Rick Hahn - Mastermind of Failure

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said:

That's a lot of words to say (if true) Hahn is a coward who would rather cash a check than enjoy his vision of a winning baseball team. It's never been a position I find defensible from a fan's POV, although perhaps Hahn's kids appreciate it.

That's a few words to say that your expectations of a person ruining his professional career sooner than deal with something he doesn't like at work aren't realistic.

[chitownsportsfan]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

That's a few words to say that your expectations of a person ruining his professional career sooner than deal with something he doesn't like at work aren't realistic.

Ruining his career? Come on now. It's fine, Rick Hahn enjoys the prestige and paychecks more than he enjoy professional integrity and vision. But don't expect me as a fan to sit here and slurp that up.

[caulfield12]

The White Sox one niche advantage remaining after Herm Schneider left (overall player health) was/is the Cuban Connection.

And that has proven to be a vulnerability without the right manager to lead the simultaneously underachieving Moncada and Robert.

Those were going to be the two superstar anchors for the heart of the window…the Sox equivalent of Buxton and Correa.  They quite obviously now need a different voice to get through to them and push the right buttons motivationally or psychologically.  TLR is definitely not getting it done.  Then there’s Vera and Colas as well that were going to sustain the window past 2025.  Nobody seems to be guiding them…or at least getting through on a consistent basis.  The “smoke” around Colas is worrisome to say the least.  And Chris Getz seems to be more of an organizational guy in over his head than the leader that position demands.

We can blame the aging curve for Grandal as a catcher at that age, but the sad picture of a forlorn Abreu in the dugout after their fifth consecutive season loss to the Twins says it all.  With Hahn, you need look further than the failed pursuits of Machado, Harper, Wheeler, etc.  This a results-driven game, but there’s always an excuse or rationalization. The saddest thing is small market teams like the Twins and Guardians are even finding creative ways to keep and bring superstars into the fold while at three games under .500 in MLB’s weakest division we are now back to “mired in mediocrity” for the foreseeable future due to tapped out payroll and a floundering farm system with only two potential studs in Montgomery and Vera.

Edited July 6, 2022 by caulfield12

[ChiSox59]

10 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

I was a huge fan of the trade.  

My point was that Hahn and Williams like spending on bullpens as much or more so than LaRussa.

Kimbrel has shown this year that the second half of last year was probably not a fluke but the no pressure first half with the cubs was.

I'm a big Pollock fan so it kind of worked out in my mind although I had hope for Madrigal.

Are you still a big Pollock fan? I didn’t hate the trade because we got something that was projected to be useful out of it, though I certainly preferred a left handed bat. But he’s been dreadful outside a 2 week span in early June. 

[southsider2k5]

Just now, chitownsportsfan said:

Ruining his career? Come on now. It's fine, Rick Hahn enjoys the prestige and paychecks more than he enjoy professional integrity and vision. But don't expect me as a fan to sit here and slurp that up.

I would "expect" you do be able to separate out being a "fan" and the common sense of how to deal with adversity in a professional situation. No one asked anyone to like it.  Understanding it is pretty straight forward.

[Snopek]

19 minutes ago, hankchifan said:

Hopefully, JR does not bring in one of his octogenerians from his board of directors,

I’d say whatever one considers to be the worst case scenario will likely be on the table. At least that’s the way I’m approaching it.

[oldsox]

8 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

That's a few words to say that your expectations of a person ruining his professional career sooner than deal with something he doesn't like at work aren't realistic.

If Hahn were fired today, his career would not be ruined.

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, oldsox said:

If Hahn were fired today, his career would not be ruined.

Fired and quitting midseason are not the same thing.

[chitownsportsfan]

5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I would "expect" you do be able to separate out being a "fan" and the common sense of how to deal with adversity in a professional situation. No one asked anyone to like it.  Understanding it is pretty straight forward.

I see you're on your weekly pivot to yelling at Sox fans while defending the FO's honor. WTF man. Fandom has nothing to do with supporting a blue blood Harvard and UM grad that has run our favorite team into the ground. Fuck Rick Hahn's professional career he's ruined our favorite team again!

[southsider2k5]

Just now, chitownsportsfan said:

I see you're on your weekly pivot to yelling at Sox fans while defending the FO's honor. WTF man. Fandom has nothing to do with supporting a blue blood Harvard and UM grad that has run our favorite team into the ground. Fuck Rick Hahn's professional career he's ruined our favorite team again!

This has nothing to do with any of that, but sure.  Find more reasons to be mad about something that is pretty straight forward.

Do you quit your job every  time your boss does something you don't like?

[Kyyle23]

25 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I'm willing to close windows a bit early to make sure that nobody walks for nothing.  This is due to ownership's constraints on FA contracts. They don't get to pretend they're a large market team and go cheap on player contracts. I'm just working with Jerry's contract restrictions. 

