back. When he does, he won’t be able to catch every day. 3 catchers is not a bad idea.  Maybe they will get rid of one of their many rh hitting corner outfielders.

[oldsox]

9 minutes ago, bmags said:

You keep using fantom DL stints imo

Don't understand your comment, Mags.

[CentralChamps21]

I'd keep all three catchers until Grandal proves he can produce at the plate and be effective behind the plate. There are still Burger, Sheets and Engel who can all be sent down, with only Eloy and Grandal left to come off the IL.

If Grandal shows he can hit and be an effective catcher, then you decide which of McGuire and Zavala you want to trade/DFA.

[Tnetennba]

Yaz looked pretty cooked before the IL stint to me.  Whenever he does come back he shouldn’t be the every day catcher IMO.  If he can still produce at the plate he can cram himself into the DH logjam, otherwise he’s a bench bat/emergency catcher.  But that’s a bridge we will cross if and when we get there. 

[ChiSox59]

22 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

I would cross this road when we get there. Grandal does not seem close to coming back. When he does, he won’t be able to catch every day. 3 catchers is not a bad idea.  Maybe they will get rid of one of their many rh hitting corner outfielders.

Pretty tough to carry 2 non catcher bench players with 26 man rosters. Not sure that is realistic for any more than a few days. Sounds like Yaz should be in rehab later this week, and back within 10-14 days. 

[ChiSox59]

12 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Yaz looked pretty cooked before the IL stint to me.  Whenever he does come back he shouldn’t be the every day catcher IMO.  If he can still produce at the plate he can cram himself into the DH logjam, otherwise he’s a bench bat/emergency catcher.  But that’s a bridge we will cross if and when we get there. 

There is pretty much no chance the Sox cut bait with Yaz catching regularly when he returns unless he physically can’t do it. Nor should they imo unless he comes back and sucks just as bad as before for the rest of the season. With a year of control left, gotta hope he finds 75% of the player he was less than 12 months ago when returning from the IL.
 

It’s not like the other options are fantastic. Hard to say Seby hasn’t earned some PT right now, but there is still some time to see that normalize before a decision is needed. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

31 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

I would cross this road when we get there. Grandal does not seem close to coming back. When he does, he won’t be able to catch every day. 3 catchers is not a bad idea.  Maybe they will get rid of one of their many rh hitting corner outfielders.

I probably agree with this one more than any other and the phantom IL comment although Grandal appears to be the most likely to continue his phantom performance.

Grandal has had knee, hammy and back issues so his reappearance may be longer than we realize (or shorter who the fudge knows).

You can't discount Seby SSS because it came at a time when the Sox really needed it just as you can't discount the contributions of Burger and (finally) Harrison and Sheets. Abreu has become Abreu again with less power. Robert is fine with (surprise) less power. Vaughn's been great and TA is being TA .

Pollocks been streaky, Eloy's been Eloy (MIA). Yoan's defense is good and he seems healthier now so maybe the bat can catch up.

Without actually saying it Pollock might be that RHH OF who has to go since he never should've been here in the 1st place if Hahn didn't have his head up his ass all off season.

Play Seby and sooner or later he will cool off and everyone can claim he is who we thought he was. Grandal hasn't really been missed all that much. Right now he's Keuchel but injured. A lot of our pitchers like pitching to Seby and McGuire. I'll take that and the hitters will just have to make up for the loss of the Grandal who used to be able to hit but is now a phantom.

Edited July 4, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[bmags]

19 minutes ago, oldsox said:

Don't understand your comment, Mags.

If he sucks you keep putting him on the injured list.

[Texsox]

30 minutes ago, oldsox said:

Don't understand your comment, Mags.

You don't need much proof to put a guy on the IL. Some teams will hide a player there. The ethics others can debate. 

[hankchifan]

2 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

It is a bit of a conundrum but you probably have to keep Rees. He’s an ideal backup because he’s great at controlling the running game and is a pretty good all around catcher. Seby has been fantastic and clearly Tony likes him, but it’s a SSS and with a larger one last year he got exposed both offensively and defensively. His BABIP is also unsustainable and he’s 29. 

Seby less likely to get claimed than Rees imo, but he’d have to accept assignment to Charlotte since he’s been previously outrighted which he probably isn’t gonna do. In any event, I’m not too worried about because you still have Perez who is probably better than both longer term. 

Reese being a lefty bat is a plus.

[CentralChamps21]

16 minutes ago, Texsox said:

You don't need much proof to put a guy on the IL.

Yet somehow Leury never ends up there.