Man I am NOT going down this rabbit hole with you where you try and break up your argument into little bitty pieces and explain the rationale for it all while moving every goal post.  I know you said it and so do you, and there was no qualifier

[bmags]

Ok so TLR is hamstringing Hahn on Major League acquisitions. What about the other parts of the job, what's the excuse for their PD and analytics that lag especially among playoff teams. Their underinvested in foreign scouting. Their underinvested in DR facilities.

They don't even scout SE asia.

I bet it's not his fault.

[caulfield12]

The funny thing is that Kenny Williams always believed in developing relievers internally, or finding them on the cheap.

If you look at all the closers or high leverage guys, like Howry, Foulke, Gordon, Takatsu, Hermanson, Jenks, Marte, Thornton, Crain, Santos…the only anomalies are Billy Koch (needed a classic fireballer) and the overreaction to 2007 led to Dotel and Linebrink after a slew of trades for big fireballing LHR’s and guys like Aardsma blew up.

But even then, you still at least got 2008 and 2010 out of it.

KW invested more money into starting pitching (see 2005-2010) than relievers…it was never such a pronounced imbalance or overallocation of budget like it has been under Rick Hahn.  And that really started with David Robertson and hasn’t let up since, not to mention drafting guys like Burdi and Crochet so high in the draft…and then basically having a cycle of drafts focusing heavily on collegiate “big arms” that looked ticketed primarily for pen roles.

[Harry Chappas]

12 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Are you still a big Pollock fan? I didn’t hate the trade because we got something that was projected to be useful out of it, though I certainly preferred a left handed bat. But he’s been dreadful outside a 2 week span in early June. 

Kind of.

I think in the two or nine  hole or leadoff he has value but not as a run producer.  Vaughn hitting singles in the two hole adds nothing as he doesn't walk much and has zero speed.

I think you now move Vaughan down in the order to drive in runs that hey are looking at Pollock to do 

The Anderson-Vaughan-Robert opposite field single approach is not working. 

[caulfield12]

16 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I see you're on your weekly pivot to yelling at Sox fans while defending the FO's honor. WTF man. Fandom has nothing to do with supporting a blue blood Harvard and UM grad that has run our favorite team into the ground. Fuck Rick Hahn's professional career he's ruined our favorite team again!

Anyone that followed the team through this entire debacle of offseason (let’s pat ourselves on the back fir not signing an injured Conforto)…even going back further to the TLR move…and blaming fans for not supporting the team needs to have their head examined.

The only rational thing to do for most middle or upper middle class families is to look at the current opportunity cost of attendance and weigh/balance that with hundreds of other competing entertainment options.  
 

Don’t forget Northwestern/Kellogg, btw.  Hahn is the anti-Quin Snyder…except he maintains that squeaky clean image to continue his memberships in the good ‘ol boys C-suite club box.

Edited July 6, 2022 by caulfield12

[Jack Parkman]

26 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Man I am NOT going down this rabbit hole with you where you try and break up your argument into little bitty pieces and explain the rationale for it all while moving every goal post.  I know you said it and so do you, and there was no qualifier

Every two years? No. Every 3-4 years like the A's do? Yes. That's just how long most windows last. Also, be willing to pull the plug if it's not working(see:2022 Sox) 

Ideally the Sox would run their team like Tampa/Oakland or spend like a large market team. All I want them to do is pick a lane and quit half assing everything. Ultimately, it's up to Jerry. 

I'm not arguing that I said that they should do a constant cycle of contention and rebuilds, because I did say that. 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[chitownsportsfan]

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

Anyone that followed the team through this entire debacle of offseason (let’s pat ourselves on the back fir not signing an injured Conforto)…even going back further to the TLR move…and blaming fans for not supporting the team needs to have their head examined.

The only rational thing to do for most middle or upper middle class families is to look at the current opportunity cost of attendance and weigh/balance that with hundreds of other competing entertainment options.  

Maybe we can start a GoFundMe so Hahn can feed his family and resign.

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Maybe we can start a GoFundMe so Hahn can feed his family and resign.

It’s working well for that 27 year Burger King employee who got the insulting thank you appreciation package of movie tickets and a Starbucks cup, etc., after never missing a day of work or being late over all that time.

Hahn has to be at close to 20 years if not longer, right?

Btw, that particular GFM was at $300,000+ last time I checked…probably mid $300k’s by now.

Edited July 6, 2022 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

3 hours ago, Harry Chappas said:

I am all for firing Tony LaRussa but is this roster and organization really set up to win multiple championships?   Tony is a failure but is he the only one? 

I view this organization as floundering.  They hit on enough prospects to stay afloat because they play in the worst division in baseball.

The fact that this organization cannot succeed in the AL Central is embarrassing.  There is no large revenue team in this division yet the White Sox struggle to win 82 games in this division.  The Indians and Twins are organizations that will do enough to succeed more times than not and the Royals and Tigers will have decent years.  The White Sox could be the worst run of the five. 

Maybe Hahn did win the three big rebuild trades and if so, great, but he has done nothing to build upon that.  He handed out contracts to unproven players that now look like terrible deals.  He built  a roster that has flaws and then placed a coaching staff around them that exasperated these flaws. 

Maybe Williams and JR are still running things and Hahn is just the mouthpiece.  If so, nothing is changing.  Maybe TLR is calling more shots in regard to player signings than we thought and if so makes Hahn even more irrelevant.

Sadly I don't see anything changing.  The carrot remains out there.  I renewed a 20 game plan and after SF I began chasing it again.  Now I foolishly walk away with it swinging on the stick for another week or two when I maybe think about them again.

I personally watched Tanner Banks blow a huge lead earlier this season and if that was not bad enough I the first ever 8-5 triple play. All while watching a singles offense try and generate runs without walking or hitting any extra base hits.

This organization is a shit show.   

But he injuries yes the injuries.  They will happen and happen again the players they have invested in are injury prone.  Moncada, Jimenez, Robert, Kopech and Anderson.

Maybe Abreu has realized this and that is why he is ready to leave.  Maybe he looks at this team and realized it is floundering and while he busts his ass day in and day, half the roster is told to take it easy and not really try to hard because you are injury prone.

What an epic failure. 

 

 

Couldn't agree more. There is no question Rick is a smart guy, but there are plenty of smart guys that can't build championship baseball teams, and he has proven it many times he's one of them.  Everything you wrote is true. How can they blame injuries when the same guys get hurt every year?  

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Couldn't agree more. There is no question Rick is a smart guy, but there are plenty of smart guys that can't build championship baseball teams, and he has proven it many times he's one of them.  Everything you wrote is true. How can they blame injuries when the same guys get hurt every year?  

Because their fans and owner buy that excuse.

[caulfield12]

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Couldn't agree more. There is no question Rick is a smart guy, but there are plenty of smart guys that can't build championship baseball teams, and he has proven it many times he's one of them.  Everything you wrote is true. How can they blame injuries when the same guys get hurt every year?  

One thing they most assuredly won’t do is throw a boatload of money at Theo Epstein.

Need to find the baseball equivalent of Brad Stevens…who understands the game from both a coaching as well as management/front office perspective.

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, joemg311 said:

Maybe TLR just slides over to GM when he can no longer physically be the manager?

That is a demotion. He is already Manager and co-GM, will want to be President, a title never bestowed to Kenny.

He can also name an “interim” manager to do the grunt work, and continue to rack up managerial wins while sitting at home in Arizona.

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, mmmmmbeeer said:

I don't think we can really evaluate Hahn's performance without knowing how much pull he/TLR actually have.  

Do I think Rick wanted to resign Leury?  No.

Do I think Rick wanted to spend his budget on the bullpen?  No.

Do I think Rick wants Sosa in the minors right now so we can watch Leury?  No.

There are just too many moves being made this season that clearly show that there's a COMPLETE disconnect between the FO and TLR, Sosa's short stint being example 1A.  Tony loves a bullpen, thus the bullpen pieces.  Tony loves Leury, thus the Leury signing.  Tony pus handedness above all else, thus Gavin, Leury, and Reese taking starts away from guys like Pollock, Vaughn, and Harrison.

All that said, if Hahn has truly been relegated to nothing more than a puppet GM, he should quit.  The fact he remains implies he either has a direct hand in this decisions or he thinks he'll outlast TLR's reign.

Hahn is the architect of this roster. Hahn also thinks he has done a great job the past decade, with the possible exception of Tatis Jr..

Hahn had no 2B, RF, starter depth, relief depth or organizational depth before Tony arrived, and has only doubled downed on his obstinance and obsession of overpaying for end of career players.

TLR has input, but Hahn has failed at nearly every aspect of his job. He remains here, like Gar/Pax remained,  because Jerry doesn’t fire his preferred cronies, well since that one time in 1986 when he allowed Hawk to do the one right thing Hawk did as GM that year.

[oldsox]

Years ago I said here that I would love to have been the proverbial fly on the wall during the Tatis trade negotiations, just to see how Preller outsmarted our guy.  Now, same thing with the Leury extension negotiation.  You just know that Leury would take one year at $5 or 5.5 million.  So they agree, but then Hahn says "How about two years?"  Okay, sure, thanks, Rich.  "Well, Leury, how about three years at $15ish?"

I'm still shaking my head at both scenarios.

[Soxfest]

Hahn giving Leury a 3 yr deal when nobody else was even wanting him past 1 yr was ludicrous.

Edited July 6, 2022 by Soxfest