[Tnetennba]

34 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

There is pretty much no chance the Sox cut bait with Yaz catching regularly when he returns unless he physically can’t do it. Nor should they imo unless he comes back and sucks just as bad as before for the rest of the season. With a year of control left, gotta hope he finds 75% of the player he was less than 12 months ago when returning from the IL.
 

It’s not like the other options are fantastic. Hard to say Seby hasn’t earned some PT right now, but there is still some time to see that normalize before a decision is needed. 

I don’t disagree.  He will play, and will probably still be awful, but I’d be surprised if they cut bait too.  I think it’s what they *should* as I think he’s toast, but that’s me. 

[chitownsportsfan]

nm

Edited July 5, 2022 by chitownsportsfan

[Texsox]

4 hours ago, CentralChamps21 said:

Yet somehow Leury never ends up there.

Leury seems to me as a guy that keeps himself in top shape. Just my opinion, but it seems to me he's worked his ass off to play baseball. I wish he had as much talent as a few of the guys on the team. 

[kitekrazy]

2 hours ago, Texsox said:

Leury seems to me as a guy that keeps himself in top shape. Just my opinion, but it seems to me he's worked his ass off to play baseball. I wish he had as much talent as a few of the guys on the team. 

His problem is he is bad at baseball.  It gets revealed the more he is out there.  I have no problem with him if he is used wisely.  He needs to be taken away from Tony.

[maxjusttyped]

7 hours ago, oldsox said:

And, what to do with Grandal, the elephant in the room.

Hope he comes back and hits better because they aren't finding a catcher with a .939 OPS like he posted last season anywhere else. I know Grandal has been brutal this year, but people writing him off because of 50 bad games (where he was almost certainly playing through an injury) when the alternatives are guys we *hope* can be slightly above replacement level doesn't make much sense to me.

[caulfield12]

5 hours ago, maxjusttyped said:

Hope he comes back and hits better because they aren't finding a catcher with a .939 OPS like he posted last season anywhere else. I know Grandal has been brutal this year, but people writing him off because of 50 bad games (where he was almost certainly playing through an injury) when the alternatives are guys we *hope* can be slightly above replacement level doesn't make much sense to me.

Watch them bring in the big name catcher in Willson Contreras and try to imagine him not flopping.

They're going to have to do something besides running it back out there again.

(See Twins' off season or Guardians investing $124 million in Jose Ramirez.)

Edited July 5, 2022 by caulfield12

[he gone.]

IMO a healthy Grandal is a key piece to the Sox winning a WS. He brings a balanced bat to the lineup and takes pitches. As long as Seby and McGuire continue to produce then it allows Grandal to keep healing and get healthier. Glad he's getting this opportunity and hopefully he can get through the ASB and we're still within 4-5 games of the division. 

 

The answer after? Probably goodbye Seby. 

[JoeC]

I hope we keep 3 catchers, though I'm not sure at whose expense

Grandal is also clearly a leader on this team. Hopefully he can find any of the magic he brought to the table in the second half of last year.

[Texsox]

7 hours ago, kitekrazy said:

His problem is he is bad at baseball.  It gets revealed the more he is out there.  I have no problem with him if he is used wisely.  He needs to be taken away from Tony.

In the world of MLB baseball he's bad.  Compared to every person on the planet, he's really, really, good. I also wonder how he would do with a steady on field and batting order positions. 

Where I really appreciate the guy is there are probably a few thousand people on the planet with better physical attributes. There are probably a few thousand people on the planet with baseball skills comparable to his. He has made a career by literally being willing to do most anything to stay on a roster. Iirc he's even given up 28 a couple times. 

He'll play any position, bat anywhere in the order, and gives 100% each time. He has to know he's being put in positions that the odds of him being successful are low, but never complains publicly, he just goes out and tries his best on every play. 

Like I said, I wish he had better physical abilities or we could graft his attitude and work ethic on a few guys. People boo him when they really want to boo JR, the front office, and Tony. 

 

[Tnetennba]

7 hours ago, maxjusttyped said:

Hope he comes back and hits better because they aren't finding a catcher with a .939 OPS like he posted last season anywhere else. I know Grandal has been brutal this year, but people writing him off because of 50 bad games (where he was almost certainly playing through an injury) when the alternatives are guys we *hope* can be slightly above replacement level doesn't make much sense to me.

That’s a mighty big *IF*.  Catcher in physical decline with continual lower body injuries doesn’t give me much hope he’s ever healthy enough to post similar numbers at the plate again.  Paul Konerko’s end of career cratering keeps coming to the back of my mind.